1. #1141
    @Snaxattax - You cannot say before even looking at encounters that a class is gna be strong especially considering that demo without Uvls was really nothing special, Affi was crap before the meta gem and Destro has always been low on single target, so im not sure where your fantasy starts and ends with warlocks and tanks were constantly top because quite simply put that just isint true.

    Getting Chaos bolts in during buffs is more damage for sure, but its not enough to make up the value of dropping under the GCD cap of incinerate and once Rain doesnt generate any embers, thats a MONSTROUS dps loss to cast incinerate for ember regen and leave rain of fire out of the rotation.

    On the subject of haste buffs, thats what bloodlust / meta gem and backdraft are for, but you will see, ive spent a decent amount of time checking out destro and how it could potentially play in 5.4 and everything atm points to haste being the weakest stat by a long margin.

    I wont comment on how demo will play in t16 because i have done very little research on it.

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  2. #1142
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Devs have painted destro into a corner somewhat in both pvp and pve...
    I completely agree with Werst - he makes some pretty valid points. I personally think it is about time to un-marry PvP and PvE. As a 100% PvPer, I am sick of seeing PvE balances that completely obliterate the PvP experience. I actually just got inspired to start a new topic in the PvP forum.

    Werst, I love your suggestions on lock PvP. On top of all, this is the first post that I read and just keep on nodding as I agree with all the PvP issues you mentioned.

  3. #1143
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    t15 progression meters were all warlocks & tanks, except for fire mages on twin consorts and scumbagging on tortos.
    Well they certainly aren't now, which should be even more the case due to our "superior scaling".

  4. #1144
    Demo is still snapshotting crit on dots so UVLS and the amplification trinket would both theoretically give you auto crit doom ticks. Possibly if both trinkets were used you could drop the EA glyph for more damage but too early to tell. In practice I really feel the MF change to not applying to shadowflame/HoG. Probably be the death of demo in arena since you aren't hitting multiple targets with chaoswave anymore either.

    Destro needs about a 30% bump to all its regular spells in terms of ember generation simply to offset the RoF change. Destro without RoF in the APL on live is borderline non viable bad. T16 set just makes for RNG on top of RNG for its bonus. It needs to be a flat chance when you conflag or 100% on crit. There is definitely a ICD on the ember master thing which again is hurt by the RoF ember nerf.

    Soul leech is about a 100K shield max in near bis gear so it helps take the edge off but doesn't nearly double our EHP. This alone should take us down to where others are in terms of pve survival. Losing 10% flat mitigation is really going to hurt in pvp, especially with the gateway nerf and other changes. Locks are some of the most durable live in pve and the squishiest in pvp but that was almost entirely high capping soul leech.

    I don't think we are going to be able to unmarry the mechanics that are really holding back locks in pvp mid expac. However I do think we can work around them quite a bit better than we have been doing. A couple spells will just need different pvp vs pve values (say AV), might need some of our stuff to ignore battle fatigue, and def need help in the damage delivery. Thus aff would get uninterruptable channeled spells, dest might get instant CB at 3x stacks of backdraft, and demo will need a change to chaoswave. Even just treat CW like soulfire....always crits (halved dmg), scales with crit, and revert the 33% nerf. Make the gosac portion a dot if you have to but probably unnecessary. The problem wasn't the non crit CW damage it was the sub 2% chance of a double crit. Demo also probably needs an imp summoned + DF refund when doom is dispelled. Stuff like that doesn't touch pve balance yet would make a world of difference in pvp.
    Last edited by Werst; 2013-07-03 at 01:27 PM. Reason: more info

  5. #1145
    Still waiting on some word for how AV is going to be changed...

  6. #1146
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    Still waiting on some word for how AV is going to be changed...
    I kinda expected a new patch on the PTR early in the week, but we haven't had one. Can't be long now though.
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  7. #1147
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Looks like the PTR is down, hopefully it means a new build is incoming.

  8. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Looks like the PTR is down, hopefully it means a new build is incoming.
    It is usually datamined before its installation. We might get the new trinkets on Flaskataur though.
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  9. #1149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    It is usually datamined before its installation. We might get the new trinkets on Flaskataur though.
    http://www.wowhead.com/news=215959/5...icons-and-more

    Nothing about Archimonde's yet, but Soul Swap is getting a bit of a makeover. And Nightfall now only procs from your most recent Corruption, but it's chance has been upped to 10%.

  10. #1150
    I guess the nightfall change will make the 4 piece affliction bonus for this tier not look as bad.

  11. #1151
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    You copy your Shadow damage-over-time effects from the target, preserving their power and duration. For 6 sec afterwards, the next target you cast Soul Swap: Exhale on will be afflicted by the copied Shadow damage-over-time effects. You cannot Soul Swap to the same target.
    Soul Swap nerfed/buffed ?
    Buffed because it officially keeps the power, but kinda nerfed because you have to copy DoTs that were recently applied. And it doesn't do damage anymore, and you have only 6 sec to reapply the DoTs.

    The next step would be the removal of the glyph and SB:SS ?

    With the nerf to Corruption, they are in the process of hard nerfing the multidotting I guess.

    (or I'm reading all this wrong )
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-07-03 at 05:51 PM.
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  12. #1152
    also only have 6 seconds to copy over the dots.

  13. #1153
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Well, Seed will require less damage done before exploding.

  14. #1154
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    It's a buff to affliction single target and the same if you're multi-dot is just two targets. Past that you're going to see a nerf.

    The soul swap change keeping it's power could be fairly nice on a two target fight, where you could endlessly have one set of incredibly powerful dots rolling.

  15. #1155
    preserving power and duration
    This means if you inhale with 1 second of UA, when you exhale UA will still have 1 second duration as opposed to as it is on live, where the dot goes back to its full duration? (UA is an example)

    They seem to be nerfing affli's multidotting, and buffing single target slightly.

  16. #1156
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    It's a buff to affliction single target and the same if you're multi-dot is just two targets. Past that you're going to see a nerf.

    The soul swap change keeping it's power could be fairly nice on a two target fight, where you could endlessly have one set of incredibly powerful dots rolling.
    Dot's don't roll. They copy their duration as well, so you'll have to recast them at some point and get a new snapshot.

    I don't like the look of these changes at all. Need to see what it does in practice, but 6 sec swap time is stupid, and that's the least of our worries.
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  17. #1157
    It doesn't say anything about SB:SW. Did they remove that or what?

  18. #1158
    Quote Originally Posted by esatikkane View Post
    It doesn't say anything about SB:SW. Did they remove that or what?
    I doubt that. Not sure what use the Glyph of Soul Swap is now though, since we allready leave our dots behind this way. Possibly they'll change it to make the glyph actually remove the dots. A reversal of how it was before.
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  19. #1159
    I don't think it's much of a nerf. If you copy your dots at full duration you can have full powered dots on several targets without using a Shard(considering it doens't have a CD). That means we'll use shards for Haunting not for dots, hence the change to Nightfall.

  20. #1160
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    I doubt that. Not sure what use the Glyph of Soul Swap is now though, since we allready leave our dots behind this way. Possibly they'll change it to make the glyph actually remove the dots. A reversal of how it was before.
    Well, I don't understand why people say its nerf for more than 2 targets. It's a clear buff for 2 targets and nothing changes for >2 targets except less nightfall procs which isn't big deal.

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