1. #3741
    Haunt now deals 50% more damage, and increases damage done by all of the Warlock's damage-over-time spells against the target by 40%.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...ber_4-9_4_2013

  2. #3742
    Mechagnome ZaneBusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    I think he means the same as you, that RoF is good because it provides all these additional chaos bolts. Him calling them weak was just to differentiate them from the uber buffed dark soul + trinket chaos bolts we would otherwise be saving our embers for. I think.
    No, he's arguing against it, saying that RoF is bad for single target. Look at his post I quoted at the top of this page. (My post, #3721)

    Quote Originally Posted by Schirm View Post
    Haunt now deals 50% more damage, and increases damage done by all of the Warlock's damage-over-time spells against the target by 40%.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...ber_4-9_4_2013
    Awesome. A nice balancing nerf to affliction, bringing it slightly back in line with the other specs... Somewhat. (Was originally 45%)

  3. #3743
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaneBusby View Post
    Awesome. A nice balancing nerf to affliction, bringing it slightly back in line with the other specs... Somewhat. (Was originally 45%)
    our multi target will still be pretty high though
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  4. #3744
    Quote Originally Posted by Schirm View Post
    Haunt now deals 50% more damage, and increases damage done by all of the Warlock's damage-over-time spells against the target by 40%.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...ber_4-9_4_2013
    Chaos Bolt damage increased

  5. #3745
    Mechagnome ZaneBusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantelija View Post
    Chaos Bolt damage increased
    That's the same chaos bolt buff that was hotfixed, announced, and datamined last week. They're just adding it to the official patch notes today, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    our multi target will still be pretty high though
    No doubt. But I hate Affliction with a passion, so it just means that Demo will be that much more viable, and not completely blown out of the water by Afflic like it was in 5.0

  6. #3746
    PLEASE, explain to me what the hell you mean by "LOTS of weak chaos bolts", because I'm REALLY not getting you right now.
    Goddamit. Just log on ptr and see it yourself.
    RoF burns your mana. You have zero mana. And you are forced to cast chaos bolts just because you cannot cast anything else. Even FF. In most cases that CB has no buffs. That's what I call "weak" chaos bolt.
    You should have the same number of powered up (by 4set) Chaos Bolts as without casting RoF (otherwise you're just not playing well)
    You are forced to cast unbuffed CBs. That has nothing to do with good or bad playing. And you cannot do anything about that. And the reason is simple. Your average mana burn outweights your average mana regen. At some point (in a minute after the pull, in 2, 3, it doesn't matter) you'll stuck at zero mana.
    On live 5.3 you literally swim in embers compared to 5.4. You cast more Chaos Bolts -> gain more mana. And don't have such problems.
    EXTRA Chaos Bolts will ALWAYS be good.
    Not always. Those "extra" CBs come at a cost of weaking other spells. And I would like to emphasize that you are forced to weaken those spells.
    highest DPCT is cool. Hard to do the math???
    You sound like a simcraft monkey.
    Plain DPET doesn't take into account overall mana-to-embers conversion and resource stategy. You shouldn't compare DPETs of spells that use different resources if you are speaking about overall dps. In terms of a fixed time window when you don't have to worry about resources(you have infinite resources) that's probably true and you can say "CB is good because it has high dpct".
    Not only your RoF/Inc/FF decisions affect your chaos bolts, but also your chaos bolt casts affect your mana spells and other chaos bolts/shadowburns. That's why I said it's hard to calculate. In many cases it's random.

    And I have a perfect example of resource strategy: Unerring Vision of Lei Shen. Let's say you have 1 ember and suddenly Lei Shen trinket proced. You can use it for CB (almost doubles DPCT) or immolate (high DPCT + free embers for 1 "extra" CB).
    1)You choose to cast Chaos Bolt and that CB deals doubled damage. But in 10 seconds the target suddenly reaches 20% (And the fact that you didn't save that ember for shadowburn isn't necessarily a bad playing. For example you had zero mana or already started to cast CB during the proc). You continue your rotation whith shadowburns and stuff.
    2)You cast immolate. By the way that immolate has almost the same dpet as CB, just slighly less. After that you cast CB and the target reaches 20%. And you have 1 "extra" ember for 1 "extra" shadowburn.
    So which option is better? (1 CB with insane dpet + simple immolate) or (1 CB + 100% crit immolate + 1 "exta" shadowburn over the whole fight) ?

    And now imagine the whole fight with 10-20 "dilemmas" similar to that UVLS. Of cause there will be some average dpet for all chaos bolts in this fight, average dpet for incinerate etc.
    And now imagine another fight whith random procs. And you say that it was bad because the 1st fight had 3 less chaos bolts. And chaos bolts have huge dpet. And I say that it's hard to calculate because in the 2nd fight I had more flexibility and freedom in my resources choices.

    brb taking mah pills

  7. #3747
    Mechagnome ZaneBusby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walp View Post
    RoF burns your mana. You have zero mana. And you are forced to cast chaos bolts just because you cannot cast anything else. Even FF. In most cases that CB has no buffs. That's what I call "weak" chaos bolt. You are forced to cast unbuffed CBs. [which uses up your embers so you can't spend them on buffed CBs instead]
    This is all you had to say from the start. For 2 pages you never mentioned this, even once, and just went on and on about weak Chaos Bolts. Finally you've explained it, and now it makes sense. GG. The other 5 paragraphs of what you said was unnecessary detail, but I guess it at least shows you know what you're talking about at this point...

    But I'm still going to go out on a limb and say that RoF is still a DPS increase over Fel Flame or unbuffed Incinerate, just not worth keeping high (upwards of 50%) uptime, especially if it's eating your mana up too quick. If you have the mana, and are down to hard casting Incinerates or spamming Fel Flames, it's going to be better to use RoF in single target. (Which still proves the point that Blizz fucked up, and didn't get RoF out of the single target rotation fully, like they intended).


    Edit: I went back and double checked to see that I hadn't missed you saying it, and I guess you sort-of mentioned it in this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by walp View Post
    Well, you don't want RoF in your single target rotation for several reasons. But I personally think that the main reason is that RoF burns your mana.
    When you get 4T16 you'll want to buff all your Chaos Bolts with than 5 second buff. And if you use RoF too much you'll end with lots of weak Chaos Bolts.
    But the way you worded it was so terrible, I didn't pick up on it. I apologise for that.
    Last edited by ZaneBusby; 2013-09-05 at 06:19 AM.

  8. #3748
    Quote Originally Posted by walp View Post
    Goddamit. Just log on ptr and see it yourself.
    RoF burns your mana. You have zero mana. And you are forced to cast chaos bolts just because you cannot cast anything else. Even FF. In most cases that CB has no buffs. That's what I call "weak" chaos bolt.

    You are forced to cast unbuffed CBs. That has nothing to do with good or bad playing. And you cannot do anything about that. And the reason is simple. Your average mana burn outweights your average mana regen. At some point (in a minute after the pull, in 2, 3, it doesn't matter) you'll stuck at zero mana.
    On live 5.3 you literally swim in embers compared to 5.4. You cast more Chaos Bolts -> gain more mana. And don't have such problems.

    Not always. Those "extra" CBs come at a cost of weaking other spells. And I would like to emphasize that you are forced to weaken those spells.

    You sound like a simcraft monkey.
    Plain DPET doesn't take into account overall mana-to-embers conversion and resource stategy. You shouldn't compare DPETs of spells that use different resources if you are speaking about overall dps. In terms of a fixed time window when you don't have to worry about resources(you have infinite resources) that's probably true and you can say "CB is good because it has high dpct".
    Not only your RoF/Inc/FF decisions affect your chaos bolts, but also your chaos bolt casts affect your mana spells and other chaos bolts/shadowburns. That's why I said it's hard to calculate. In many cases it's random.

    And I have a perfect example of resource strategy: Unerring Vision of Lei Shen. Let's say you have 1 ember and suddenly Lei Shen trinket proced. You can use it for CB (almost doubles DPCT) or immolate (high DPCT + free embers for 1 "extra" CB).
    1)You choose to cast Chaos Bolt and that CB deals doubled damage. But in 10 seconds the target suddenly reaches 20% (And the fact that you didn't save that ember for shadowburn isn't necessarily a bad playing. For example you had zero mana or already started to cast CB during the proc). You continue your rotation whith shadowburns and stuff.
    2)You cast immolate. By the way that immolate has almost the same dpet as CB, just slighly less. After that you cast CB and the target reaches 20%. And you have 1 "extra" ember for 1 "extra" shadowburn.
    So which option is better? (1 CB with insane dpet + simple immolate) or (1 CB + 100% crit immolate + 1 "exta" shadowburn over the whole fight) ?

    And now imagine the whole fight with 10-20 "dilemmas" similar to that UVLS. Of cause there will be some average dpet for all chaos bolts in this fight, average dpet for incinerate etc.
    And now imagine another fight whith random procs. And you say that it was bad because the 1st fight had 3 less chaos bolts. And chaos bolts have huge dpet. And I say that it's hard to calculate because in the 2nd fight I had more flexibility and freedom in my resources choices.

    brb taking mah pills
    Your resource statement is cute, but an unrealistic scenario, considering top destro parses don't use UVLS. And in the case of it being a "dilemma"... there's always a concrete better thing to do, and that decision makes the difference between top players and the extreme top players.

  9. #3749
    +15% damage chaos bolt was deleted???

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...ber_4-9_4_2013

    and dot's damage from haunt? Is still +40%?

  10. #3750
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanatas View Post
    +15% damage chaos bolt was deleted???

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...ber_4-9_4_2013

    and dot's damage from haunt? Is still +40%?
    It's still there. It might be a little counter-intuitive but red means what they've added to the patch notes since the last official update.

    When they revert changes they tend to use a strikeout font like this.

  11. #3751
    with the recent changes to haunt, will demo outscale affliction singeltarget? or was affliction over the top that a nerf is justified?
    Last edited by Niyyu; 2013-09-05 at 11:57 AM.

  12. #3752
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    It's still there. It might be a little counter-intuitive but red means what they've added to the patch notes since the last official update.

    When they revert changes they tend to use a strikeout font like this.
    oh tnx

    the red font scare me

  13. #3753
    High Overlord savethetuna's Avatar
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    I wanted to raid SoO as affliction and nothing else but everyone keep's telling me demo. I'll see what goes down in the next few days so I can base my decision xD
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  14. #3754
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savethetuna View Post
    I wanted to raid SoO as affliction and nothing else but everyone keep's telling me demo. I'll see what goes down in the next few days so I can base my decision xD
    ...
    if you want to play affliction, then go for it, its the best dps spec on the PTR atm. Demo is actually the worst. I dont know how that could even be a dilema.
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  15. #3755
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    ...
    if you want to play affliction, then go for it, its the best dps spec on the PTR atm. Demo is actually the worst. I dont know how that could even be a dilema.
    Have you done any PTR testing? Demo is not far behind affliction.

  16. #3756
    dunno who everyone is but they must be high off their rocker.

    Unless you NEED burst aoe or the utility demo provides on any given fight affliction will outperform it no question.

  17. #3757
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    I know it's very early, but how is Affliction performing against the other classes' dps specs? Rough estimation of course.

  18. #3758
    It must have been favorable since they just nerfed it a bit.

  19. #3759
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeas View Post
    I know it's very early, but how is Affliction performing against the other classes' dps specs? Rough estimation of course.
    read the thread before you post ( even if its just the last post in this case, LOL )

  20. #3760
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeas View Post
    I know it's very early, but how is Affliction performing against the other classes' dps specs? Rough estimation of course.
    Number 1 on most fights, at worst top 3 on fights that don't favor us or when other classes AoE and we don't for any reason. Source: heroic PTR testing with decent guild.

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