Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Jessicka]

This poster is all over FB and Twitter too, so it's real. There's plenty of time to fix Destro and compensate for UVLS.

[Grizelda]

In niche situations, there are "OP" specs for all classes. Just look at demo on multi dot fights, Council being a PRIME example. Granted, the strength comes from UVLS, but still, that reasoning behind why they wouldn't want to buff destro doesn't really hold water.

I didn't say it was a good reason.

[Thelm]

This poster is all over FB and Twitter too, so it's real. There's plenty of time to fix Destro and compensate for UVLS.

Crossing my fingers for Destro.

Also, I can't wait to get rid of this freaking UVLS.

[Ebonwraith]

Yeah, it's up on bnet, patch drop is 100% confirmed to be the 10th now, barring Blizzard HQ exploding.

[sasofrass]

5.4 is definitely delayed to September 10th.

> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/107...mmar-8_21_2013

The picture has 09.10.13 and that is all the proof this guy needs :l

[Ebonwraith]

I'm both happy and disappointed with the new date. I was really looking forward to hitting up SoO next week, but if this means that destro will get some love, I can be patient.

[TheBGreene]

There is, and it's a simple fix that contains absolutely no negative repercussions in PvE, nor PvP, and I can't fathom for the life of me why the fuck they haven't done it yet.

Immolate ticks generate 1 emberbit.
Immolate crit ticks generate 2 emberbits.

It doesn't affect our AoE at all, because currently on a good AoE fight on live we're ember capped 99.9% of the time anyway, and it just fixes what Zumzum was reporting a few pages back about how Destro can't even sustain 6 target AoE anymore on the PTR (iirc that's the number he said, please correct me if I'm mistaken) because the RoF ember generation nerf means we're ember negative when using FnB.

It doesn't affect our single target at all, because the ember generation would be pretty bloody close to that of current RoF's, meaning we can still pump out something close to the same number of ember consumers as we currently do.

And it won't affect PvP at all, because it's no worse than the enemy standing in RoF you've dropped on the ground in terms of gaining you embers... Plus the fact it's so easily dispelled.

And on top of that it likely won't affect our stat priorities at all, and nor would it encourage odd gameplay, as it's already a core part of our rotation as it is.

This could basically be applied to all 3. This would also then lead to crit being a desired stat which in turn increases the damage of CB without buffing the base damage, thus having 0 pvp implication of CB being too "OP" (even though its not even close to good anymore).

[Kagecamia]

This poster is all over FB and Twitter too, so it's real. There's plenty of time to fix Destro and compensate for UVLS.

Fixing destro is plausible since they haven't seen any buffs to the spec besides immolate buff. This i could see happening.

However compensation for UVLS for demo? Not a chance

[Brusalk]

There is, and it's a simple fix that contains absolutely no negative repercussions in PvE, nor PvP, and I can't fathom for the life of me why the fuck they haven't done it yet.

Immolate ticks generate 1 emberbit.
Immolate crit ticks generate 2 emberbits.

It doesn't affect our AoE at all, because currently on a good AoE fight on live we're ember capped 99.9% of the time anyway, and it just fixes what Zumzum was reporting a few pages back about how Destro can't even sustain 6 target AoE anymore on the PTR (iirc that's the number he said, please correct me if I'm mistaken) because the RoF ember generation nerf means we're ember negative when using FnB.

It doesn't affect our single target at all, because the ember generation would be pretty bloody close to that of current RoF's, meaning we can still pump out something close to the same number of ember consumers as we currently do.

And it won't affect PvP at all, because it's no worse than the enemy standing in RoF you've dropped on the ground in terms of gaining you embers... Plus the fact it's so easily dispelled.

And on top of that it likely won't affect our stat priorities at all, and nor would it encourage odd gameplay, as it's already a core part of our rotation as it is.

Just buffing Immolate with that isn't enough to fully compensate for the RoF change. It requires more comprehensive changes.

Also, while that could certainly be a valid approach, I personally don't like it as that moves Destro more into a DoT-spec role rather than a Nuke-spec. Also, I believe they've said (and I agree with it, if true) that they're uncomfortable with Destro generating so many embers, and instead want to compensate by making the embers we do have worth more. (As it was pre-5.2)

[Ebonwraith]

Wouldn't that cause problems in pvp though? (not that I in ANY way agree with pve being screwed over by pvp) If we had our chaos bolts or shadowburns buffed to levels that would "fix" our dps issue now that RoF emberbit gen is gone, would that not cause those two spells to be over powered in pvp?

[junn]

Watched a couple streams of locks playing PTR affliction in 3's. Damage is way to high. Against both vanguards shaman (as ele) and pally, the lock on the other team consistently did more damage than Vanguards & hunter combined. Dark soul damage coming every 1 minute is too strong, when coupled with the UA/corr/agony buffs.

I think UA/Agony might get the "does 25% less damage to players" treatment. Either that or the warlock wear-down comps will dominate next season.

[Ebonwraith]

Are there not comps that own the leader boards every season..?

[roahn the warlock]

Are there not comps that own the leader boards every season..?

I miss when every spec brought its own buff to the table, so instead of having three of the top spec, you had one of each

[TheBGreene]

Also, I believe they've said (and I agree with it, if true) that they're uncomfortable with Destro generating so many embers, and instead want to compensate by making the embers we do have worth more. (As it was pre-5.2)

But then don't you fall into the "too op for pvp"? There is really only one direction to go with that...buffing the ember consumers. You would then have to make an adjustment to the pvp side of things because of the uproar from the community that CB actually does damage again, opposed to hitting like a wet noodle.

We are all in agreement that something HAS to be done because they have essentially cut off destro's legs with the RoF nerf. Unfortunately there are really only two directions to go and I think one of them has far too large of a pvp implication.

[Ciani]

Right now I only have UVLS and hydra for trinkets. Is uvls really that terrible come 5.4? Also, do we still stack haste as aff next patch? Dos demo go back to a crit heavy build?

[TheBGreene]

Right now I only have UVLS and hydra for trinkets. Is uvls really that terrible come 5.4? Also, do we still stack haste as aff next patch? Dos demo go back to a crit heavy build?

UVLS is going to be complete garbage imo, they messed with the RPPM of it and its going to proc even less than it does now come 5.4. If you are going affliction for 5.4 your two trinkets should be Wush and Hydra. If you can get your hands on a H or HTF Wush you will probably be hanging onto it for quite some time.

There is still debate, and without a final numbers pass its speculation, but since I like to speculate I can tell you the damage of our dots is going up and you will ultimately be channeling less for affliction. With that said, I think it will be best to go for the 9778 or 13787 bp and going full mast after the desired amount is reached.

In regards to Demo, I cannot speak for that, but crit heavy seems to be a viable option, but of course if you do this, the cross functionality for spec swapping will not be as smooth.

[Jetjaguar]

Also, while that could certainly be a valid approach, I personally don't like it as that moves Destro more into a DoT-spec role rather than a Nuke-spec.

How is that? The identity of a dot spec is that the dots do a large bulk of the damage which isn't the case for Destro at all and a change that increases the resource generated through the dot tick rather than the damage of the dot tick doesn't drastically change the damage distribution. It's a lot like an Assassination Rogue's Rupture which does a minuscule amount of damage however the venomous wounds damage and energy regen makes Rupture worth keeping up at all costs

[jason1975]

Am I the only one of the opinion that it's unlikely Destro will be buffed more, and very likely that Afflic & Demo will be severely nerfed instead?

GC has said "locks and mages are too high" like a million times, and mages took some nerfs to the face recently.

[Brusalk]

But then don't you fall into the "too op for pvp"? There is really only one direction to go with that...buffing the ember consumers. You would then have to make an adjustment to the pvp side of things because of the uproar from the community that CB actually does damage again, opposed to hitting like a wet noodle.

We are all in agreement that something HAS to be done because they have essentially cut off destro's legs with the RoF nerf. Unfortunately there are really only two directions to go and I think one of them has far too large of a pvp implication.

Yeah, you do, and it is a problem.

That said, they already have a 25% reduction against players in place. Don't see why they couldn't buff that reduction if required.

- - - Updated - - -

Am I the only one of the opinion that it's unlikely Destro will be buffed more, and very likely that Afflic & Demo will be severely nerfed instead?

GC has said "locks and mages are too high" like a million times, and mages took some nerfs to the face recently.

Sure, but Destro is at the point where single target is behind every other spec by miles. They've also specifically stated that the intention with the RoF change wasn't to nerf destro, but instead to change the mechanics and that compensation for the change would be made.

[TheBGreene]

Am I the only one of the opinion that it's unlikely Destro will be buffed more, and very likely that Afflic & Demo will be severely nerfed instead?

GC has said "locks and mages are too high" like a million times, and mages took some nerfs to the face recently.

They technically did nerf them in a sense. They didn't want Locks channeling as much, they nerfed MG/DS and buffed our dots. They didn't want Demo abusing UVLS, they nerfed RPPM trinkets in general...