1. #2281
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondeye View Post
    I didn't read thru the other 113 pages so I don't know if this was discussed or not.

    Are you guys thinking that UVLS Demo will still be viable for Tier 16? Combine it with the 84% trinket and a complete haste build (or possibly viable with the 8.1k haste build), that would be a ridiculous imp spawner. Question is, would it be enough to surpass the other 2 specs (or itself) with more current trinkets?
    The trinket changed, it's 14% passive amp now with intellect proc.

    UVLS Demo is viable, but below Affliction and crit Demo (new trinkets) according to latest data. Note that it is also affected slightly by the imp swarm nerf (5 -> 4 imps).

  2. #2282
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    The trinket changed, it's 14% passive amp now with intellect proc.

    UVLS Demo is viable, but below Affliction and crit Demo (new trinkets) according to latest data. Note that it is also affected slightly by the imp swarm nerf (5 -> 4 imps).
    Affliction single target is pretty strong at the moment, and once they fix MF soc their aoe will still be really strong assuming 1 min gaps between burst aoe ( aka: sha of pride ), actually really looking forward to it

  3. #2283
    Is Drain Life still considered periodic damage? If so, the Haunt nerf should not affect it right?

    Been missing around with the PTR, even with the buff to it via Harvest Life in PvP, it's still not that much of a damage. Having it affected with the Haunt nerf will make it more questionable in terms of viability.

  4. #2284
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondeye View Post
    Oh really? I missed that....

    Sad Panda now...
    it was horribly OP, it shouldnt be surprised that it got changed but yeah, im a sad troll too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    The trinket changed, it's 14% passive amp now with intellect proc.

    UVLS Demo is viable, but below Affliction and crit Demo (new trinkets) according to latest data. Note that it is also affected slightly by the imp swarm nerf (5 -> 4 imps).
    what latest data?

  5. #2285
    Quote Originally Posted by Cebel View Post
    Affliction single target is pretty strong at the moment, and once they fix MF soc their aoe will still be really strong assuming 1 min gaps between burst aoe ( aka: sha of pride ), actually really looking forward to it
    You are aware that MF is double dipping atm which is giving seed 300% increased damage and it no longer benefits from haunt. Im pretty sure actually that affi aoe will actually be quite average in comparision to the other 2 specs.

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  6. #2286
    Quote Originally Posted by sugarfree View Post
    Is Drain Life still considered periodic damage? If so, the Haunt nerf should not affect it right?

    Been missing around with the PTR, even with the buff to it via Harvest Life in PvP, it's still not that much of a damage. Having it affected with the Haunt nerf will make it more questionable in terms of viability.
    Drain Life is considered periodic, along with MG and Drain Soul, but the change is not yet in on the PTR, so there is no way to be 100% sure what it affects exactly.

  7. #2287
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    You are aware that MF is double dipping atm which is giving seed 300% increased damage and it no longer benefits from haunt. Im pretty sure actually that affi aoe will actually be quite average in comparision to the other 2 specs.
    Yes i am aware, notice i said once they fix, that means im aware.

    Also since you ARENT aware, it wasnt bugged until the last build or two. Even on live my seeds ( with cds ) is hitting for 120-140k, now lets do some basic math.

    120k x 2 ( for a crit ) = 240k ( These are live values )

    240k x 2 ( for the new MF bonus ) = 480k

    480k x 5 ( lets just say 5 targets as its not too high, nor is it too low ) = 2,400,000 damage

    Now lets assume only 1/3 of those are crits ( for simplicities sake we'll say 2 crits leave 3 hit )

    1,680,000 / 1 second ( because with CDs even in current gear ( especially with lust ) we're gcd capping ) = 1,680,000 dps for 10 seconds of 500% range aoe.... Thats pretty fucking strong, and its only going to exponentially stronger with more targets. Obviously this is napkin math, and assuming the stars align, but you can see that afflictions aoe during the MF window is going to be quite awesome.


    Keep in mind that math is with the majority of our CD's popped, obviously that wont happen the majority of the time, however even if you cut those values in half, they're still extremely strong and dont hurt our single target as badly as it used to ( since our dots deal more of our dmg to our main target without channeling MG ).

  8. #2288
    First of all, you aint having no 33% crit as affi

    Second your giving up a CD which gives you the ability to line trinkets proc with Dark soul, this needs to be considered extremely heavily.

    Third, the damage that you get even on 5 targets would be 240k x5 which is 1.2 million damage a second for 10 seconds. (discounting your crits)

    To hit those numbers on the ptr i was needing the amp trinket up, potion up, spell power buff, flask, curse of elements, 553 gear and the static int from the crit trinket proc plus ofc mannoroths. (food buff to ofc)

    Lets compare a second to destruction aoe, you do in current gear with mastery stacking (which you will always do) 70ish% of your single target damage on every target, now lets add in all those buffs except mannoroths, you would be doing maybe 160k x5 which is 800k before crit chance (which your gna have tons of btw in t16) with only incinerate this is discounting Rain of fire and immolate

    For the range increase the talent is great for affi sure, but is affi aoe gna be much stronger than destro or demo, i really dont think so.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-07-29 at 02:23 AM.

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  9. #2289
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    First of all, you aint having no 33% crit as affi

    Second your giving up a CD which gives you the ability to line trinkets proc with Dark soul, this needs to be considered extremely heavily.

    Third, the damage that you get even on 5 targets would be 240k x5 which is 1.2 million damage a second for 10 seconds. (discounting your crits)

    To hit those numbers on the ptr i was needing the amp trinket up, potion up, spell power buff, flask, curse of elements, 553 gear and the static int from the crit trinket proc plus ofc mannoroths. (food buff to ofc)

    Lets compare a second to destruction aoe, you do in current gear with mastery stacking (which you will always do) 70ish% of your single target damage on every target, now lets add in all those buffs except mannoroths, you would be doing maybe 160k x5 which is 800k before crit chance (which your gna have tons of btw in t16) with only incinerate this is discounting Rain of fire and immolate

    For the range increase the talent is great for affi sure, but is affi aoe gna be much stronger than destro or demo, i really dont think so.
    While I agree with you, I think it is important to note that if we do take MF for a fight, Affliction benefits the most from it (SoC vs Immo Aura/Rain of fire). In a situation with spread burst aoe, affliction will likely be the go to choice for us.

  10. #2290
    I think Aff aoe in 10 second bursts every minute is going to be much stronger than any other spec simply due to what does and doesn't benefit from MF for the other specs. From a practical standpoint, Sha of Pride is the only fight so far that has any important AoE in the whole tier so I can't imagine you'll want to play anything else.
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  11. #2291
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    You are aware that MF is double dipping atm which is giving seed 300% increased damage and it no longer benefits from haunt. Im pretty sure actually that affi aoe will actually be quite average in comparision to the other 2 specs.
    I posted logs from quite awhile back, with logs from 10 man normal sha of pride testing, ( before MF was bugged ), showing that seed actually does do far more dmg in that 10 second burst damage than demo or destro are capable of doing, just saying.

  12. #2292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cebel View Post
    I posted logs from quite awhile back, with logs from 10 man normal sha of pride testing, ( before MF was bugged ), showing that seed actually does do far more dmg in that 10 second burst damage than demo or destro are capable of doing, just saying.
    I wish they put F&B in MF, I don't see why they wouldn't as how weak it is atm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    The trinket changed, it's 14% passive amp now with intellect proc.

    UVLS Demo is viable, but below Affliction and crit Demo (new trinkets) according to latest data. Note that it is also affected slightly by the imp swarm nerf (5 -> 4 imps).
    Where is this "latest Data"?

  13. #2293
    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    4set is shit anyway! One problem solves the other
    For who? Afflication? Maybe. For Demo/Destro? Bwahahahahahaha, no.

  14. #2294
    Quote Originally Posted by Cebel View Post
    I posted logs from quite awhile back, with logs from 10 man normal sha of pride testing, ( before MF was bugged ), showing that seed actually does do far more dmg in that 10 second burst damage than demo or destro are capable of doing, just saying.
    You cant argue with math, for the range increase the talent is a god send, but destro would still be able to run AD for the internal cd trinket and dark soul stacking + its aoe is still going to match affi damage wise even when they have mannororths, this is most likely why Fire and Brimstone is not included in the talent because it would make our aoe damage absoloutely absurd (not saying that the talent shouldnt include the range for fire and brimstone though)

    Obviously Destro would need to pool resources which is a slight negtive on that.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-07-29 at 10:33 AM.

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  15. #2295
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Why are people saying that affliction does so much more damage with SoC than demo or destro with immo/RoF? Currently, SoC is about 36% of affliction's Aoe and immo is about 36% of demo's AoE. RoF is the only spell slightly behind at 27%.

    As for anyone saying F&B needs to be added to MF, that would now make MF affect 100% of our AoE or if you took RoF out it would affect 74%. The only logical solution would be to make MF buff RoF by ~150-200% while keeping demo and affli at 100%.

  16. #2296
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Why are people saying that affliction does so much more damage with SoC than demo or destro with immo/RoF? Currently, SoC is about 36% of affliction's Aoe and immo is about 36% of demo's AoE. RoF is the only spell slightly behind at 27%.
    Explain me how you account SoC for only 36% of afflictions AoE, while it's the only AoE spell affliction has, apart from a channeled RoF that we pretty much never use.

  17. #2297
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    For who? Afflication? Maybe. For Demo/Destro? Bwahahahahahaha, no.
    Yes Affliction, and Demo/Destro are not that sad to get crit I think... Next tier that is.

  18. #2298
    Hi,

    With Haunt and Gosac nerf, how is affli standing now? I know it had amazing scaling (still lower than fire mages) but arent these nerfs a bit overboard?

  19. #2299
    Quote Originally Posted by khalamo View Post
    Hi,

    With Haunt and Gosac nerf, how is affli standing now? I know it had amazing scaling (still lower than fire mages) but arent these nerfs a bit overboard?
    It's quite fine, because dots and haunt were buffed before, as well as nightfall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Why are people saying that affliction does so much more damage with SoC than demo or destro with immo/RoF? Currently, SoC is about 36% of affliction's Aoe and immo is about 36% of demo's AoE. RoF is the only spell slightly behind at 27%.

    As for anyone saying F&B needs to be added to MF, that would now make MF affect 100% of our AoE or if you took RoF out it would affect 74%. The only logical solution would be to make MF buff RoF by ~150-200% while keeping demo and affli at 100%.
    Some actual numbers, assuming 40% haste, 17k mastery rating, 35k spellpower:

    Destruction AoE, casting first FnB:Immolate, then RoF, then 4x FnB:Incinerate
    378k total damage per target

    Affliction AoE, casting 5.5x SoC, with the first one Soulburned:
    407k total damage per target

    Obviously this is a very specific situation, but I think it indicates the AoE these two specs put out during MF will be quite close. Of course Destruction would need to spend quite a few embers on it, but that's just how their AoE works. Demo omitted for now, didn't have time to figure out what exactly you would cast.

  20. #2300
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    Explain me how you account SoC for only 36% of afflictions AoE, while it's the only AoE spell affliction has, apart from a channeled RoF that we pretty much never use.
    I'm simply going off the Sims, and they have affliction for 8 target AoE casting SB:SoC then spreading DoTs with SB:SS on top of casting regular SoC. Seeing how SoC crits for under 100k without CDs or other short term buffs, that's not really a lot of damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strmstrike View Post
    It's quite fine, because dots and haunt were buffed before, as well as nightfall.

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    Some actual numbers, assuming 40% haste, 17k mastery rating, 35k spellpower:

    Destruction AoE, casting first FnB:Immolate, then RoF, then 4x FnB:Incinerate
    378k total damage per target

    Affliction AoE, casting 5.5x SoC, with the first one Soulburned:
    407k total damage per target

    Obviously this is a very specific situation, but I think it indicates the AoE these two specs put out during MF will be quite close. Of course Destruction would need to spend quite a few embers on it, but that's just how their AoE works. Demo omitted for now, didn't have time to figure out what exactly you would cast.
    Does destro not cast F&B conflag?

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