Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Rife]

Moving some MG damage into dots and Haunt is just going to make multi-dotting stronger while maintaining the need to channel MG during a buffed Haunt even more than now which means if you're moving when trinkets proc you're pretty much fucked. I also don't understand while they're decreasing the duration and CD of KJC to 10 seconds when our main procs last 20 seconds.

[fluffhead]

If this happens they should make filler spells castable while moving and make a glyph of chaos bolt which allows use while moving

[Arrogant Bastard]

I think you read a different blue post then I did

or maybe I'm focused on the Destro implications.

quick and decisive decisions =/= good decisions

Agreed.

Maybe till will turn out for the best, I am not counting on it. How can they fix this? Increase the ember generation of Incinerate or Fel Flame drastically? How will that help when you have to plant for a 2+ second CB? Give some sort of instant CB proc? Doubtful. The problem with this entire mess is it has huge yet different implications for PvE/PvP. Could you imagine the uproar of instant CB's? Not to mention the fact that if I wanted to play a Fire Mage I would be.

Moving some MG damage into dots and Haunt is just going to make multi-dotting stronger while maintaining the need to channel MG during a buffed Haunt even more than now which means if you're moving when trinkets proc you're pretty much fucked. I also don't understand while they're decreasing the duration and CD of KJC to 10 seconds when our main procs last 20 seconds.

My thoughts exactly. For those that do not enjoy Affliction you're going to be forced into Demonology unless some massive changes come to Destruction. They would need to nearly overhaul the entire spec to keep Destruction viable.

[The Penguin]

Starting to think someone needs to go to Blizzcon and explain the problem to Ghostcrawler in person. His eyes apparently can't read computer text, and he must think Warlocks aren't real people or something. Could they not of just left it well enough alone and given all Casters it baseline? Geezus. So much for not gutting a class mid-expac. This is his revenge on Xelnath prolly.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Starting to think someone needs to go to Blizzcon and explain the problem to Ghostcrawler in person.
His eyes apparently can't read computer text, and he must think Warlocks aren't real people or something.


Posted by Lore:


Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.


Could they not just leave it well enough alone and give all Casters it baseline? Geezus. So much for not gutting a class mid-expac.
This is his revenge on Xelnath prolly.

I laughed when I saw the words slight-rework.

Instant cast to 1.5 second cast
Castable on the move
No longer extends the duration of DoT's
Damage buff

Yeah, that is not a slight rework.

[Nicola]

I laughed when I saw the words slight-rework.

Instant cast to 1.5 second cast
Castable on the move
No longer extends the duration of DoT's
Damage buff

Yeah, that is not a slight rework.

Ahahaha, rofl, are they even serious?
"So I have this idea, lets turn Fel Flame into a shittier version of Scorch, I bet warlocks will love it..."

here's the full post

Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.

Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.

Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...pt-3/#post2202

[PickleballAce]

Appreciate that they're working on Fel Flame, but I definitely don't care for making it a cast time spell. We don't need to be even more susceptible to interrupts..


They seem to think that making it a "mobile casted" spell like Scorch is some big gift but.......dude, we can already cast it on the move now!

[Mormolyce]

Breath of Guldan is just old Shadow Flame reworked with a smaller area. If they didn't take the damage out yet, they will soon.

I hope they do take the damage out, last thing I want is that is my single target rotation.

Also sometimes you want to snare low level mobs without 1-shotting them.

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 02:37 AM ----------

Ahahaha, rofl, are they even serious?
"So I have this idea, lets turn Fel Flame into a shittier version of Scorch, I bet warlocks will love it..."

Yeah well I don't like to whine about KJC, knew that was OP, but I can't say I understand what they're doing with Fel Flame. Why not just buff its damage a bit? I get the no-longer-extends dots part given that that never worked properly. But giving it a cast time just makes it even more awkward.

See Scorch actually plays nice with the Fire Mage rotation given it can proc abilities, this ability has no obvious niche. Other than something to spam while moving, which suits an instant better...

[WarlockJack]

I can't believe they're doing this much shit to a class in the middle of an expansion... what a joke. Ok, so SAY we're overpowered, etc... cant you just adjust a few more small things to compensate and then rework everything for the next expansion? If you let it function THIS long, it surely isn't going to break the game to just finish out the xpack. 1.5sec fel flame totally fixed this mess. yeah. *rolls eyes*.

[Netherspark]

I really, really, really do not like Fel Flame having a cast time. I don't see the need either, it should just stay as a low dmg instant spam.

PVP wise it will fuck us completely - Fel Flame deals Shadowflame damage so getting interupted will lock out ALL actions.

PVE wise it just feels horribly awkard. I know Blizzard think it's giving us "more utility" but it's also taking it away. Instant casts have many uses outside of standard raid encounters. It's replacing one useful ability with a slightly less useful one...

[evertonbelmontt]

This is BULLSHIT. Simple like that.

They don't even the slighest idea on how warlocks work. We NEED fel flame as it is. We NEED something instant to kill totems or low level mobs or any other thing you can think on. Changing it into a cast time will be even worse than KJC change. Less impacting, but worse, imo. What about demo meta conversion of fel flame, also?

[Deleted]

This has some pretty sketchy implications for destruction.

1563 to 1727 (+ 154% of SpellPower) - Incinerate (current)

1250 to 1450 (+ 125% of SpellPower) - 5.4 Fel flame (Rough Numbers)

930 to 1102 (+ 83.7% of SpellPower) - Scorch (current)

762 to 841 (+ 75% of SpellPower) - Fel Flame (current)

Lets say haste keeps 'close' to its value in 5.4 (i can see this happening due to our set bonus's giving crit buffs)

1. You are going to be above 30% haste pretty much all the time in 5.4, this is a problem because destro already has a 1 sec Gcd, this spell is going to be stupid clunky under bloodlust / meta gem

2. This spell would need to almost have no mana cost for destruction or at low gear / haste levels you would actually never want to use this unless it was effected by backdraft (this would be a HUGE nerf to our damage)

3. The made up spellpower number is where i think it would need to be to even be usable especially when you consider that scorch procs !pyro and the current incarnation of fel flame is silly weak. (I dont think they will buff it that hard)

4. Ability to lock us out of both schools of magic? (HUGE pvp problem here)

5. Lets imagine for a second this spell was instant cast, it would solve the pvp side but it isint a very elegant solution to 'spam' fel flame while its instant cast in pve and the problem is that if it was buffed that hard it would be like using incin while not actually casting.

I like the idea blizzard has but Destruction is going to have to get such a big revamp on ember regen this patch that i really feel we could end up like a very different class in 5.4 and although i do believe its a bit silly to have a rip of scorch as our fix i like that we will get another spell that will be 'useful' in the rotation, i do feel however that without any sort of proc tied to it that we would be better off just having incinerate and immolate castable while moving.

Quick Edit - Also if they dont buff FF that hard tbh they could just remove the mana cost for all specs, buff it to like 100% of SP or something and just let it be there for when we cant cast anything else, they are really really overcomplicating this imo.

[Mormolyce]

I can't believe they're doing this much shit to a class in the middle of an expansion... what a joke. Ok, so SAY we're overpowered, etc... cant you just adjust a few more small things to compensate and then rework everything for the next expansion? If you let it function THIS long, it surely isn't going to break the game to just finish out the xpack. 1.5sec fel flame totally fixed this mess. yeah. *rolls eyes*.

This is really not a lot of changes.

This is BULLSHIT. Simple like that.

They don't even the slighest idea on how warlocks work. We NEED fel flame as it is. We NEED something instant to kill totems or low level mobs or any other thing you can think on. Changing it into a cast time will be even worse than KJC change. Less impacting, but worse, imo. What about demo meta conversion of fel flame, also?

Actually good point, I use it a lot when I get aggro from low mobs while doing Arch as well...

[WarlockJack]

This is really not a lot of changes.

Actually, yes it is. "A lot of changes" does not require a lot of individual changes to adjust the entire dynamic of the class and therefore change "a lot" of things.

[Deleted]

One thing I hate is that most of the most vocal whiners are PvP players. I personally don't think this game should be balanced around PvP at all, It should be "sidegame". PvP has terrible balance and its impossible to balance all classes and it has no serious eSports competition so it should mostly be for fun, not anything serious.

And I don't get this, why do we need Fel Flame to kill low level mobs? Doesn't all instant spells work for that purpose like hellfire or RoF/Conflagrate? I don't know how you play wow if you need to spam Fel Flame to kill lots of low level mobs. And destruction was already worst spec in higher ilvls because of worst scaling, sure it was best on some bosses because of mechanics, but otherwise not. I'm sure they will buff the ember generation to compensate for loss of RoF.

And why do people see problem with this Fel Flame rework for PvE, does it matter if its "shittier version of Scorch"? Our playstyle will change a little, now we cast Fel Flame when we move, ooh big deal. Only thing that should matter is that if our damage drops drastically and we will suddenly be bottom of the meters and I don't see that happening. We were by far best class in this current tier, you cant expect to be best class always. If you rerolled to lock just because of KjC then i feel bad for you and now you should reroll to some other class instead.

[Szarala]

One thing I hate is that most of the most vocal whiners are PvP players. I personally don't think this game should be balanced around PvP at all, It should be "sidegame". PvP has terrible balance and its impossible to balance all classes and it has no serious eSports competition so it should mostly be for fun, not anything serious.

And I don't get this, why do we need Fel Flame to kill low level mobs? Doesn't all instant spells work for that purpose like hellfire or RoF/Conflagrate? I don't know how you play wow if you need to spam Fel Flame to kill lots of low level mobs. And destruction was already worst spec in higher ilvls because of worst scaling, sure it was best on some bosses because of mechanics, but otherwise not. I'm sure they will buff the ember generation to compensate for loss of RoF.

And why do people see problem with this Fel Flame rework for PvE, does it matter if its "shittier version of Scorch"? Our playstyle will change a little, now we cast Fel Flame when we move, ooh big deal. Only thing that should matter is that if our damage drops drastically and we will suddenly be bottom of the meters and I don't see that happening. We were by far best class in this current tier, you cant expect to be best class always. If you rerolled to lock just because of KjC then i feel bad for you and now you should reroll to some other class instead.

You really don't see the problem in suddenly having NO instant damage, PvE or PvP? Or hell, just simply for FUN (which, though times may have changed, I thought was the point of a game)?

[Deleted]

Ugh, I'm glad they're reacting and at least trying to do SOMETHING about it, but once again we seem to be getting shown how much needs tinkering to get a few changes to work, and these new changes just bring up more problems.

Fel Flame having a cast time sounds like it's going to be yet another burden in pvp, I'm also not sure how I feel about having no instant cast damage as affliction - when we've seen mechanics like the Direhorn spirit etc, I know any cast works on the spirits, but I'm worried what will happen if we get situations like that in future and we need to actual deal damage instantly. It'll make killing low level stuff a little more annoying too.

Petty gripes in the face of how the situation looked before this news, but it's still feels like a hastily thought up bandaid fix with a bunch of icky connotations attached to it.

Is it really worth all of this to stop us doing what shaman and hunters seem fully capable of doing already and don't get a painful snare while doing it?

I'm going to miss ROF from the destro rotation too, it feels too sparse with immo / conflag / incin as it's core filler, feels like it could use another button in there, but a minor gripe I guess.

The talent changes to MF and KJC at least seem nice, but I really don't understand why AV is still sat there, remaining unchanged, despite how poor it is on a conceptual level.

[Kathranis]

Okay, I'm actually really starting to get angry here. I almost never complain vocally about proposed class changes, but this is a load of horse shit.

So they nerf KJC because "it was never intended" -- to be the only good talent in that tier? To be fun? To be useful? Okay, that's a shitty nerf because it's all of those things, but I can at least understand the reasoning that they don't want any of the mana casters to have freedom of movement while casting. Fine. Whatever. I hate the change, but I can at least comprehend it.

Then they nerf Mannoroth's Fury alongside it because, I guess, they need to make it just as crappy as the other two to ensure that we have a hard time picking which crappy talent we want to use. Which is just freaking stupid and seemingly spiteful.

So, they get nothing but complaint after complaint, and their brilliant solution is, get this: "Well, we're still nerfing KJC and Mannoroth's fury, but we're also nerfing Fel Flame and Rain of Fire! Yeah, you know that single instant cast you can use while moving, which is situationally useful but generally not worth the time to use? We're going to put a cast time on it, because fuck you!"

Christ. What a load of shit. I'm seriously considering shelving my warlock now, so I can start leveling an alt to 90, because 5.4 will make my warlock feel so much less fun to play.

[Count Zero]

Why did they have to give FF a cast time and buff its damage ? Why not just ... leave it instant without buffing the damage ?

[Szarala]

Why did they have to give FF a cast time and buff its damage ? Why not just ... leave it instant without buffing the damage ?

..because then they wouldn't be able to horribly nerf something while -calling- it a buff and say "See?! We're taking steps to improve the class!"