1. #1921
    The Patient Slowbro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    Unfortunately I have to agree. All these will go live and we'll get a fast patch that will nerf damage. But at that moment we would be busy with the new content and we'll suck it up. I don't like to whine but history says that this is the way things are done.
    We are warlocks, most are pretty used to it:/
    Funny note, the devs said they dont want to make big changes mid expansion, well delight in the irony! Frost mage mastery icicles and warlocks!
    Hey! Hey! I think i found a rare candy!
    Huh?
    Congratulations, your Slowpoke has evolved into Slowbro!

  2. #1922
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    Funny note, the devs said they dont want to make big changes mid expansion, well delight in the irony! Frost mage mastery icicles and warlocks!
    Well most of us were asking for a big changes asap, and I really dont know who ever asked for a affliction revamp in mop.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  3. #1923
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Well most of us were asking for a big changes asap, and I really dont know who ever asked for a affliction revamp in mop.
    Wait wait.. what ? Who asked for changes ??

  4. #1924
    Some Button Bloat fixes:

    1) Make UE a talent to replace SL - keep the AM effect and drop the CD to 2min.

    2) Baseline SL (GoSac variant too).

    3) Make DA an aura like Moonkin/Shadow/Elle (Give AI the same treatment)

    4) Bake CoE into our spells (HoG/Conflag/UA maybe) alla Rogue poisons and Hunter pets

    5) Delete Drain Life (keep Harvest as a talent only spell)

    6) Delete Shadow Ward - rebalance other defensives as needed

  5. #1925
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    Wait wait.. what ? Who asked for changes ??
    People that didn't like the revamp? Thats the whole pvp community and a good portion of pve ones.

    4) Bake CoE into our spells (HoG/Conflag/UA maybe) alla Rogue poisons and Hunter pets
    More dumbing down the game?

    5) Delete Drain Life (keep Harvest as a talent only spell)
    And that would fix what? Removing the lock more from the initial design?
    Last edited by Naztrak; 2013-07-21 at 04:46 PM.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  6. #1926
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    People that didn't like the revamp? Thats the whole pvp community and a good portion of pve ones.


    More dumbing down the game?



    And that would fix what? Removing the lock more from the initial design?
    Yes, the revamp is awful. But the recent changes don't fix even a little bit of this imo.

  7. #1927
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    Yes, the revamp is awful. But the recent changes don't fix even a little bit of this imo.
    Never said they do- only that we wanted a fix for what blizzard screwed.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  8. #1928
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Never said they do- only that we wanted a fix for what blizzard screwed.
    Yes, I didn't want to say you think anything was fixed. I wanted to support your statement.

  9. #1929
    High Overlord
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    All I want is for them to fix Destro so I can play it again for progression, instead of the garbage proc reliant Demo.

  10. #1930
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    People that didn't like the revamp? Thats the whole pvp community and a good portion of pve ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efrye View Post
    Yes, the revamp is awful. But the recent changes don't fix even a little bit of this imo.
    I can understand personal preference to what they think is a good spec or gameplay, but how can people say the revamp to warlocks wasn't good?
    does anyone even remember how scattered demo was? it had almost no set rotation and the majority of people playing it were few to none.almost the same can be said about destro.affliction was the only decent spec we had to really play last expansion. i know people who did choose to play warlocks did play a little of each spec(which was a very small amount) but, there was a reason the class got revamped. most warlocks weren't cheering for how good their gameplay was in pve or pvp.

  11. #1931
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Some Button Bloat fixes:

    1) Make UE a talent to replace SL - keep the AM effect and drop the CD to 2min.

    2) Baseline SL (GoSac variant too).

    3) Make DA an aura like Moonkin/Shadow/Elle (Give AI the same treatment)

    4) Bake CoE into our spells (HoG/Conflag/UA maybe) alla Rogue poisons and Hunter pets

    5) Delete Drain Life (keep Harvest as a talent only spell)

    6) Delete Shadow Ward - rebalance other defensives as needed
    I like the idea of trading UR and SL so that SL is baseline as a passive and the talents are all active at that point. Makes a lot more sense doing it that way. It took us years to get baseline SL and then the minute this x pac came out they yanked it. But imo a better idea wouldn't be to get rid of twilight ward but instead buff it so it becomes our true active defense. Make it a 15 sec CD and have it be able to absorb physical attacks as well so we can deflect some pressure here and there. Kinda like PW:S for spriests.
    Last edited by Lucidious; 2013-07-21 at 05:29 PM.

  12. #1932
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    More dumbing down the game?

    And that would fix what? Removing the lock more from the initial design?

    Putting CoE up is a maintenance debuff, not 'intelligent' gameplay. And Drain Life is dead - has been forever. It can go.

  13. #1933
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Putting CoE up is a maintenance debuff, not 'intelligent' gameplay. And Drain Life is dead - has been forever. It can go.
    Agreed and agreed

  14. #1934
    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    I can understand personal preference to what they think is a good spec or gameplay, but how can people say the revamp to warlocks wasn't good?
    does anyone even remember how scattered demo was? it had almost no set rotation and the majority of people playing it were few to none.almost the same can be said about destro.affliction was the only decent spec we had to really play last expansion. i know people who did choose to play warlocks did play a little of each spec(which was a very small amount) but, there was a reason the class got revamped. most warlocks weren't cheering for how good their gameplay was in pve or pvp.
    Agreed. I don't get you guys. Did you even play warlock before mop ? It was good but the differences between specs were so bad. Only the filler changed and some few things. Meta was just transforming you but you kept doing the same filler and attacks. And I'm not talking about the weirdo demo opener during DS... I like our locks so much better now. The addition of many cooldowns and utilities is really a great + to the gameplay. I'd never want anything from the old lock (remembering locks during BC... trololol shadow bolt)

  15. #1935
    PVE-wise I think the changes made Warlocks more interesting and thematically strengthened the class and vastly improved spec identity.

    Unfortunately the shift to a resource based system, especially where Demo and Destro have to "build" their resources, essentially "modernized" the class where most everyone else is stuck in the dark-ages of being able to burst when they want rather than building up to it. Embers and Fury may be cool but they don't work well when we have to charge them up before being able to really pour on sustained burst when Hunters, DKs, Warriors and Rogues go 0-60 very quickly. Then you throw in the CC we lost, while other classes were given many toys.

    We did gain some active damage reduction abilties, and that was certainly welcome, but it did come at the expense of passive survivability.
    Last edited by Rethul Ur No; 2013-07-21 at 05:49 PM.

  16. #1936
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    Did you even play warlock before mop ?
    I play more cata and wotlk then mop due to how they destroyed affliction. I did reffered strictly to affliction at my initial qq.

    Only the filler changed and some few things.
    I hope you reffering to demo here. Affliction has lost everything it ever stood up- the passive tankiness, strong casted dots, lots of selfhealing, strong sinergy with the pet etc. SB:SS destroyed everything this spec was about for- the dots are not the damage, but the means to do them. Really glad they are doing something about it in 5.4.

    And Drain Life is dead - has been forever. It can go.
    Forever? It died only in mop.

    PVE-wise I think the changes made Warlocks more interesting and thematically strengthened the class and vastly improved spec identity.
    Ironically, I think affly and destro are really boring to play in pve nowadays- its oversimplified. To actually have to work my ass of as cata destro in HC raids was more satisfying then mop atrocity, I literally lost half of my keybinds.
    Last edited by Naztrak; 2013-07-21 at 06:14 PM.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  17. #1937
    Meh, compared to Cata Destro I would agree....though I think proc-watching certainly makes it more complicated than Wrath Destruction, which seemed to be a popular spec.

    Aff I would disagree with it being more simple. The gist of the spec isn't much different, except now you really have to pay attention to procs and how they relate to the current strength of your dots and Haunt is something you weigh the benefits when you use rather than on CD. The problem is that Affdots turns this whole process into autopilot, or a game of red-light/green-light. Multi-dotting is certainly easier now though with SB:SS, Pandemic, and no Shadow Embrace to fret over.

    Naxx Affliction was really cool, but honestly, if you could watch a DoT timer it really wasn't that challenging, but I understand why people liked it.

  18. #1938
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    The problem is that Affdots turns this whole process into autopilot, or a game of red-light/green-light.
    Having an addon do the most work was a known issue pve based. And mop affliction is too forgiving due to SB:SS- yeah, its a dps loss to get behind, but the actual process of doing damage is far more forgiving.

    Naxx Affliction was really cool, but honestly, if you could watch a DoT timer it really wasn't that challenging, but I understand why people liked it.
    IMO the best affliction design, lots of dots and no fel flame for quick refresh. Actually felt like a dot heavy class.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  19. #1939
    I personally LOVED cata Demo. Idk how anyone could say it was stale. The whole spec revolved around smart use of Metamorphosis. The filler was dynamic: shadowbolt spam to instant shadowbolt nightfall proc to incinerate spam molten core proc to soulfire spam in execute - that's a helluva lot more than Demo does now. THEN you had 3 DoTs (Corr, Doom, Immo) to maintain and HoG on CD. Meta-weaving is probably the only thing interesting about Demo's current gameplay, and it's not even intended lol! It's the side effect of the time it takes HoG to calculate damage. Blizzard explicitly stated at the outset of MoP, they didn't want us stance dancing for Demo, and more than likely HoG-weaving will die at the end of MoP which is sad due to it (I reiterate) being the only thing interesting about PvE MoP demo, IMHO.

    But in all honesty, Destro took the biggest hit to gameplay in the overhaul. I mean we press like what? - 4 maybe 5 buttons on a consistent basis. No procs outside of Backlash. I know the maintenance Soulfire buff wasn't super fun, but it gave you something to be mindful of and made the imp proc insta Soulfires that much more rewarding.

    I actually enjoyed PvE Affliction at the beginning of this expansion, but I do think they are taking Affli in a good direction in 5.4. I just hope no nerfs are incurred as a result of very strong multidotting capability which anyone with half a brain can see we will be capable of with the recent buffs to DoTs.
    Last edited by Shadowygoodness; 2013-07-22 at 02:52 AM.
    Those who you know as Warlocks are your Salvation through Destruction. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

  20. #1940
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I think we have enough issues with button bloat. Having a passive option amongst the talents is a good way to limit that.
    Are you serious about us having button bloat?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xploits View Post
    All I want is for them to fix Destro so I can play it again for progression, instead of the garbage proc reliant Demo.
    Agreed, we never got the compensation for RoF either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowygoodness View Post
    I personally LOVED cata Demo. Idk how anyone could say it was stale. The whole spec revolved around smart use of Metamorphosis. The filler was dynamic: shadowbolt spam to instant shadowbolt nightfall proc to incinerate spam molten core proc to soulfire spam in execute - that's a helluva lot more than Demo does now. THEN you had 3 DoTs (Corr, Doom, Immo) to maintain and HoG on CD. Meta-weaving is probably the only thing interesting about Demo's current gameplay, and it's not even intended lol! It's the side effect of the time it takes HoG to calculate damage. Blizzard explicitly stated at the outset of MoP, they didn't want us stance dancing for Demo, and more than likely HoG-weaving will die at the end of MoP which is sad due to it (I reiterate) being the only thing interesting about PvE MoP demo, IMHO.
    Maintaining those dots weren't hard and demo honestly wasn't that hard to play back then.

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