1. #441
    Patch Notes:

    Warlocks fun factor nerfed by 700%

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    good positioning in the arena made a big difference will you pass the 1550 bracket. current kjc is too forgiving and promotes bad play



    I allready saced my kid to summon an infernal
    I don't want to be mean, but I don't really care to see the entire Warlock-PVE completely screwed up because of high-end PVP. PVP is a side game, PVE is the real game and making PVE changes because of PVP is the tail wagging the dog.
    Garrosh: "LOK'TAR! HAVE A HAMBURGER."


    I am The Burning Legion - Play Free Online Games

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    This becomes a slippery slope in regards to talents themselves, in that they were already starting to feel "meaningless" in terms of defining your character in MoP. You already had people switching talents every encounter and I really would rather things not continue to slide in that direction.
    I don't think they are becoming meaningless, but they are situational. They always have been really. It's just that now there is less bloat in the talent trees and the act of changing them is less arduous.


    It seems that Blizz is afraid of GOOD talents. If you give us choices...one will be the best. We will gravitate towards that.
    How do they respond to popular talents?
    Nerf bat. Ruining something that was good or had a purpose.
    How should they respond?
    Create an environment or challenge that makes the other talents attractive.

    Just get rid of talents. Give us the tool box you expect us to have and lets get on with it already.

    Several fights in Cata showed how flawed being dependent on a pet was. Hey here's an option to go petless when needed.
    People liked it? Nerf.

    Hey we took away all your instants and most of your cc's? Here is an option to move with a cost.
    People liked it? Nerf.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-06-15 at 05:57 PM.

  4. #444
    so many people saying kjc change is a debuff good warlocks will not have a problem with this all it does is change the mobility of a warlock

  5. #445
    yeah cause mobility isn't important or anything.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    I don't think they are becoming meaningless, but they are situational. They always have been really. It's just that now there is less bloat in the talent trees and the act of changing them is less arduous.
    This is probably a difference in philosophy, but I disagree.

    Should some talents excel in some situations above others? Well yeah, that's gonna happen no matter what. What I boisterously oppose are talent and encounter design decisions based on the supposition or even the expectation that talents will be switched from one encounter to the next. What's the point of even -having- talents then?

    I didn't mind terribly the switch from trees to tiers as yes, the trees -were- riddled with bloat and yeah, there were a finite set of "right answers" when it came to choosing talents, but I chalk that more up to poor design than an inherent flaw in the system. The tier model is easier to work with (design-side) and still gives you a decent degree of character customization, so the change to it didn't really bother me. What DOES bother me is that it so effortless to switch between talents now that it kinda doesn't mean anything anymore.. there's no "investment". That, and that even though tiered talents are easier to design for than treed talents, they STILL can't get it right, hence this whole debacle now.

  7. #447
    I don't know man, I certainly don't feel any lack of investment in my character.

    Here's the tool box, here's the job.

    Choose the tools that suit your stye the best. In this way they can give us a good deal of variety in encounter design.

    For example, think of the cool encounters we could have if everyone could move.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    I don't know man, I certainly don't feel any lack of investment in my character.

    Here's the tool box, here's the job.
    ..but see, if everyone has the same toolbox and it's just a matter of turning a dial to one of three settings at any given time, then what's the point?

    Choose the tools that suit your stye the best. In this way they can give us a good deal of variety in encounter design.
    The problem is it's becoming less about your own style and slipping into "right answers" again, because encounter design is getting lazy in that "oh, well they can just spec into X for this".

    For example, think of the cool encounters we could have if everyone could move.
    ...which is more an argument for making movement baseline

  9. #449
    Just design featured pve encounters that involve the KJC mechanic for all classes to experience. Don't short change Locks to the point that we start seeing those dramatic fallouts we saw in recent years.

    The whole spin around pvp (where so many pve nerfs are born) has several points and counterpoints. I don't even know where to begin. However, after 10 years of play, I've come to know that it's not so much about balance as it is about privilege when we're talking about top classes and their respective genre.

    The proposed change to MF is going to have to evolve.

  10. #450
    It is a bit sad that every one is going nuts about the KJC change, while, as someone who plays all three spec, I think the MF nerf is hurting us far more.

  11. #451
    I think this is the problem with Blizz and also why they are losing so much subs.. They forgot that a game should be fun, and that we play a game to have fun... For instance they gave us dailies and made them almost mandatory. They became chores instead of content. And no one likes doing chores, so people cried and some left. This is just one example, there are many.

    Now, they are changing Locks and looking at the general opinion, making them much less fun (an opinion which I share) because that fun part of the gameplay goes against their philosophy. Their main philosophy should be making the game fun. Otherwise subs will keep droping and the game will get worse and worse.
    Locks have been casting on the move for 2 patches, and it wasnt gamebreaking. It didn't make locks overpowered on its own (other mechanics did, we have it in 5.2 and we aren't OP dps-wise) and it was fun, it was a game style we've all come to love. So why the hell nerf it? Things were good, they're just going to make the class much less fun and we don't even have mechanics to help not losing a huge amount of dps while moving... This is just a stupid nerf. MF too. They're nerfing it just so it doesn't become the obvious choice. What the hell kind of design is that? Lock devs have no idea what they're doing (that idea is reinforced by the haunt castable on the move change, utterly useless). Besides, when Blazing Speed wasn't taken by mages, they changed it right away and made it more atractive. Then they say there's no bias? yeah right.


    BTW: I am in no way saying that blizz should keep OP shit in the game just because it is fun. All I'm saying is that if something makes the game better (i.e. more fun) and it isn't gamebreaking, Blizz shouldn't remove it just because their fucking thick skulls think any other choice is better and aren't open minded enough to understand that things are fun the way they are and that is the sole reason why we play a specific class, and this game.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    Lose 10% damage reduction. Hurts.

    Gain free Howl of Terror. Great stuff.

    KJC no longer slows movement. Pretty nice. Seems to now have a cooldown though?

    Kinda hope the new Shadowflame talent reduces move speed by 70%. The cooldown is pretty long.
    Its nice we got shadowflame back. But now with howl of terror baseline I can now use both that and shadowfury as destro so thats nice.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by ykza View Post
    Their main philosophy should be making the game fun. Otherwise subs will keep droping and the game will get worse and worse.
    The thing is that they are trying to keep the game fun for the other classes as well, and for melee who stand to lose ground in the ever existing arms race (both in PvE and in PvP). Blizz has many things to concider. I'm not saying nerfing KJC was the right option, but I understand where it's coming from. The game needs to be fun for everyone, and our fun was not balanced enough to their liking compared to the problems it caused for other classes.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  14. #454
    They're not nerfing KJC.

    They're making it better.

    Know the difference between a Nerf and just a Change.

    Now if they kept the slow in the active form, yes it would be a nerf.

    But since they removed the slow, kept the cooldown rather short (compared to similiar class abilities) and duration long, it's not a nerf.

    Stop whining.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by justinmccray111 View Post
    They're not nerfing KJC.

    They're making it better.

    Know the difference between a Nerf and just a Change.

    Now if they kept the slow in the active form, yes it would be a nerf.

    But since they removed the slow, kept the cooldown rather short (compared to similiar class abilities) and duration long, it's not a nerf.

    Stop whining.
    Going from 100% to 14% uptime is a nerf.
    Having yet another ^$#@! button to have to push is a nerf.

    That you equate these to the removal of the 15-30% snare is puzzling.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Szarala View Post
    Going from 100% to 14% uptime is a nerf.
    Having yet another ^$#@! button to have to push is a nerf.

    That you equate these to the removal of the 15-30% snare is puzzling.
    Haviing 100% uptime with 30% speed reduction compared to 15 seconds with normal speed with a small cooldown.

    Yeah thats not a nerf..

    Its puzzling that you think it's a nerf.

    you dont need 100% uptime on this talent.

    All it did was made warlocks lazy.

  17. #457
    where exactly is this snare killing you to think of its removal as this great bonus that offsets everything else?

    It can't be pvp, where 70% movement still beats the hell out of the 0% otherwise.. that is of course assuming you weren't already snared for worse by whatever almost any other class has done to you.

    Is it raids because you don't know how to game the debuff? Or don't recognize when simply not to move (or not to cast) as to not trigger it during pushbacks or other times when you otherwise need 100+% movement?

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by justinmccray111 View Post
    Haviing 100% uptime with 30% speed reduction compared to 15 seconds with normal speed with a small cooldown.

    Yeah thats not a nerf..

    Its puzzling that you think it's a nerf.

    you dont need 100% uptime on this talent.

    All it did was made warlocks lazy.
    How does having to have better reaction time make ppl lazy ? Moving slower but still being where you need to be, and not being where you shouldn't ... yeah, lazy
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  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by justinmccray111 View Post
    Haviing 100% uptime with 30% speed reduction compared to 15 seconds with normal speed with a small cooldown.

    Yeah thats not a nerf..

    Its puzzling that you think it's a nerf.

    you dont need 100% uptime on this talent.

    All it did was made warlocks lazy.
    Going from 100% uptime to 14% uptime is a massive massive nerf
    30% speed reduction is irrelevant, it was always irrelevant, hence why everyone took it and hence why they are nerfing it

    I understand their decision because of design reasons and because I know they'll compensate warlock one way or anoither, but dont be deluded, what is happening to KJC is a massive nerf, it's a borderline deletion

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    The thing is that they are trying to keep the game fun for the other classes as well, and for melee who stand to lose ground in the ever existing arms race (both in PvE and in PvP). Blizz has many things to concider. I'm not saying nerfing KJC was the right option, but I understand where it's coming from. The game needs to be fun for everyone, and our fun was not balanced enough to their liking compared to the problems it caused for other classes.
    Really? We already are useless at keeping melee away even with KJC! Even with KJC we are mediocre at PvP and we aren't really dominating PvE atm. Every class should be able to cast on the move and be balanced around that. The people you hear complaining about casting on the move are Spriests and boomies and they do it because they can't do it. Give to everyone, make the game better.

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