Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Dr. Wuky]

Interesting. You guys know that Simcraft doesn't set DoTs with Wushoolay/Black Blood at 9/10 stacks, do you? You have to add that in Simcraft and then it is pretty clear that Wushoolay H/HTF (and the better Wushoolay aka Black Blood of Y'Shaarj) is much much stronger then ULVS (and most of the SoO N trinkets + ofc it would be a win/win situation if ULVS proccs with 9/10 stacks wush, but that happens maybe once or twice every 100 proccs).

-> Wushoolay and Breath sould be used as the 5.4 trinkets (ofc before SoO upgrades).

[EvreliaGaming]

Interesting. You guys know that Simcraft doesn't set DoTs with Wushoolay/Black Blood at 9/10 stacks, do you? You have to add that in Simcraft and then it is pretty clear that Wushoolay (and the better Wushoolay aka Black Blood of Y'Shaarj) is much much stronger then ULVS (and most of the SoO trinkets + ofc it would be a win/win situation if ULVS proccs with 9/10 stacks wush, but that happens maybe once or twice every 100 proccs).

-> Wushoolay and Breath sould be used as the 5.4 trinkets (ofc before SoO upgrades).

I had Gahddo run the sims (who maintains the Warlock simcraft) and he added that logic into the action list for this testing, as well as other logic like DoT with 3+ stacks of wush + breath if breath is about to fall off, etc.

[Dr. Wuky]

I had Gahddo run the sims (who maintains the Warlock simcraft) and he added that logic into the action list for this testing, as well as other logic like DoT with 3+ stacks of wush + breath if breath is about to fall off, etc.

Then please post the results from wush&breath vs ulvs&breath and tell me how you did on the PTR with ULVS, if you tested it at all. Wush is btw proccing ALL THE TIME on the ptr (okok, every ~30s).

[EvreliaGaming]

Then please post the results from wush&breath vs ulvs&breath and tell me how you did on the PTR with ULVS, if you tested it at all. Wush is btw proccing ALL THE TIME on the ptr (okok, every ~30s).

It does seem to proc a lot idd, I did one test with Wush + Black Blood and had insanely good results, but with the random nature of PPM you can't really extract any results from them whatsoever, sample size is way too small. I just did a test with wush + breath in game and had one Wush proc on pull and then nothing for the next 3 minutes. Such is the nature of RPPM.

My experience with UVLS on the PTR mirrors my statements above. It procs consistenly on or near the pull and the pull burst is higher with UVLS than with the other combinations, but it's entirely down to RNG from that point on. As said above Breath + Wush is a safer choice overall (assuming no ilvl discrepancy), and is likely what I will be using, but to everyone saying UVLS is a horrible garbage trinket, it is not.

Will ask Gahddo for the postable results when he gets on.

[Dr. Wuky]

It does seem to proc a lot idd, I did one test with Wush + Black Blood and had insanely good results, but with the random nature of PPM you can't really extract any results from them whatsoever, sample size is way too small. I just did a test with wush + breath in game and had one Wush proc on pull and then nothing for the next 3 minutes. Such is the nature of RPPM.

My experience with UVLS on the PTR mirrors my statements above. It procs consistenly on or near the pull and the pull burst is higher with UVLS than with the other combinations, but it's entirely down to RNG from that point on. As said above Breath + Wush is a safer choice overall (assuming no ilvl discrepancy), and is likely what I will be using, but to everyone saying UVLS is a horrible garbage trinket, it is not.

Will ask Gahddo for the postable results when he gets on.

I didn't say that ULVS is garbage, I just said that Wushoolay is stronger (and it is stronger because of the higher RPPM). Also ULVS doesn't work with the DoT dmg mechanic of MG & DS (the extra ticks doesn't have a 100% crit chance, even if the "true" dots have 100% via ULVS and if I rembember correctly even if you cast MG/DS with ULVS up, they don't crit with 100%).

And Black Blood + Wush (or bindings) would be my BiS choice for T16 Heroic (Black Blood and Wush always procc at the same time on the pull or with a 2-3sec delay).

[Deleted]

It does seem to proc a lot idd, I did one test with Wush + Black Blood and had insanely good results, but with the random nature of PPM you can't really extract any results from them whatsoever, sample size is way too small. I just did a test with wush + breath in game and had one Wush proc on pull and then nothing for the next 3 minutes. Such is the nature of RPPM.

My experience with UVLS on the PTR mirrors my statements above. It procs consistenly on or near the pull and the pull burst is higher with UVLS than with the other combinations, but it's entirely down to RNG from that point on. As said above Breath + Wush is a safer choice overall (assuming no ilvl discrepancy), and is likely what I will be using, but to everyone saying UVLS is a horrible garbage trinket, it is not.

Will ask Gahddo for the postable results when he gets on.

im assunming this is on test dummies, as tests during ptr normal/hc tests would be tainted due to the whole gear scaling thing that makes your trinkets proc insanely over the top when they get scaled up from 549ish to 560 ilvl

[EvreliaGaming]

I didn't say that ULVS is garbage

I know you didn't, some others did :P

[Dr. Wuky]

im assunming this is on test dummies, as tests during ptr normal/hc tests would be tainted due to the whole gear scaling thing that makes your trinkets proc insanely over the top when they get scaled up from 549ish to 560 ilvl

You know, only ULVS RPPM scales with iLvL, the other trinkets have a fixed RPPM.

[Werst]

I finally got a hydra this last week but otherwise have either a UVLS or Chanye (both at 543ilvl...550ilvl overall). I know in theory UVLS+hydra is stronger over 10K iterations but I'm almost tempted to go chanye/hydra for the consistency with aff. That said I'd probably go for the bindings + hydra since I plan on going aff/demo. So far no luck trying to convince people to do ToT up to council for HC/HTF wush runs... Demo, esp on council fights, I might try UVLS + hydra though I'd swap that UVLS out for bindings in a heartbeat.

I run w' eng + herbalism on a troll so opener is huge and 60/120 sec surge favors the bindings more than the total RNG setup. Thoughts?

[Deleted]

i only got wush N 2/2 and UVLS tf 2/2 coz we never killed the appropriate bosses on hc, im assuming with these 2 trinkets i should pretty much grab any and all ilvl 553 trinkets i can get my hands on, replacing UVLS tf first in my case?

[Sylvestra]

Does anyone have a BiS list for affliction, for 5.4 obviously

[Woz]

Does anyone have a BiS list for affliction, for 5.4 obviously

There is a full thread for this with quite a number of options you can with for gearing.

[Deleted]

Does anyone have a BiS list for affliction, for 5.4 obviously

well its fairly easy to do that yourself, just go on wowhead, head for their ptr area, make it show the list of each of the various cloth slot item and take all pieces with haste/mastery you can or any other items with mastery on it.

[Woz]

I know you didn't, some others did :P

It is a decent trinket coming out of the gate but once you get T16 2P its value goes from decent to really bad (because the 2P will be up more than often enough without it) and is basically a stat stick with 1800 or whatever int.

[cabana]

I'm not advocating anything, I'm simply stating facts. What you do with that information is up to you. The UVLS + Breath combination will, on average, offer slightly higher DPS, but the variance will be a lot higher and is probably not worth it. As I very clearly said there and in my other posts.

Your logic is flawed though btw. If that were the case we'd just always take the trinket that procced the most regardless of how good the proc was. I also wouldn't say progression is always based around consistency.

I'm speaking specifically Wush v. UVLS. Not all trinkets ever. If you don't think progression is based solely consistency and reaching to the point you wiped at and improving each and every time then you have zero room to talk about raiding at all.

[EvreliaGaming]

I'm speaking specifically Wush v. UVLS. Not all trinkets ever. If you don't think progression is based solely consistency and reaching to the point you wiped at and improving each and every time then you have zero room to talk about raiding at all.

Often that's the case, but not always (hence the use of italics). Obviously you've never progressed on an extreme dps check fight where you consistently wipe on 0.5% until you get that amazing perfect rng pull or praying for good fire mage rng. Also I don't think there's need for the aggressive tone.

[Deleted]

Do you think Wush HTF would be better than toxic totem NM (affli)?

[EvreliaGaming]

Do you think Wush HTF would be better than toxic totem NM (affli)?

I don't think so.

[Deleted]

I'm speaking specifically Wush v. UVLS. Not all trinkets ever. If you don't think progression is based solely consistency and reaching to the point you wiped at and improving each and every time then you have zero room to talk about raiding at all.

Eh, the second part is really not true, especially for truly top-end guilds. They don't need hundreds of pulls to become consistent in handling mechanics and damage, they need them to get one pull with excellent handling and a bit of luck.

I don't think any guild in the world ever killed a hard boss in the way you described, ''reaching to the point you wiped at and improving each and every time''. Sometimes you wipe sooner and sometimes later, it's not at all impossible to have a wipe at 0,5% and then the next 10 pulls go wrong and you wipe well before that.

I don't disagree with the statement that consistent DPS is almost always better than slightly higher average DPS with way more variance though.

[cabana]

Didn't it take Blood Legion over 400 attempts for Lei Shen. They need hundreds of pulls. So it is especially true for top-end guilds.