Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Shadowygoodness]

i was referring to the UR glyph.. which is why i said daring [super offensive and / or bad] destro locks, if it was havoc i wouldnt have to specify that i hope. i was also referring to arenas - 3s.

your haste is going to be higher in 5.4..CB with backdraft is exactly 1.8 seconds.

if you don't know how to juke or time your cds.. sure..godsend. if you know how to play it's stupid to give up 20% of your wall for a 1/3 cd reduction in a major slot. howl baseline opens up SF for you to get even more room too get off casts.

to sum up; if you cant land a 1.8s cast in arena than take the glyph.

rbgs aren't worth considering for me so it's whatever..

that's what i meant. that's why i think this is a stupid glyph.

havoc glyph could be useful.

Guess it is just a difference in playstyles. I almost never use UR defensively when we have so many other better defensive cds. Plus we only really have 2 mandatory glyphs for destro PvP, so I'm not sure what's the point in reiterating the loss of a major glyph slot.

[pokeadott]

Guess it is just a difference in playstyles. I almost never use UR defensively when we have so many other better defensive cds. Plus we only really have 2 mandatory glyphs for destro PvP, so I'm not sure what's the point in reiterating the loss of a major glyph slot.

Doesn't everyone use UR offensively? Either I'm able to gateway/portal kite and get healed in which case I'm not going to need UR as a life saver, or I'm getting hunter/melee face trained into oblivion in which case living an extra few seconds isn't going to win me anything. In either scenario, I'd like to be able to land my burst and/or Fears to at least have an extra chance to score a kill.

[Shodan30]

The AV change....is very interesting.

Given that they are nerfing our absorb shield so hard, and now actively encouraging us to take damage...I predict that we are going to have to learn all over again to keep a close eye on our health bar. Not only that, but given that I have a health pool pretty damn close to a tanks, gives me quite a bit of room to boost dps via damage taking.

even before the new items come out, at higher ilvls, im at 605k health just self buffed. glyphed healthstone gives an effective 830k, wonder if it will cap at 1% of your health . Does vengence have a cap?

It certainly makes me consider taking it given the nerf to KJC.

[Grubjuice]

I think the new AV is going to work like vengeance... would be funny seeing locks in DA stacking full stamina and reaching about 1.3m+ , wouldn't that give like 10k+ SP if you had 2 or 3 healers on you, making it more viable for tanking since it also increases the bubbles we make?

if you need two or three healers on you, then you are not 'viable' for tanking.

but otherwise, i too suspect Archimonde's Vengeance will function similarly to [Tank] Vengeance, it's just the most obvious way to make that buff work mechanically.

However, Ghostcrawler tweeted that standing in fire is not supposed to work with AV so i suspect that the SP buff will only calculate damage from non-environmental sources.

[Skayth]

I agree that standing in fire shouldnt work for AV, but... then you have to realize alot of things are considered environmental damage rather than boss spells. I think that some of these spells should be considered for AV.

[Jessicka]

I agree that standing in fire shouldnt work for AV, but... then you have to realize alot of things are considered environmental damage rather than boss spells. I think that some of these spells should be considered for AV.

This.

I think also when they say unmitigated damage, they mean the full damage before mitigation. Otherwise if it was just damage taken after mitigation, then the use of the word unmitigated would be completely superfluous, and long superfluous words aren't something you want in tooltips. Nor do you want to create a situation where players are taking chances by not popping cooldowns in order to maximise potential damage.

[Shadowygoodness]

Doesn't everyone use UR offensively? Either I'm able to gateway/portal kite and get healed in which case I'm not going to need UR as a life saver, or I'm getting hunter/melee face trained into oblivion in which case living an extra few seconds isn't going to win me anything. In either scenario, I'd like to be able to land my burst and/or Fears to at least have an extra chance to score a kill.

That's kind of my point. The poster I was quoting made it seem like you have to be bad at juking to consider this new UR glyph good. Regardless of your talent at juking, I think having interrupt protection every time you have DS burst is very nice. The playstyle actually reminds me of a watered down version of the way current Ele sham offensive cd useage works - pop SWG (wearing 4p resto gear for 20-25s interrupt/silence protection), pop Ascendance + trinket, spam Lava Burst ad nausem. In our case, it would be pool x amount of y resource, throw out a CC, pop DS + trinket and go to town, pop UR either after CC breaks or prepop if the opponent has a blanket, proceed to do max burst - obviously this is a very tame hypothetical, but you get the gist.

[God8010]

Well now I'd only corrupt off SOC to aoe, focus dots on 1 to filler. Seems now filler will be the weakest aspect, making multidotting the favor. Wish Haunt duration reflected the loss of nightfall procs and weaker filler. Big cuts here and there for a 10% and 5% single spell buff. If swap gets retooled so hard you cant shard a set of dots the spec will have serious short-comings.

[Shadowygoodness]

Well now I'd only corrupt off SOC to aoe, focus dots on 1 to filler. Seems now filler will be the weakest aspect, making multidotting the favor. Wish Haunt duration reflected the loss of nightfall procs and weaker filler. Big cuts here and there for a 10% and 5% single spell buff. If swap gets retooled so hard you cant shard a set of dots the spec will have serious short-comings.

The new swap allows you to inhale dots and exhale dots the same as the glyph on live currently does but without a cooldown, so you will only need 1 shard for instant dots and then simply go about inhaling and exhaling.

[evertonbelmontt]

The new swap allows you to inhale dots and exhale dots the same as the glyph on live currently does but without a cooldown, so you will only need 1 shard for instant dots and then simply go about inhaling and exhaling.

Are you completely sure? Because on live it doesn't maintain duration or power, it resets duration and power (with agony being exception).

[Shadowygoodness]

Are you completely sure? Because on live it doesn't maintain duration or power, it resets duration and power (with agony being exception).

"Soul Swap no longer does any damage, and now copies damage-over-time effects instead of just moving them without needing a glyph. Copied effects now once again preserve their power and duration. Duration has been reduced to 6 seconds (down from 20 seconds)."

Front page; scroll down towards the middle.

[Lulbalance]

That's kind of my point. The poster I was quoting made it seem like you have to be bad at juking to consider this new UR glyph good. Regardless of your talent at juking, I think having interrupt protection every time you have DS burst is very nice. The playstyle actually reminds me of a watered down version of the way current Ele sham offensive cd useage works - pop SWG (wearing 4p resto gear for 20-25s interrupt/silence protection), pop Ascendance + trinket, spam Lava Burst ad nausem. In our case, it would be pool x amount of y resource, throw out a CC, pop DS + trinket and go to town, pop UR either after CC breaks or prepop if the opponent has a blanket, proceed to do max burst - obviously this is a very tame hypothetical, but you get the gist.

first off; there's no 'regardless of juking', it as everything to do with it. anything you cant juke except blankets will stop you anyways. if you're paying attention you shouldn't have to always use UR to guard your casts.. it's a waste.

i dont feel like you should bank on it.. i dont feel like it should have to be your plan.. i dont feel like you should glyph around that plan. it seems stupid to me.. that's it basically.

i dunno what the shammy thing was.. SWG doesnt reduce dmg taken by 40% so it has nothing to do with anything really.

using a major defensive cd as a crutch to land casts in burst ALL the time seems pathetic to me. strange to me that people are even making an argument for this :s.

[edit] - shortened because.. :\

[evertonbelmontt]

"Soul Swap no longer does any damage, and now copies damage-over-time effects instead of just moving them without needing a glyph. Copied effects now once again preserve their power and duration. Duration has been reduced to 6 seconds (down from 20 seconds)."

Front page; scroll down towards the middle.

Yeah.. that was not what I meant.
I was refering to SS glyphed keeping power and duration, because unglyphed it does not.

[Shadowygoodness]

Yeah.. that was not what I meant.
I was refering to SS glyphed keeping power and duration, because unglyphed it does not.

Not sure what you mean. It says in the quote Soul Swap will now preserve the power and duration of DoTs once again the same as current SS glyphed.

first off; there's no 'regardless of juking', it as everything to do with it. anything you cant juke except blankets will stop you anyways. if you're paying attention you shouldn't have to always use UR to guard your casts.. it's a waste.

i dont feel like you should bank on it.. i dont feel like it should have to be your plan.. i dont feel like you should glyph around that plan. it seems stupid to me.. that's it basically.

i dunno what the shammy thing was.. SWG doesnt reduce dmg taken by 40% so it has nothing to do with anything really.

using a major defensive cd as a crutch to land casts in burst ALL the time seems pathetic to me. strange to me that people are even making an argument for this :s.

[edit] - shortened because.. :\

No offense, to each their own, but you're probably one of maybe handful of locks I've ever discussed PvP with who actually uses UR mainly as a defensive cd. The whole reference to shamans was that elemental shamans wearing 4p Resto PvP set are not capable of being interrupted/silenced during the duration of SWG.

[evertonbelmontt]

Sorry, double post. But I may use this as well.

Forget it, I'm having a hard time to explain myself, it's better if I look into it in game.

Just tested it, Current SS Glyphed DOES NOT keep duration and power, it refreshes. That was my point, because you said that current glyphed SS was working just like the ptr one.

[Lulbalance]

Doesn't everyone use UR offensively? Either I'm able to gateway/portal kite and get healed in which case I'm not going to need UR as a life saver, or I'm getting hunter/melee face trained into oblivion in which case living an extra few seconds isn't going to win me anything. In either scenario, I'd like to be able to land my burst and/or Fears to at least have an extra chance to score a kill.

1 - no, not everyone does. sometimes sure.. most of the time, no.

2 - yes it could. you're basically negating their offensive cds with that -40%. it's a pretty big deal.

3 - my argument was that you should be able to land things most of the time without UR.

[Shadowygoodness]

1 - no, not everyone does. sometimes sure.. most of the time, no.

2 - yes it could. you're basically negating their offensive cds with that -40%. it's a pretty big deal.

3 - my argument was that you should be able to land things most of the time without UR.

1. I agree not everyone does this, but I would wager more do than don't.

2. Sac Pact does UR's job but better and on a shorter cd.

3. No one is saying you should solely rely on UR to get casts off, but obviously having interrupt protection during burst is kind of a good thing. You prefer to eat a blanket into a CC during your cooldowns when the scenario presents itself?

OT: I'm wondering if something akin to Beth'tilac's aoe aura would count toward AV spellpower stacking.

[Lulbalance]

Not sure what you mean. It says in the quote Soul Swap will now preserve the power and duration of DoTs once again the same as current SS glyphed.



No offense, to each their own, but you're probably one of maybe handful of locks I've ever discussed PvP with who actually uses UR mainly as a defensive cd. The whole reference to shamans was that elemental shamans wearing 4p Resto PvP set are not capable of being interrupted/silenced during the duration of SWG.

i sorta wonder who you're talking too :s .. but ok fair point.

anyways my original point - this is 100% a bad choice for aff, some destro locks may need it.

- - - Updated - - -

1. I agree not everyone does this, but I would wager more do than most.

2. Sac Pact does UR's job but better and on a shorter cd.

3. No one is saying you should solely rely on UR to get casts off, but obviously having interrupt protection during burst is kind of a good thing. You prefer to eat a blanket into a CC during your cooldowns when the scenario presents itself?

1 - starting to think you might be right judging from this thread :/

2 - you playing sact pact as destro? yikes.

3 - i agree.. but thats not a strong enough reason to give up your 2nd best defensive 'just 'cause'.

[Shadowygoodness]

this is 100% a bad choice for aff, some destro locks may need it.

While I don't agree with the "100% bad choice for aff", I do agree with you that the glyph is seemingly much better for Destro, since Destro can no longer cast CB on-the-move.

[Teye]

To add something to the AV discussion, a few of you may not be aware of the changes to Vengeance on the PTR. Void Zones and generally avoidable damage no longer grants Vengeance. If they did that for Vengeance, they're obviously going to do it for AV.