1. #421
    I just don't get these people saying thy want to return to turret mode. In pvp its impossible as it is with kjc, to chase down a flag carrier or healer with the 30% snare. Ive been waiting all this time for them to remove the snare not remove mobility... even in arena all people have to do is pillar hump and you can do NOTHING to stop them or get uptime on them.litterally all you have to do in pvp is run away from the lock and he is screwed. This change will compound that fact.
    every other class has far too much mobility now or like mages the ability to remove that mobility almost completely. As others have mentioned hunters can move and cast freely as can ele shammies with a myriad of instant procs etc that we do not have. in arena even fake casting doesn't help esp when the other team can shove 4 interrupts silences and stuns down your throat. At least with kjc you can TRY to do some cc or dps while trying to reposition yourself. The chaos bolt nerfs have left destro only incinerate worth using and even then for laughable dmg with no pressure. Its like the people posting want locks to be worthless and are justifying them being made worthless simply because they want to roll over them even more on their mains. I like lock lore and play style though im not fond of the current form of affliction thanks to soul shard starvation( haven't played aflic since green fire patch ) Now I know many arena snobs dnt consider rbgs or bgs to "Matter" but for some of us they really matter and I just don't see anyone wanting to take locks to rbgs after this patch we will be the new retpally/arms wars. I can see no reason to continue playing lock after the change other than a martyr complex or these guys who seem to think being a "diehard noble loyal lock for life means more than my own kids lves o be alock yeh!!!" types.
    As you can see this is my first post here and its only because im so pissed off at this.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    while I believe you're referring to the old Nightfall, I'm adamant against (bringing) this (back) for warlock. If I wanted to do that, I could play my mage.. or my spriest.. or my moonkin.. or my shaman..
    Yes, i am referring to Nightfall, and i don't want it back either - but having cool stuff (KJC) is apparently a crime, so i guess we have to be like everyone else.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    actually.... demo is far more forgiving on the gear front than affliction ( except for the UVLS part obviously ). Demo becomes better earlier, and becomes even more better later.

    With out hoping to sound like a complete lock noob, don't play affliction have always felt it was boring, even back when I started in vanilla, but what does UVLS mean?

  4. #424
    I will say it again. Go to the official forums. Make blizzard feel how much you hate this. If you put enough pressure on them you might be surprised what will happen. And trust me there is a lot of hunter stuff that is happening to us that we are not happy about and blizzard keeps hinting that there might be more nerfs and changes to us. Just keep app;lying pressure thru the right channels.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by NytemareRulez View Post
    With out hoping to sound like a complete lock noob, don't play affliction have always felt it was boring, even back when I started in vanilla, but what does UVLS mean?
    Unerring Vision of Lei Shen.. it's a trinket that has a chance to proc 100% crit for 4 seconds

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 07:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitagethethird View Post
    I will say it again. Go to the official forums. Make blizzard feel how much you hate this. If you put enough pressure on them you might be surprised what will happen. And trust me there is a lot of hunter stuff that is happening to us that we are not happy about and blizzard keeps hinting that there might be more nerfs and changes to us. Just keep app;lying pressure thru the right channels.
    Thing is as bad as mmo-c forums can get sometimes, it is a Mensa convention compared to the official forums.. which go largely ignored by the devs anyway. Sad thing is if you really want your voice heard (by the devs) you're better off harassing their twitter accounts.

  6. #426
    The reason 99% of the afflock community used KJC was that the may they married dots and fillers this expansion you need to be constantly channeling or you don't keep up. Dots themselves became less relevant and act more like debuffs for the channeled effects. PVP is its own mess but its also a base issue of damage mechanics making channeling necessary. Otherwise you try to balance pvp on the "old" dot model of powerful dots doing the work but balance pve against dots + fulltime filler. That really isn't a doable thing.

    KJC with a haste penalty was too weak, current generation is too good due to it being a necessary crutch for mechanics. Unless devs want to significantly alter the damage balance of aff (which would bring back multi dotting "issues") there isn't a good fix. Before if you were running around your dots did some work on their own. Now that isn't the case so much.

    The third issue with KJC is comparing to the mobility other casters/ranged have. Destro and Ele are very similar in terms of a single dot nuke spec. Especially if we aren't using RoF rotationally, which meant a GCD you could use while on the move, destroy faceplants when it has to move. Ele keeps a spammable no penalty mobile filler, has to cast its big stuff, and has some instant procs.....oh and it also gets a CD to use anything. I think that is a better model for destro. Look at hunters with powershot being an uninterruptable chaosbolt that can be instantly chained with chimera and aimed procs. (hunter pvp vs lock pvp stats anyone?) TLDR...we need KJC to be mobile no penalty fillers with the CD working on everything. Or just give us mobile fillers baseline and let lvl 90 not matter if "its just too good" but the class needs it....at least outside of demo.

  7. #427
    What if MF would also increase damage done by AOE spells like 15%, then it would be AoE damage CD and very attractive.
    Last edited by esatikkane; 2013-06-15 at 12:13 AM.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by esatikkane View Post
    What if MF would increase damage done by AOE spells like 15%, then it would be like AoE damage CD and very attractive.
    That would make MF our new defacto go to talent in any spec if there was any AoE to be done. It's a direct power increase, compared to what it is now, just a field of use increase.
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  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    That would make MF our new defacto go to talent in any spec if there was any AoE to be done. It's a direct power increase, compared to what it is now, just a field of use increase.
    So it would be situational talent. If you look Mage L90 talents they are all direct power increases, so I don't see anything wrong with that.

  10. #430
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Considering that blizzard wants to remove Rain of Fire from our single target rotation, I doubt making MF increase the damage of RoF will ever happen.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Considering that blizzard wants to remove Rain of Fire from our single target rotation, I doubt making MF increase the damage of RoF will ever happen.
    I meant have the 1.5min cooldown and 15 sec duration like it's now in the PTR and the spell would be "increases area of your AoE spells by 500% and damage by 15% when used. I don't see how this would affect RoF unless RoF would make more dps than other filler spells when this is used.

  12. #432
    Why does everyone keep calling for casting filler (in terms of affliction) while moving? If that was implemented affliction would almost be stronger than it was before. Haunt/UA can easily be stutter stepped creating very few problems in that department, and then you would be running around casting MG/DS while moving at full speed rather than snared. Destruction would be relatively balanced with movement filler (akin to elemental shamans), but a different solution would be needed for affliction (in my opinion).

    I do not agree with the KJC nerf, or its timing (mid expansion) but I think we have to be realistic here.

    Any "fix" that does not involve reverting KJC to its current state has to go through Fel Flame in my opinion. Which is a rather lackluster spell for all 3 specs, at best filling a small niche and at worst being a dps loss.

  13. #433
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
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    I just don't get these people saying thy want to return to turret mode.
    good positioning in the arena made a big difference will you pass the 1550 bracket. current kjc is too forgiving and promotes bad play

    I can see no reason to continue playing lock after the change other than a martyr complex or these guys who seem to think being a "diehard noble loyal lock for life means more than my own kids lves o be alock yeh!!!" types.
    I allready saced my kid to summon an infernal

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    good positioning in the arena made a big difference will you pass the 1550 bracket. current kjc is too forgiving and promotes bad play
    No, current KJC is needed because without it we're sitting ducks in PvP. We're already sitting ducks once our CD's are down. Every melee has way too many gap closers, so unless you're able to exploit LoS/Z axis with portals, you're screwed.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    ahhh and looking at the icons for our tier gear, I am disappointed yet again.
    Helm
    Shoulders
    Chest
    Gloves
    Belt

    Throughly disappointed =.=
    Share your feelings, I see they gave the better looking part of our tier to the crap pvp set

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian9 View Post
    Why does everyone keep calling for casting filler (in terms of affliction) while moving? If that was implemented affliction would almost be stronger than it was before. Haunt/UA can easily be stutter stepped creating very few problems in that department, and then you would be running around casting MG/DS while moving at full speed rather than snared. Destruction would be relatively balanced with movement filler (akin to elemental shamans), but a different solution would be needed for affliction (in my opinion).

    I do not agree with the KJC nerf, or its timing (mid expansion) but I think we have to be realistic here.

    Any "fix" that does not involve reverting KJC to its current state has to go through Fel Flame in my opinion. Which is a rather lackluster spell for all 3 specs, at best filling a small niche and at worst being a dps loss.
    The more realistic suggestions have MG/DS castable on the move but with a flat -significant- snare (50%) or a slower channel (making it less desirable to channel on the move, but not a dps loss on the DoTs themselves like fel flame or 5.0 KJC would be) and someone even came up with the suggestion of making MG frontloaded (heavy damage but high mana cost from an initial projectile [with travel time] but drastically reduced per-tick cost).

  17. #437
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think the best solution would just be adding a damage reduction on KJC and excluding cc from it while keeping it as a passive. Either in a way that whenever you pick KJC as a talent, all your spells deal say 5% less damage, think lightning bolt. Or whenever you move between a spell, the damage of the spell gets reduced by say 30%, for a channeled spell that would be till the end of the channel.

  18. #438
    I don't think anyone would take it if you put a damage reduction on it.
    Limiting it's scope DOES sound simple, elegant, easy to implement and worth taking.
    Just let it affect Incin, MG and whatever pleases Demo.

    OR better yet, since everyone will still take that talent, make it baseline.

  19. #439
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Well, considering we have a pet as well, you have to think: is a 3% dps loss worth it to have the ability to move and cast or not. On a movement little fight probably not but you still have the option to jump all over the place for a minor dps loss. On a movement heavy fight on the other hand, chances are you'll lose more dps by not being able to move.

    It's about making the decision if you need it or not, not because it's clearly better than the rest for any non-aoe fight.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Well, considering we have a pet as well, you have to think: is a 3% dps loss worth it to have the ability to move and cast or not. On a movement little fight probably not but you still have the option to jump all over the place for a minor dps loss. On a movement heavy fight on the other hand, chances are you'll lose more dps by not being able to move.

    It's about making the decision if you need it or not, not because it's clearly better than the rest for any non-aoe fight.
    This becomes a slippery slope in regards to talents themselves, in that they were already starting to feel "meaningless" in terms of defining your character in MoP. You already had people switching talents every encounter and I really would rather things not continue to slide in that direction.

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