1. #1781
    Field Marshal Mammon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apero View Post
    Did some demo stuff on the ptr.

    75% less dmg in meta with amplification and dark soul up compared to before. Ridicoulus.


    Wow! I thought it was only a tooltip change. So, they make a broken trinket and then change our spell because the trinket messes up with game ballance? Really smart move.

  2. #1782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammon View Post
    Wow! I thought it was only a tooltip change. So, they make a broken trinket and then change our spell because the trinket messes up with game ballance? Really smart move.
    why isnt it a smart move? its something that should really have been done ages ago tbh, destro's and afflic's Dark Soul are flat percentages, why shouldnt demo's? it would be horribly OP if they didnt change it. ofc increasing your mastery by 460% by the push of a button(with amplification proc) is perfectly fine and not OP at all, right?

  3. #1783
    High Overlord Dethekk's Avatar
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    Could someone clarify if changing Dark Soul into 30% mastery is a nerf to metaform? Since 18000 mastery it grants now is 30% damage in caster form, but it's alot more in meta. So basically if Dark Soul is gonna give +30% damage in meta and in caster, it's drastically worse than current. I suppose it is atleast intended to work like now pretty much, but I'd like to know for sure :P

  4. #1784
    Deleted
    it works exactly like it curently does. its +30% in caster form and +90% in meta form. just tried it out on the ptr.

  5. #1785
    High Overlord Dethekk's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks.

  6. #1786
    Quote Originally Posted by Apero View Post
    Did some demo stuff on the ptr.

    75% less dmg in meta with amplification and dark soul up compared to before. Ridicoulus.

    Plus glyph of EA does not work with corruption that is refreshed by demonic slash. (like it was before the 5.3 fix..)

    Plus, they changed the 4 piece for demo, demonic slash does no longer trigger hand of guldan, it fires a chaoswave instead. That results in less fury and even less dps.

    Lets qq like mages do to get that stuff reverted maybe? Atleast give us a flat 40% dmg increase for destro, and MAYBE we are close to mages in 5.4. (btw, arcan mutlidotting > affli multidotting? seems legit)
    So do you mean that only ToC procs a CW, or does SB still proc a HoG?

  7. #1787
    Warchief Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emi666 View Post
    So I just came to check what fun threads were on the front page and this caught my eye. It's annoying as hell as you'll see when you read.

    This was the basically the same reasoning they used to justify taking away the usefulness of KJC with Warlocks in the first place and yet they're now messing with every ability affliction has and near enough redesigning how the spec works mid expansion and yet the changes they were planning to make with Mages are now being reverted and possibly left alone til close to end of the expansion...

    It's abit hypercritical in my opinion and in truth has more then slightly p***ed me off after reading it.

    I'll link the part that annoyed me personally.

    Original link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9485908902

    severe nerf to Pve Fire Mages


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    #1 - 2013/07/15 06:57:00 PM

    while I'm sure the recent nerfs to fire mages in the PTR are PvP related you must see that putting them through will drasticly hurt a class/playstyle that has already been hurt so bad it's almost impossible to stay competitive.

    Presence of Mind When activated, your next Mage spell with a casting time less than 10 sec becomes an instant cast spell. This spell is not on the global cooldown. and is unaffected by Alter Time. Mage - LvL 15 Talent. Instant. 1.5 min cooldown.

    This will basicly make it very difficult to near impossible the get a good combustion tick (good being anything from 20k to 25k ticks), not to mention break the current playstyle the common fire mage uses.

    Glyph of Combustion Increases the direct damage, the duration of the damage over time effect and the cooldown of Combustion by 100%. 50%. Major Glyph.

    Like I said it's hard enough to get a good combustion going as it is after the last nerf but with this change I suspect 20k ticks will become the new benchmark at the highest your average mage will see. Not to mention that it will be made that it won't line up with the CD of PoM anymore. We all know what will happen, either this glyph will become so undesirable that no one will use it anymore or having PoM will become so undesirable for what ever the "new" playstyle will be that no fire mage will take it.

    If this change is PvP motivated I strongly encourage who ever thought this was a good idea to rethink how to go about it and think of a way to do "pvp only" changes liek was done to poly and just rethink it together.

    If this is a PvE motivated change then someone over there needs to relook at some numbers because I can think of SO many other class/specs that need to be taken down long before fire mages. And no your top 1% raiding fire mages are NOT the correct mages to look at, they do no represent the majority of us, the AVERAGE fire mage.

    Stop breaking PVE damage for the sake of PvP issues.

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    #6 - 2013/07/15 11:44:00 PM

    We'll be reverting both of these changes in the next PTR build.

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    #29 - 2013/07/16 12:34:00 AM

    Here’s a little more insight into our thinking here (and why the changes even popped up on the PTR in the first place):

    We have a few concerns with how Fire is playing out at the moment. Fire scales incredibly well with gear, and we’re worried that they’ll end up doing way too much damage in high end gear. However, we’re trying to avoid just nerfing Fire’s scaling, as that would unfairly hurt any Fire mage who ISN’T in high-end gear.

    We’re also worried that Fire is leaning too heavily on perfect cooldown usage. It’s awesome when a highly-skilled player is able to use all of their abilities to the fullest and be rewarded with a little extra damage. It’s significantly less awesome when failing to do so results in a massive loss of DPS. At the moment, Fire is extremely dependent on lining up all of your cooldowns (most notably Alter Time and Presence of Mind) to score massive Combustion damage. If you pull it off, you’re rewarded with a lot of damage. Mess it up, and your performance suffers dramatically. We’d like to tone down the differences between those high and low ends a bit.

    We also think that Presence of Mind in particular is just too important to Fire right now. There’s really no choice in that tier – PoM is just too good compared to the other options. We want talents to be a choice.

    Those are the issues we’d like to fix, and why the earlier changes hit the PTR to begin with. We may try other methods, or we may decide to just leave things alone for 5.4, but we do want to fix them.
    i saw that PoM nerf and lol'd. pretty hard nerf @ pvp.



    * anyone else finding soul link is bugged? doesnt seem to be refunding the 3%
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2013-07-16 at 05:12 AM.

  8. #1788
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    i saw that PoM nerf and lol'd. pretty hard nerf @ pvp.



    * anyone else finding soul link is bugged? doesnt seem to be refunding the 3%
    They're reverting it though. So, it essence they nothinged it.

  9. #1789
    Warchief Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    They're reverting it though. So, it essence they nothinged it.
    wtf? i missed that.. wheres the source ?

  10. #1790
    Of course they are reverting it. I wish I would see the same with 15% Soul Leech (make it 30% at least), 60 seconds portals (really no idea why they did nerf it. maybe too much utility?) etc.
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  11. #1791

  12. #1792
    High Overlord Illumy's Avatar
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    nvm, i cant read -.-
    Last edited by Illumy; 2013-07-16 at 07:55 AM.

  13. #1793
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    Of course they are reverting it. I wish I would see the same with 15% Soul Leech (make it 30% at least), 60 seconds portals (really no idea why they did nerf it. maybe too much utility?) etc.
    It's pretty obvious why portals were nerfed:

    Strats became at risk of becoming completely based around having enough Warlocks in the raid to leverage portals to the extreme. Rendering some mechanics easy or trivial, yet the same mechanics unworkable or disproportionately different in difficulty for those who couldnt muster the warlock roster or requirements (or be expected to on smaller raid formats). The problem Blizzard saw is finding a way to balance around those two extremes. I'm sure everyone can think of a few fights im referring to and examples (What class was the player who switched guilds momentarily to help another guild get a kill on a certain boss - etc??)

    Its a great spell and fun mechanic. But the problem is balancing with it VS without it.
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2013-07-16 at 09:43 AM.

  14. #1794
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    yeah, coz going from 12k mastery to 55,2k when using dark soul with amp proc is perfectly alright, right? makes sense to change dark soul into a flat 30% mastery, would be horribly OP if they didnt, now its in line with the other specs. atleast the mastery buff isnt a flat % buff.
    Of course it was too good. But the synergy is even higher for arcane and fire mages. Their single target in 5.4 will be higher, their cleave will be higher, even their multidotting potential is higher. And what does Blizzard? Nerfing a glyph because glyphs shouldnt be mandatory anymore just to revert it after 4 hours of mage qq, thats the point.

    @ xorn, shadowbolt triggers hand of gul'dan.

  15. #1795
    Deleted
    Will be interesting to see how things play out for demo, with the nerf to DS making Amp less OP. As much as i love demo, i'd love for a tier to revolve around destro getting some serious love - but i fear its niche was with cleave/aoe and thats somewhat taken away with the MMF change and ember bit nerf to RoF.

    Would make sense though, afflic was strong tier 14, demo tier 15....destro tier 16? we can only speculate what blizzard can even do to help destro dig itself out of the hole its now in, but perhaps GC will just wave the white flag and say "better off redesigning this for next expansion" or at the very least give us our 20-25y for RoF.

  16. #1796
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasukan View Post
    Will be interesting to see how things play out for demo, with the nerf to DS making Amp less OP. As much as i love demo, i'd love for a tier to revolve around destro getting some serious love - but i fear its niche was with cleave/aoe and thats somewhat taken away with the MMF change and ember bit nerf to RoF.

    Would make sense though, afflic was strong tier 14, demo tier 15....destro tier 16? we can only speculate what blizzard can even do to help destro dig itself out of the hole its now in, but perhaps GC will just wave the white flag and say "better off redesigning this for next expansion" or at the very least give us our 20-25y for RoF.
    Destruction was king for progression this tier for every single fight in ToT. Demo only started outpacing it at high gear levels with UVLS, when the place is already on farm.

  17. #1797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xploits View Post
    Destruction was king for progression this tier for every single fight in ToT. Demo only started outpacing it at high gear levels with UVLS, when the place is already on farm.
    I'd have to disagree a little, as a fair amount of fights became really strong for demo, Destro fell behind rather quickly when i acquired the meta gem - enabling demo with uvls to pull ahead quickly, so that's what i did for the rest of my heroic kills, bar primordius, tortos and ra-den...and maybe horridon & durumu if i fancied changing it up .....But like i say , destro had a niche that i really enjoyed.

  18. #1798
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    Destro fell behind rather quickly when i acquired the meta gem - enabling demo with uvls to pull ahead quickly
    When he was talking about progression I think he meant early progression, not running around with the Metagem and UVLS
    And I tend to agree with his statement, Destro was very good during most of T14/T15 progression but then fell behind with more gear (the scaling problem that was discussed here before).

  19. #1799
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    When he was talking about progression I think he meant early progression, not running around with the Metagem and UVLS
    And I tend to agree with his statement, Destro was very good during most of T14/T15 progression but then fell behind with more gear (the scaling problem that was discussed here before).
    Ah well yes, if you count yourselves in the top 50 running in those first 2-3 weeks sure.

  20. #1800
    A lot of warlocks went into Heroic progression already w/ UVLS from that first week of normals. In which case, the doom cheese dps made demo preferable on many fights. Also, of course, it was dependent on your guild's strategy, for instance whether to control or burst down adds on Megaera, how oozes were handled on Primordius, etc. The only fights we really used Destro on were Horridon (b/c it was so early in progression) and Durumu (except for UVLS locks to help beat enrage). But we digress... Destro def needs to see some kind of buff for T16.

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