1. #4041
    Herald of the Titans PickleballAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Not a Warlock among the lot of them.
    I'm not so sure they weren't engaging in a little ritual sacrifice as part of some faustian bargain to become famous in the first place. That's kind of Warlocky.

  2. #4042
    Strike me down for defending the dev team as they don't seem to plan anything ahead of time, but we have aff who is great, demo which is more than competitive, and now destro "might" also become competitive. Wonder how many classes can say they get the same care for 3 different specs.

  3. #4043
    Quote Originally Posted by Active8 View Post
    S Wonder how many classes can say they get the same care for 3 different specs.
    Mages? Shamans? Rogues?


    Need I go on?

  4. #4044
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    What is the haste amount that you need to hit the GCD during hero on incinerate? When I play destro with my current affliction build (9800 haste > m > h > c) it just feels so much better than m>c>h. It just feels like I am generating a lot more embers and with my two trinkets (currently wush and toxic totem) it feels like every time I fire a chaos bolt I have something up. Shrug, I don't have any numbers or anything to back up what I am saying since I raided affliction, it was all just feels.
    Last edited by sasofrass; 2013-09-14 at 07:01 AM.

  5. #4045
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    Mages? Shamans? Rogues?


    Need I go on?
    Personally only see fire-mages and assassination rogues in my raids, seemingly pigeonholed, been that way for a few patches aswell. If the other specs have been buffed maybe they're playing the wrong one though.

  6. #4046
    Deleted
    destro is fine now. stop crying. please.

  7. #4047
    The Patient
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    Destro is far from fine unless they revert the Fel Flame mana cost, which I see no reason not with the Incinerate ember and damage buffs.

  8. #4048
    The fel flame change was more about kicking demo in the nuts for using FF > shadowbolt with AD and going super mobile though ironically destro just took it in the pooper harder still. After seeing what people who tried destro did in our 2x 25m's up through paragons the last 3 nights I'm comfortable saying these buffs are still not even close to enough. We are talking a 20% negative gap on a neutral fight, more than 20% back on a fight playing to aff/demo, and probably 15% back on a fight playing to the havoc/shadowburn destro niche. These buffs don't come anywhere close to that. The people testing these had PTR experience, 545+ilvl, etc...

    The fel flame thing was heavy handed and unnecessary. Once you got a 4pc as demo you'd use shadowbolt. The changes to destro recently just put incinerate comfortably in the lead again. Aff wants MG much more than FF anyhow. There was really no reason to do it. Demo just will lifetap more, aff doesn't care, and destro is just screwed lol so all they did was hurt the weakest spec the most.

  9. #4049
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    The fel flame change was more about kicking demo in the nuts for using FF > shadowbolt with AD and going super mobile though ironically destro just took it in the pooper harder still. After seeing what people who tried destro did in our 2x 25m's up through paragons the last 3 nights I'm comfortable saying these buffs are still not even close to enough. We are talking a 20% negative gap on a neutral fight, more than 20% back on a fight playing to aff/demo, and probably 15% back on a fight playing to the havoc/shadowburn destro niche. These buffs don't come anywhere close to that. The people testing these had PTR experience, 545+ilvl, etc...

    The fel flame thing was heavy handed and unnecessary. Once you got a 4pc as demo you'd use shadowbolt. The changes to destro recently just put incinerate comfortably in the lead again. Aff wants MG much more than FF anyhow. There was really no reason to do it. Demo just will lifetap more, aff doesn't care, and destro is just screwed lol so all they did was hurt the weakest spec the most.
    Pretty much this. You only lifetap out of meta as demo anyway, so it doesn't really change a whole lot. Destro is still probably going to be far from fine even on its niche. Galakras I seemed to do alright on as Destro, but other than that it's not really spectacular by any means.

  10. #4050
    Quote Originally Posted by Xploits View Post
    Destro is far from fine unless they revert the Fel Flame mana cost, which I see no reason not with the Incinerate ember and damage buffs.
    What do you base this upon? Destruction is far from at the bottom of meters, at least it has potential to be. It depends a lot on the tactics your guild runs with, because that spec is the one that suffers the most from bad synergy between DPSers (as in other classes sniping your shadowburns, extended time on situations that are awkward for destruction). If you run in a 10m guild and you basically have monopoly on executes, Destruction is like the holy grail of warlock specs.

    Not so much in 25s in my experience, though...
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  11. #4051
    So Blizzard says they want CB to be fewer and farther between, and then they give us some RNG that has a CHANCE at producing more CBs? I just don't understand their design plan for destro anymore lol. I imagine this will help AoE sustainability. Personally in regard to the fel flame filler schtick, I don't see what the big deal is. It was hardly breaking the meters, so just let it be I say. It would've allowed a different playstyle for at least a single tier.
    Those who you know as Warlocks are your Salvation through Destruction. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

  12. #4052
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowygoodness View Post
    Personally in regard to the fel flame filler schtick, I don't see what the big deal is. It was hardly breaking the meters, so just let it be I say. It would've allowed a different playstyle for at least a single tier.
    They did the same back in Cata when some people were using Drain Life as filler for Aff. Thing is, it makes it easier to balance when everyone's basically playing the spec the same way, not using different fillers.

  13. #4053
    Easier to balance != balanced and destro was nowhere close in any situation. Also sniping 20% adds isn't a spec. Its a way a gimp spec can look a little better on the meters. If you can't kill a paragon before another wave/mechanic or garrosh gets another weapon/phase off its bad news no matter what you did to low HP adds that would likely die from cleave anyhow. (standing next to a target getting HoG'd, warriors period, etc)

    If they don't want FF as a filler they already fixed destro so it wouldn't want to. All this change does is make FF a trap that oom's destro in about 5 casts and makes void ray so terrible you could/should delete it from your spellbook if possible. Is there possibly another spell that does so little for so much? Are there ever enough targets in a line that it could even balance to its cost (esp since it no longer refreshes). I mean...clearly the devs didn't think that out. They just kneejerked and wen't "zomg locks are using a movement spell on movement lets break that" with no thought whatsoever to the consequences beyond discouraging that one thing. That ironically they didn't stop the biggest offender (demo) at all. They just pissed off the raid healers and crapped on destro some more.

  14. #4054
    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    What is the haste amount that you need to hit the GCD during hero on incinerate? When I play destro with my current affliction build (9800 haste > m > h > c) it just feels so much better than m>c>h. It just feels like I am generating a lot more embers and with my two trinkets (currently wush and toxic totem) it feels like every time I fire a chaos bolt I have something up. Shrug, I don't have any numbers or anything to back up what I am saying since I raided affliction, it was all just feels.
    Ignoring all other haste multipliers, 1090 is all it takes to hit the GCD on Incinerate with Backdraft charges. Without Backdraft, you'd need 19772 haste.
    Back when dot snapshotting was a thing, I wrote this piece of junk.

  15. #4055
    Seems like lowering our GCD would be a great way to help Destro. Haste would be more valuable.

    At least on incinerate.

    Could you imagine half the GCD on Shadowburn? Muahahahahahahahah

  16. #4056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Seems like lowering our GCD would be a great way to help Destro. Haste would be more valuable.

    At least on incinerate.

    Could you imagine half the GCD on Shadowburn? Muahahahahahahahah
    that would be nice but id rather have backdraft give an equivalent amount of crit or mastery.

  17. #4057
    Crit devalues at a point though. And there is quite a bit of crit out there atm.

    I know it doesnt cap on CB, but still...

  18. #4058
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    Now, I have no numbers to back up what I'll say so take this with a grain of salt, but what if instead of using backdraft charges for incinerate you instead used them for chaos bolt, thus increasing the value of haste? I am not sure what kind of damage loss there would be for making a change like this, but maybe if this was done you could get more haste and with faster casting incinerates you'd generate more embers for fast chaos bolts? Like I said, no numbers or anything to back this up, just a thought.

  19. #4059
    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    Now, I have no numbers to back up what I'll say so take this with a grain of salt, but what if instead of using backdraft charges for incinerate you instead used them for chaos bolt, thus increasing the value of haste? I am not sure what kind of damage loss there would be for making a change like this, but maybe if this was done you could get more haste and with faster casting incinerates you'd generate more embers for fast chaos bolts? Like I said, no numbers or anything to back this up, just a thought.
    Not worth it. At all.

    Only exception is if using Backdraft to CBolt lets you cast a Chaos Bolt when you otherwise wouldn't have been able to, and would cap embers in the meantime, or if it lets you get a freakishly powerful Chaos Bolt that you wouldn't have otherwise been able to cast.

  20. #4060
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Not worth it. At all.

    Only exception is if using Backdraft to CBolt lets you cast a Chaos Bolt when you otherwise wouldn't have been able to, and would cap embers in the meantime, or if it lets you get a freakishly powerful Chaos Bolt that you wouldn't have otherwise been able to cast.
    Also, what do you think about sacrifice with the buffs to incinerate and bolt? I find myself on most fights able to cast a bolt frequently and with the change it should be even more. I haven't done numbers, so I can't be certain if it'd be worth it yet.

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