1. #4201
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Don't really see the point of the kneejerk destro offspec, there was already almost no reason to go demo this entire tier so... basically still no reason to not be aff even more so now.

    Demo was gonna be great for thok and... that's it.
    Not sure what planet you are living on. Demo has been used in more world first kills than affliction by a fair margin. Why? Because it was the better progression spec.

  2. #4202
    Demo has been the go-to for heroic progress indeed and pulling very sick numbers.

    Agree with the UVLS nerf, just too strong for demo, and possibly affliction too. Definitely too strong for aff if you can roll a 10-stack Wush + meta crits across multiple targets (Hi Protectors/Garrosh). However, I do not agree with the imp nerf, makes no sense as the UVLS nerf effectively caps imp numbers and will push people towards SoO trinkets.

    Affliction Haunt nerf kind of surprised me. Good single target but rogues and BM hunters up our ass, multi-target has a higher skill cap and you aren't exactly haunting the shit out of everything.

    Very sad to see Demo hit so hard - highest skill cap of all the specs imo and now it won't be rewarded. So happy I managed to pick up BBoY last night now...

  3. #4203
    Quote Originally Posted by Xdenek View Post
    Very sad to see Demo hit so hard - highest skill cap of all the specs imo and now it won't be rewarded.
    Personally i dont really see that the ceiling for Demo is that high in all honesty, especially when you have UVLS.

    Glad the trinket got nerfed because atm it is currently grossly overpowered for affi and demo (demo more so ofc)

    On a different note - 10 heroics down this week destro on all, only fight i wasnt top on was protectors, still dont have 4 part. (10 man)

    Also playing destro without high haste (less than 2k) on thok without any issues.

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  4. #4204
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    Personally i dont really see that the ceiling for Demo is that high in all honesty, especially when you have UVLS.
    UVLS makes the spec easier? Heh. Right.

  5. #4205
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    Personally i dont really see that the ceiling for Demo is that high in all honesty, especially when you have UVLS.

    Glad the trinket got nerfed because atm it is currently grossly overpowered for affi and demo (demo more so ofc)

    On a different note - 10 heroics down this week destro on all, only fight i wasnt top on was protectors, still dont have 4 part. (10 man)

    Also playing destro without high haste (less than 2k) on thok without any issues.
    Playing Demonology absolutely perfectly is probably over 100 APM. As far as "decisions per second", it's probably around there or higher as well. The skill ceiling is in the micro. If you never tried it, then you wouldn't see it.

  6. #4206
    To the 2 above, way to derail the thread, Demo is incredibly forgiving when you have UVLS because 100% crit dooms grant you so much fury the spec plays much much much faster than its intended to so yes i do believe from my own personal experience that it makes the spec easier to play.

    But debating my personal demo skill is not really the point of the thread.

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  7. #4207
    I swear blizz had 2 ways to "fix" demo and put both in. Its about as toxic as 2x different nurses overdosing someone in their care....

    3% to destro isn't major but its something...again just sort of props up its aoe. For the record blizz could have made destro scale way better a few different ways but they seem to have a thing about putting in buffs that help more at the high end pve that are less pvp centric. EG glyph to swap backdraft cast speed redux for crit, conflag CD reduced by haste, etc. How much haste is a destro lock going to have anyhow in pvp?

    Its basically a forcefeeding of affliction mainspec to beat enrage timers or anything that's a numbers check (malkorok heroic) and we can OS destro for when we can't make aff's mechanics work at the cost of faceplanting our damage. Shame the two specs are so incompatible itemization wise. Demo and aff could at least cohabitate well at 9778'ish haste > mastery > crit.

  8. #4208
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    To the 2 above, way to derail the thread, Demo is incredibly forgiving when you have UVLS because 100% crit dooms grant you so much fury the spec plays much much much faster than its intended to so yes i do believe from my own personal experience that it makes the spec easier to play.
    Hmm. I get where you are going with this but, the problem is the reasoning. The reason why UVLS makes the spec so unforgiving is the entirety of the spec is centered around the trinket and its proc. If the stars align properly and the proc goes off when you want it to, boom to the top of the meters. The problem is you can just as easily get crapped on by the proc...see the following post from a different thread when discussing this very issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gihelle
    The trinket proc rates may have been more reliable with a H+ version (sadly I ended the tier with only a normal UVLS), but the heart of the matter is, WHEN did it proc, not how often.

    - Right before a rampage on Megaera/next set of heads spawn.
    - While you're on Ji-kun's nests.
    - Right after a phase transition on Qon, when the boss itself is no longer targettable.
    - Right after Suen despawns during Twins p1.
    - During transitions on Lei Shen.

    Those are all moments where, if the trinket procced, it would be essentially wasting it's full potential. If you were going to parse on a fight on later Tier 15, you NEEDED to have well-timed trinket procs. It wasn't JUST a matter of keeping Doom up in 1 target. Not having trinkets proccing at the exact time (IE none of those moments mentioned above) meant your DPS would EASILY fluctuate a lot. And that's something that you had absolutely NO control of.
    Nerf the trinket, I think everyone is fine with that. The problem is that trinket and the times the stars aligned are the only time the spec truly shined. Adding a nerf on top of the trinket change is not needed, I wouldn't be totally surprised if a buff was in order to make up for the loss of the trinket.

    (And I mean reverting the imp nerf and adding a buff).
    Last edited by Arrogant Bastard; 2013-09-24 at 07:24 AM.

  9. #4209
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    To the 2 above, way to derail the thread, Demo is incredibly forgiving when you have UVLS because 100% crit dooms grant you so much fury the spec plays much much much faster than its intended to so yes i do believe from my own personal experience that it makes the spec easier to play.

    But debating my personal demo skill is not really the point of the thread.
    Wasn't derailing, wasn't attacking you. I'm talking about warlocks in a warlock thread, and stating a fact about skill ceiling. Believe what you will.

  10. #4210
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard View Post
    Nerf the trinket, I think everyone is fine with that. The problem is that trinket and the times the stars aligned are the only time the spec truly shined. Adding a nerf on top of the trinket change is not needed, I wouldn't be totally surprised if a buff was in order to make up for the loss of the trinket.

    (And I mean reverting the imp nerf and adding a buff).
    I don't think anyone disagrees with the Imp nerf being overkill I know I don't.

    @Kurosaki: how viable do you think going Destro low-haste for 25H progression would be? Destro is sadly, really what I'm good at, my latency cripples Affliction considerably. All the good Destro locks I've seen, are on 10.
    Last edited by Gihelle; 2013-09-24 at 07:30 AM.
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  11. #4211
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    on 25 adds die to fast generally

    fantastic blizzard again changed all the specs/way to play during the patch, so everyone has to change, ONCE AGAIN.
    specs are not compatible anymore
    dps was good not op , and now is average

    gg.

  12. #4212
    I already go Destro on 25 for a couple fights (H Immerseus, Spoils, Garrosh), and the spec seems to perform pretty well in those.

    I'm more speaking about the more ST-only fights (like IJ and Malkorok).
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  13. #4213
    Quote Originally Posted by Gihelle View Post
    I don't think anyone disagrees with the Imp nerf being overkill I know I don't.

    @Kurosaki: how viable do you think going Destro low-haste for 25H progression would be? Destro is sadly, really what I'm good at, my latency cripples Affliction considerably. All the good Destro locks I've seen, are on 10.
    Absoloutely no where near as viable as it is in 10 man, you also really need to have the 4 part to see destro's real power.

    The problem with Destruction in 25 man imo (and id personally ask zum for his opinion on 25) is that 25 is very centered on passive multi dot and single target nuke or adds just getting ko'd - Destro struggles in both of these scenario's imo.

    On the other hand once we have gear from this tier destruction will pick up considerably because of stuff like BBoY for chaos bolts / Immersus duration and cd lining perfect with dark soul / 4 part being literally insane.

    For now though in 25 destruction would be a lot harder to justify than what it is in 10 man.

    The biggest strength destruction has in 10 man is KJC and Fire and Brimstone - This combo is literally insane with high crit and mastery.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-09-24 at 07:43 AM.

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  14. #4214
    Maybe I'll give it a whirl once I get 4p, thanks
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  15. #4215
    If I add the 30% to Immolate, Destruction sims at 275k and Affliction at 273k for me with a few haste gems. Using KTT 567 and Bindings 561 for both specs (Wush sims lower as Affli, don't know why). I'll personally not go Destro for single target because then I would have to change all of my gems, but it does seem like Destro will be viable for more than AoE heavy fights.

  16. #4216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    If I add the 30% to Immolate, Destruction sims at 275k and Affliction at 273k for me with a few haste gems. Using KTT 567 and Bindings 561 for both specs (Wush sims lower as Affli, don't know why). I'll personally not go Destro for single target because then I would have to change all of my gems, but it does seem like Destro will be viable for more than AoE heavy fights.
    Fire and Brimstone is ridiculous haha oh and they buffed immolate to sooo.. yeah PAINFUL

  17. #4217
    I'm so happy that my group saw 0 conq tokens in 2 full clears and my extra rolls are basicaly glorified gold bags

  18. #4218
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    To the 2 above, way to derail the thread, Demo is incredibly forgiving when you have UVLS because 100% crit dooms grant you so much fury the spec plays much much much faster than its intended to so yes i do believe from my own personal experience that it makes the spec easier to play.

    But debating my personal demo skill is not really the point of the thread.
    Increased fury generation doesn't always translate to using fury well.

  19. #4219
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    To the 2 above, way to derail the thread, Demo is incredibly forgiving when you have UVLS because 100% crit dooms grant you so much fury the spec plays much much much faster than its intended to so yes i do believe from my own personal experience that it makes the spec easier to play.

    But debating my personal demo skill is not really the point of the thread.
    If you get a good amount of nicely timed procs, the trinket will carry you. If you don't, you will seriously struggle to make up for it.

  20. #4220
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    September 23 Patch 5.4 Hotfixes in short.

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