Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Brusalk]

Meanwhile in destro land...

/depression

[ZakAtack]

I mean, technically he said "felt like an exploit," he didn't straight up say it was one. By the numbers gain just from getting UVLS though, it clearly is out of hand a little.

[Deleted]

IRREGARDLESS RPPM trinkets are frustrating beyond words, they cause an extremely large variance in dps based on rng ( which makes balancing hard ). I see no reason NOT to go back to the old ICD based procs where the gain of trinkets were consistent and everyclass could easily be balanced around instead of trying to balance around people getting 35-60% uptime on trinkets.... its absurd.

Well, you go ahead and use ICD during 5.4, I'm still planning to use one RPPM trinket. The problem with RNG is that trinket procs are a bit too good, so that something like UVLS not proccing within first 10-15 seconds on the pull can have too much impact. As long as the procs are a bit more toned down, the system is not bad imo, I wouldnt want it to completely go away.

[Deleted]

In its current form, what exactly is not bad about it? Roughly a proc every 2 minutes, except it's completely random when you get them and you might get them overlapping or none at all for 4+ minutes.

Not saying ICD is perfect, but the amount of randomness in the current implementation is way overboard.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile in destro land...

/depression

Actually I kinda like waiting for the buffs, it makes something to look forward too. It's when we will have gotten some crappy buff that I will be depressed

[pokeadott]

Yeah, crazy trinket procs and the re-revamped rppm system are starting to make dps seem a lot more like pulling a slot machine. How can you justify dps checks as encounter design if you're going to simultaneously allow for 10% dmg swings based on proc luck? Hope they eventually just go in a very different direction with trinket design.

[Deleted]

Yeah, crazy trinket procs and the re-revamped rppm system are starting to make dps seem a lot more like pulling a slot machine. How can you justify dps checks as encounter design if you're going to simultaneously allow for 10% dmg swings based on proc luck? Hope they eventually just go in a very different direction with trinket design.

Because the variations are rather low when you look at the whole raid (not just 1 demo lock) over the course of 10 minutes (not only at the pull).

[pokeadott]

Over the course of 10 minutes, sure. But when a single portion of the fight is a dps check (i.e. trying to only see a boss ability used once, kill X adds, etc.), that 10 minutes might become 1 minute or less. The impact of RNG megapowerful trinket procs during that all important minute isn't nearly as flat as when stretched over an entire raid.

[Jessicka]

I mean, technically he said "felt like an exploit," he didn't straight up say it was one. By the numbers gain just from getting UVLS though, it clearly is out of hand a little.

They knew before it went live that it would do strange things to some specs, they made a big enough fuss about it and made changes to Shadow and Balance because of it. A bit late to turn around and start telling us it feels exploitative.

[Deleted]

Over the course of 10 minutes, sure. But when a single portion of the fight is a dps check (i.e. trying to only see a boss ability used once, kill X adds, etc.), that 10 minutes might become 1 minute or less. The impact of RNG megapowerful trinket procs during that all important minute isn't nearly as flat as when stretched over an entire raid.

And do ICD trinkets guarantee a proc during the important phase or when u have to quickly kill an add? No, they are just as uncontrollable. Not random, but uncontrollable.

And the reason I said that variations are low during a whole fight throughout the whole raid is because you said this:

How can you justify dps checks as encounter design if you're going to simultaneously allow for 10% dmg swings based on proc luck?

No idea why you changed the subject to "need procs during a hard phase". And even if you want to talk about hard phases, the average raid dps still won't vary too much. Some of the raid members will get procs, others won't. It's not like every other try everybody gets procs or nobody gets procs.

[Deleted]

If you are racing for a certain amount of DPS, you could do many dozens of attempts if the boss is hard. What if you are close, but can only barely make it, as it often is for hc progress? Then you depend completely on getting procs, aka pure luck. Especially in 10m where you might have only 5 DPS, the spread between a lucky and unlucky try is more than big enough to make or break your pull.

[Jessicka]

No idea why you changed the subject to "need procs during a hard phase". And even if you want to talk about hard phases, the average raid dps still won't vary too much. Some of the raid members will get procs, others won't. It's not like every other try everybody gets procs or nobody gets procs.

This is why On Use trinkets.

[Brusalk]

Actually I kinda like waiting for the buffs, it makes something to look forward too. It's when we will have gotten some crappy buff that I will be depressed

I'm just upset that they're doing freakin' heroic raid testing when they haven't even compensated Destro a tiny bit for the RoF nerf. They did a numbers pass yesterday or the day before and there still wasn't any changes.

I'm just getting concerned that they're either not going to do it, or they're going to wait so long that we won't get a chance to adequately test the changes.

[Deleted]

This is why On Use trinkets.

Actually at least one on use trinket could be great. They certainly take at least as much skill as RPPM/ICD, in that you have to decide to use your trinket immediately or delay it for a proc/mechanic/resource. They don't fit with the devs plan of lowering burst on pull though.

[Deleted]

That would be wayyy too overpowered. I'm thinking maybe create a set bonus which has a similar proc to that of UVLS, for example:

*Your Doom ticks have a 40% increased chance to crit* or something like that.

I don't believe the trinket can be considered an exploit simply because it increases the damage by such an insane portion - an exploit is something which is unfair and abuses the intended game mechanics. I'm sure SOMEONE behind the creation of that item thought over what it would do for Demo, and therefore, it cannot be considered an exploit.

they should just change doom to 50% chance to summon a wild imp on tick or something and then go away from that whole "on crit" thing. the fact that it would heavily inflate the value of crit for a lock makes no sense, when every other spec we have avoids the stat like the plague, we're not mages after all.

[Deleted]

I'm just getting concerned that they're either not going to do it, or they're going to wait so long that we won't get a chance to adequately test the changes.

The latter will probably happen, it wouldn't surprise me at all. That's the issue with their "number pass at the end of the PTR" habit, we won't really test the changes.
Let's pray for an overshot then, so we can at least have fun during the first week before the nerfs :P

[Deleted]

This is why On Use trinkets.

Yes but that's a different topic, we were debating ICD vs RPPM. I'm all up for active trinkets, even though I doubt they will add such trinkets from raids, seeing as they haven't done so for a very long time :<

They tend to get macroed to class cooldowns tho, which is why blizz avoids to add them (or at least one of the reasons).

[Deleted]

Yes but that's a different topic, we were debating ICD vs RPPM. I'm all up for active trinkets, even though I doubt they will add such trinkets from raids, seeing as they haven't done so for a very long time :<

They tend to get macroed to class cooldowns tho, which is why blizz avoids to add them (or at least one of the reasons).

This post says quite clearly they are planning to bring them back. It also says there should be completely passive trinkets, which we also don't have yet.

Personally I would love if there is 1 of each out of RPPM, ICD, on-use and passive. The fifth could be the cleave trinket, because it's situational. It's probably too much to ask for 4 closely balanced trinkets though, considering they have to be balanced for many specs at the same time.

[Seezer]

What is this from? http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145082

[PickleballAce]

What is this from? http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145082

T16 two set bonus for Aff:

http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145072