1. #3261
    Because chain lightning is strong should ele have single target below enhance's fire ele? Since destro could cheese AoE in 5.3 should it do single target that is a tier behind other specs? If shadowburn > havoc sniping is so problematic then take the spell off havoc and fix the damn spec already. Destro's AoE presently isn't sustainable vs common size aoe packs. Did we "fix" single target enough yet? The aoe is broken, single target is a joke, and the only time the spec works is spamming its execute....that REALLY sound like a product well done? Oh and it has a pvp prejudice more in keeping with civil rights violations than anything resembling logic or math.

    The "well when you can snipe shadowburns excessively" is the same as saying dps warriors are fine if they can find a fight where they can spam execute but on any fight with normal mechanics they completely faceplant. Maybe destro needs some nerfs. Plus the ostrich "head in the sand" mentality of the devs will not budge. We show them terrible parses and they say "well people play what's dominant so you don't see good destro locks" blah blah even when its world class/top 20 level players.

    Just what IS the burden of proof for destro hitting like a 102lb flirting cheerleader?

  2. #3262
    Fluffy Kitten Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    Because people spent too much time QQing about Immolate being a core part of Destruction and that "dispels counter us so hard". So, Blizzard made Immolate almost useless in PvP to satisfy all the wannabes that thought it would be the fix to Destro PvP. Funny thing is that dispelling Immolate was far from being the biggest problem, especially in 3s.
    Although the real problem was not immolate but conflagrate requiring immolate to be active on your target. With the current version of conflagrate and the glyph and the changes to dispels being on a 8 second cooldown, it shouldn't be much of a deal to buff up both the instant damage and the dot of it.

    Honestly, I'm not sure if destro really needs compensating, or at least not a big one seeing it is doing fine on most fights in SoO from what I've seen so far.

  3. #3263
    If you do heroics, I see no reason to gush about Destro on Garrosh. The single target is so bad and the first phase is so meaningless that affliction is much better off in the latter phases simply because it's single target DPS is so superior which WILL be important on Heroic Mode.

  4. #3264
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Honestly, I'm not sure if destro really needs compensating, or at least not a big one seeing it is doing fine on most fights in SoO from what I've seen so far.
    I played with numerous locks during the 25m testing and Destro was lagging behind compared to Demo. And way behind compared to Affliction. Of course, you have your few niche fights, but it really needs some help to be viable in heroic imo.

  5. #3265
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjaguar View Post
    If you do heroics, I see no reason to gush about Destro on Garrosh. The single target is so bad and the first phase is so meaningless that affliction is much better off in the latter phases simply because it's single target DPS is so superior which WILL be important on Heroic Mode.
    This and not to mention if you want to kill weapons without wrecking any of your normal DPS you'll need your swapped dots to take care of them. As fun as Destro will be for padding with SBurn it won't be that effective.

  6. #3266
    The only fight I see destro out performing Aff is in Spoils and maybe Galakras due to the quick paced trash/cleave fest that those fights are with a lot of shadowburn snipings. Of course SS dots onto everything will probably be comparable and a lot better single target DPS as well. MF+SoC spam is also great for the big waves in Galakras and on top of the towers where there are 8+ mobs.

  7. #3267
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
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    So i did some sleuthing on raid testing for the next tier, and I saw the damage arcane can pump out in SoO.

    It makes demo in TOT with UVLS look balanced.....

  8. #3268
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    arcane can always do high damage of it can stand still long enough.

  9. #3269
    It's late and I've been helping my brother move all day, but somehow we should get them to apply the "your most recently applied corruption" technology to buff immolate for single target.

    Most recently applied immolate does something something. Keeping it single target, and thus putting immolate back on the table for single-target compensation for the RoF ember generation nerf.

    I'd like a proc -- maybe a free SBurn usable at any health ... ? I dunno. Maybe have it proc a buff to your next CB or SBurn ?

    And I definitely think Backdraft should be changed to crit chance rather than haste buff. But, dammit, I can't think of very many things to do with Destro at all that doesn't buff its aoe, unless we just do a nerf to FnB ... which, actually, I think is a good idea.

    I think it's fine if one spec is particularly better at given niches (single-target, two/three cleave, aoe) but I think they all should be viable for most levels of raiding. Maybe I'm asking for too much for what is probably a small slice of the greater population ... not quite the level that would regem/reforge on a per-fight basis, but still where performance matters enough you keep the two specs best-suited for the most situations you'd find in a given tier ... idk ... tangent I guess, haha
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  10. #3270
    I haven't been following the whole thread since it started and apologies if this was touched on in a previous post but how bad is the T16 4pc bonus for Affliticon and Demo ?

  11. #3271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devious009 View Post
    I haven't been following the whole thread since it started and apologies if this was touched on in a previous post but how bad is the T16 4pc bonus for Affliticon and Demo ?
    its dog shit. Let your fellow raiders enjoy their 4pc, get 2pc and be happy.

  12. #3272
    Quote Originally Posted by Cebel View Post
    its dog shit. Let your fellow raiders enjoy their 4pc, get 2pc and be happy.
    Yeah. Here's the thing. A lot of people have been speculating that it will be "dog shit," yet there aren't any numbers to back that up. I can see where that is probably true for Affliction, but Demo doesn't sound completely terrible as long as the bugs are worked out.

    My advice is to reserve judgment until we have a definitive answer via simcraft.

  13. #3273
    I'm more concerned about 4pc on multi target fights rather than single target. Lately I've been using 90% of my shards on PTR on haunt since the new Soul Swap so 4pc proccing off rolling haunts on multiple targets might be nice depending on how strong it is multi target
    Last edited by Jetjaguar; 2013-08-25 at 07:41 AM.

  14. #3274
    Atleast, are we mid high on dps rankings on most fights in SoO??

  15. #3275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    My advice is to reserve judgment until we have a definitive answer via simcraft.

    LOL! 10chars

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    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-08-25 at 04:46 PM.

  16. #3276
    Pandaren Monk Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    What is the current consensus regarding the imp swarm glyph? On live the imps did nice damage when under dark soul, and were vital to maintaining fury and molten core stacks on the pull, but I'm interested how the changes to rppm and duration of wush/hydra will change that. Especially if we have trinkets that most likely won't proc straight away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Was that really a signature worthy quote?

  17. #3277
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    What is the current consensus regarding the imp swarm glyph? On live the imps did nice damage when under dark soul, and were vital to maintaining fury and molten core stacks on the pull, but I'm interested how the changes to rppm and duration of wush/hydra will change that. Especially if we have trinkets that most likely won't proc straight away.
    I haven't done any math to go with what I'm about to say, but I assume because you only spawn 4 imps and the cooldown remains the same that it will be a DPS loss to use the glyph unless you need to burst something down.

  18. #3278
    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    I haven't done any math to go with what I'm about to say, but I assume because you only spawn 4 imps and the cooldown remains the same that it will be a DPS loss to use the glyph unless you need to burst something down.
    i assume that when you say "the coolddown remains the same" that the cooldown is still reduced by haste, atleast thats how it is on the ptr.

    also, from what ive read, the imp swarm will still be a dps buff, just a lot less compared to live, as on live there really wasnt any way you could use imp swarm without it being a dps boost, on the ptr, you'd pretty much have to line it up with dark soul or its a dps loss.

  19. #3279
    Pandaren Monk Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Yeah I should have clarified that I'm aware that it now only provides 4 imps, just trying to work out specific situations where it will be worth it.

    When trinkets will still proc on the pull, say for example wush or the amp or even timeless isle, and whilst we're still using 2 pc t15, I would presume the extra fury and molten core procs would be much sought after. But once we transition back to using ToC more during meta (and especially on the pull, where we might not have stuff proc) it won't be worth it.

    Like you said, I guess the tradeoff is burst vs sustained, but my main question lies in how much it will gimp our opening burst if we drop the glyph in situations where we will still dark soul on the pull.

    P.s. sorry if this comes across a bit incoherent, on my phone and it's hard to edit large paragraphs!
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Was that really a signature worthy quote?

  20. #3280
    Just screwing around on dummies I'm actually seeing no glyph demo doing a bit better than with the glyph. Especially with an aff haste/mastery setup. That said I'd use the glyph on fights with intense burn phases. I also think professions will make a difference...ie eng+herb might favor glyph use while a pair of passive 320 int professions will favor going glyphless. Amp almost always procs in the first few spells but I think the days of 600K+ demo openers are gone. Aff however opens really hard. I was testing w' 5xT16 though I wouldn't pursue the set bonus beyond the 2pc/soulfire buff. Aff I'd forget sets completely and just find the highest ilvl haste/mastery piece I could get.

    Demo still gets less from KTT and cleave trinkets due to imps not functioning with those trinkets (nor the amp's crit bonus). Timeless is a fine trinket to pair with amp but we really have no heroic equivalent. Then again aff can't get its hands on a heroic BBoY till progression is done.

    Just can't see destro being a solid spec choice in that the legendary meta still caps the gcd incredibly easy, aoe feels unsustainable on 4-6 targets, and the single target is so bad as to drop you like a rock the moment you aren't aoe'ing 10+ targets or havoc/shadowburn sniping. If we are balancing it on the assumption of only being viable when it can cheese mechanics then the mechanics need to change but I digress....

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