1. #3541
    Stood in the Fire JV Chequer's Avatar
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    The problem about BBoY it's the boss xD

    The heroic one it's useless for progression, so probably we will use KTT or BBOY depends which one we get first with higher ilvl, but indeed the BBOY now looks better than KTT with both in the same ilvl.

    PS: I'm really glad that BBOY or any trinket have Trinket this tier. Damn, Wushy just make me sad when seeing all the hit.
    Last edited by JV Chequer; 2013-08-30 at 02:41 PM.

  2. #3542
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    adjust with immolate then ?
    could be interesting as some argue about simple/new spell/no dot argument

    make immolate a longer dot (agony like) which is buffed by haste with shorter ticks, no issue for pvp as it is dispeled and more dps for pve single target and in a way aoe if adds have big hp pool

  3. #3543
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sster View Post
    make immolate a longer dot (agony like) which is buffed by haste with shorter ticks
    It already does this. All DoTs do this with more haste.
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  4. #3544
    The CB buff is going to be about a 4-5% gain to the spec based on napkin math (and itemization/spec choice/etc). That combined with immolate's 1%'ish buff may not be enough to bring it up to par its at least a start. I'm guessing destro will now itemize around a mastery > crit > haste setup. This is to leverage the CB buff plus on fights where you'd use destro as a niche its for shadowburn sniping/cleaving which is also mastery fueled.

    I'd like to see immolate treated more like a mage bomb/dot. That is to say a minor glyph that makes it instant but removes the up front damage tick and maybe extends it 3 sec on the backend. Just a playstyle change... Similar to the philosophy on a minor glyph to swap 30% haste vs 30% crit on backdraft.

  5. #3545
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    The CB buff is going to be about a 4-5% gain to the spec based on napkin math (and itemization/spec choice/etc). That combined with immolate's 1%'ish buff may not be enough to bring it up to par its at least a start. I'm guessing destro will now itemize around a mastery > crit > haste setup. This is to leverage the CB buff plus on fights where you'd use destro as a niche its for shadowburn sniping/cleaving which is also mastery fueled.

    I'd like to see immolate treated more like a mage bomb/dot. That is to say a minor glyph that makes it instant but removes the up front damage tick and maybe extends it 3 sec on the backend. Just a playstyle change... Similar to the philosophy on a minor glyph to swap 30% haste vs 30% crit on backdraft.
    They didnt increase mastery's effectiveness for destro, just a base damage increase for chaos bolt. I see no reason why Mastery's value would grow from this change, it only seems to warrant an increase in Crit and Haste, to generate more embers, to cast chaos bolts, which now do more damage . I'm not saying you are wrong or right with mastery being a strong/strongest stat but your reasoning for why it should be seems flawed.
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  6. #3546
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    They didnt increase mastery's effectiveness for destro, just a base damage increase for chaos bolt. I see no reason why Mastery's value would grow from this change, it only seems to warrant an increase in Crit and Haste, to generate more embers, to cast chaos bolts, which now do more damage . I'm not saying you are wrong or right with mastery being a strong/strongest stat but your reasoning for why it should be seems flawed.
    I would think it's simply because:

    Chaosbolt's overall damage was increased, mastery increases damage as a percentage, the higher the damage chaosbolt does, the more potent mastery becomes point for point.

    This is not to say it makes mastery more desirable vs. haste & crit, just that it makes mastery better than before.
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  7. #3547
    A lot of the situations where destro was used it was due to ember consuming spells...thus mastery is your strongest secondary stat. Pretty sure destro faceplants its haste scaling between losing RoF and hitting the GCD w' incinerate like a short girl's cervix. Crit has always been the weakest in terms of scaling at high levels though as I mentioned above I see it coming in second. My reasoning for favoring mastery is anywhere that's pure single target you are NOT going to be using destro. Aff and demo will make a mockery of its numbers regardless of the latest change. To get the most from CB (already our best scaling source of dmg) you would focus on mastery and crit. Since the SoO fights where destro is possibly viable are that way due to shadowburn sniping/cleaving its best to focus on mastery more than crit. Also the 4xT16 set crit bonus has an ICD so faster ember generation doesn't scale off the set bonus while bigger spending per ember does (assuming you time it correctly). Thus mastery > crit > haste.

  8. #3548
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    I would think it's simply because:

    Chaosbolt's overall damage was increased, mastery increases damage as a percentage, the higher the damage chaosbolt does, the more potent mastery becomes point for point.

    This is not to say it makes mastery more desirable vs. haste & crit, just that it makes mastery better than before.
    Wouldn't dropping RoF from the rotation also serve to reduce the value of Haste? As it's one less damage source/ember generator that's benefitting from the stat.

  9. #3549
    maybe a passive ability "cataclysm" (old 5 point-talent) for 5% extra crit for destruction?

    Immolate design is very very old, need an istant cast like fire shock

  10. #3550
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Wouldn't dropping RoF from the rotation also serve to reduce the value of Haste? As it's one less damage source/ember generator that's benefitting from the stat.
    RoF was practically the only thing that gave any value to Haste.

    The only discussion now is whether Crit or Mastery is best, and (while I'm waiting for more changes, and thus haven't done a ton of theorycrafting for 5.4 yet) I don't anticipate Haste being good whatsoever.

    With the crit from set bonuses it may be that Crit is for single target, while Mastery is for everything else. (Hunch) That's assuming we even go for set bonuses. /shrug

  11. #3551
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    When does rain of fire start becoming viable? 2 targets? 3?
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  12. #3552
    I'm wondering if I should be using the legendary meta gem at all. I'm thinking no.


    That will suck to swap in and out for Affliction/Destro.

  13. #3553
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    When does rain of fire start becoming viable? 2 targets? 3?
    Is it really not a DPS gain in single target ?
    - Its DPET is superior (according to Simcraft)
    - It still yields more embers (0.25 emberbit per tick in my last test, around 2 emberbits per cast)
    The only drawback is the very high mana cost, for a somewhat limited gain over incinerate.
    I will test the ember gain again if the PTR servers come back.

    Edit: hey wadup GC? I'm just kidding
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-08-30 at 04:46 PM.
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  14. #3554
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    When does rain of fire start becoming viable? 2 targets? 3?
    Im guessing 2 Targets but I would also really like to know if anyone has a confirmation on this.
    I could probably go test this for myself, but anyone know if its worth Dropping a rain of fire on Movement V an extra Fel Flame?
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  15. #3555
    Quote Originally Posted by icedlight View Post
    I cant see that working. I think they could Bake in a bonus ember gain during the 10 sec's of MF's extra damage or they could work in pet ember bit gains (1 tick per pet crit).

    They cant just toss Ember regen back into single target or they will wind up being hypocrites. Increasing ember regen on single target would cause issues with FnB.

    They could mess with ember regen on conflags that might help a bit.

    I liked Werst's idea of a minor glyph for conflag to switch the benefit to crit over haste but too late (again) to test that idea.

    Most of the idea's worth testing in fact could not be implemented now but some light buffs on a few spots could still go a long ways.
    I believe that if conflagrate always critted we could save some dps while moving. The reason I believe this is the fact that we will lose dps on the move because of the nerf of KJC. Now I also know the cons of having conflagrate always crit, it would be like WOTLK Ulduar when locks burst were so insane that many locks died because of aggro. It would also be a problem in pvp because of the same reasons but there are many burst classes that are already in pvp so one more wouldn't hurt.

    I read on another forum that blizzard is giving us a 15% buff to chaosbolt but I am not sure if it is true or not. Here is my take on if that were to happen. A 15% buff is cool and all but without the ember regen from ROF, we still lose the maximum amount of CBs. To fix this there should be a cast reduction on chaosbolt or simply take away the embers and put in place a molten core proc for soulfire but instead for chaosbolt like it was back in the WOTLK hybrid spec. Though I am not really happy with the 15% "buff" it still is a move in the right direction and shows that they want to fix destro. The main problem for them is trying to balance it for pvp, but with that said, destro is already nerfed in pvp because of the simple fact of KJC being nerfed. How can one cast chaosbolt without moving if the enemy is attacking him/her while the lock has remain still in order to cast. Less Chaosbolts in pvp and pve doesn't seem as if it is the best thing for the destruction spec.

  16. #3556
    my two cents:

    aoe clunkyness: all spells under FnB effect generate 100% more ember bits.
    movement issues: immolate instant cast (i´ve been asking for this since wotlk). CB reduced cast time .5 secs.
    pvp issues: buff conflagrate 30% +-

    i would elaborate more on the details but i´m a bit tired and trying to explain the reasons of that in english would exhaust me right now.

    Excuse my bad english, but it´s better than your spanish or catalan.

  17. #3557
    So can we talk about how Fel Flame is still a better filler than Incinerate? I feel like they missed that one.

  18. #3558
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    So can we talk about how Fel Flame is still a better filler than Incinerate? I feel like they missed that one.
    Shhh..

    It lets us use AD all the time

  19. #3559
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    Shhh..

    It lets us use AD all the time
    It's not like if KJC prevented you of being bumped by a giant sawblade while casting a 2M5 Chaos bolt anyway
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  20. #3560
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    It's not like if KJC prevented you of being bumped by a giant sawblade while casting a 2M5 Chaos bolt anyway
    Wellllll....

    Fine, be pessimistic :P

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