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  1. #81
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Yes, ES is dispelable and on PTR will be too. It just gives the effect of the final burst when it is. It's just a not enough damage to be worth using on PVP Ret.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  2. #82
    ES should deal double damage against players.

  3. #83
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    ES should deal double damage against players.
    EXACTLY. Blizzard works 200% on something and are really slow/dumb on others.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  4. #84
    Ret was already good in 5.2 and insanely good in 5.3
    I dont think they really plan for ret to become an unstoppable god, patch note is probably incomplete

  5. #85
    I hope they address our movement talents as well. It would be nice if something other than Long Arm of the Law was viable.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    ES should deal double damage against players.
    Why? 10 chars.

  7. #87
    Burden of Guilt Your Judgment hits fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 50% for 12 sec. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent. Your Turn Evil now also affects Humanoids and Beasts. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent.
    I don't agree with this change at all. The last thing I wanted to see in PvP was MORE FEARS. The people bouncing up and down about how good this is, are in my firm opinion, forgetting how god damn annoying this is going to be in the hands of enemy Holy Paladins and Rets now fearbombing us more.

    Did you people who think this is good completely lose your minds and forget HOW SUSCEPTIBLE to FEAR we are?!?
    We needed something to help break fear or endure damage while under it, not cause more of it and thereby subject ourselves to it more. Good Lord wake up!
    The change to Divine Protection being usable during stuns in 5.3 was nice for Deep Freeze, and the 30 sec cd change in 5.4 makes it even nicer so we can hold our own against mages without having to rely so heavily on Divine Shield, but why was it never changed to work during fears as well like Hand of Purity?

    And I pray to god we are not completely loosing Burden of Guilt. "No one uses it anyways." That is a LOAD OF CRAP! That is a incredibly ignorant statement made by the original poster. Bad palys don't use it, good palys DO. Good palys use it because good palys know WHEN to use it. Which is: vs casters and healers and hunters, and ww Monks and Rogues in conjunction with Harsh Words. While Fist is for vs other melee targets.

    I'm one of those Ret PvP'rs that graduated out of Fist of Justice highschool and is now in Burden of Overpowered Guilt graduate school and now murders the hell outa people. Losing this is gonna suck balls because Seal of Justice still doesn't fit the bill with all the Disengages, Blinks, Torpedo Rolls, Heroic Leaps, etc. Did we get a teleport I'm not aware of? How you gonna range snare someone without this now?

    Rets don't need a ranged snare now? Da hell crack are some of you smoking? Pass me some. Obviously I'm missing something after playing Ret PvP for all 4 expansions now.


    Stay of Execution change
    Now this one is a 'who cares' because 'no one ever uses it in PvP anyways'. They still won't any more then they are going to use Light's Hammer. Holy Prism > all still. The end.

    Hand of Purity change
    This is nice to see.

    Unbreakable Spirit change
    Potentially MASSIVE!! ENORMOUS! PORN STAR SIZE CHANGE! Why? With cd's put to under 5 mins, will Lay on Hands now be available in RATED PvP? Will we finally be able to hands in Arenas? OMFG tell us yes? 2.5 great bubbles? and DP? Wowzers...
    IF so, this just became the hands down winner between Hand of Purity and Clemency (outside of running with 2 cast 1 melee teams).

    This change is just... monstrous!

    Guardian of Ancient Kings change
    AWESOME! And LONG OVER DUE Thank You Blizz!! Holy hell yes!

    Inquisition Duration Change
    This is for people who run Holy Avenger. Not for people running Divine Purpose, because Inq can already proc DP. It's easy to keep Inq up with a DP build. So this change is to make the downtime with HA a little less unbare-able.

    Turn Evil Changes
    BLARF! Not looking forward to being subjected to more fears in PvP. Not one bit!


    Summary:
    Welcome to the end of an expansion let's over-buff ret and then have to nerf it into the ground for the next expac. This happens _every_freaking_time.
    It'll be nice. Enjoy the shit while it lasts and understand why we're going to suck ass at the start of 6.0. and won't be viable again until halfway through wutever the hell the next is gonna be called.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    So if nothing changes (and it will)

    1) Big problem with the Inquisition maintanence: mostly gone - orgasms here.
    2) Big problem I AWAYS asked for instant Repentance: now we get Turn Evil on Humanoids + Glyph to be instant on 15 secs CD.
    3) Execution sentence being dispelable sucks - now its just bad.
    4) Umbreakable Spirit can be considered for RBGs maybe for survival...
    5) Guardian on 3 mins AAAAWWWWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAHHH!!!

    We're still low on survivability but it's getting there.

    **Talents
    Burden of Guilt Your Judgment hits fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 50% for 12 sec. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent. Your Turn Evil now also affects Humanoids and Beasts. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent.



    Not to rain on your parade, but a genuine concern here, and no I'm not discounting the great buffs rets are getting.
    Q. So what is now our gap closer, changing seals again lol?

  9. #89
    Brewmaster Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceape View Post
    Q. So what is now our gap closer, changing seals again lol?
    We're not losing long arm of the law.. thats a gap closer... BoG is a snare that complimented our gap closer.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    Ret was already good in 5.2 and insanely good in 5.3
    What ? Then my ww monk is god.

  11. #91
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceape View Post
    **Talents
    Burden of Guilt Your Judgment hits fill your target with doubt and remorse, reducing movement speed by 50% for 12 sec. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent. Your Turn Evil now also affects Humanoids and Beasts. Paladin - LvL 30 Talent.



    Not to rain on your parade, but a genuine concern here, and no I'm not discounting the great buffs rets are getting.
    Q. So what is now our gap closer, changing seals again lol?
    What you rather depend on others? Snare or CC?

    I rather have a crappy snare and a nice CC than the other way arround. Not even a comparison.

    1) If I land a CC on a healer, I even have TIME to run to the DPS AND land a kill. I loss the count of how many times I run to blind a healer and run back to kill the DPS. Big problem is that Blind is on 2 mins CD. If it were on 30/40 secs, it would be OK.
    2) If there is a Lock/Mage for instance killing someone and my team needs a peel... what could save the day, a snare or a CC? Not even needs to be a Fear, a SILENCE is fine here. Hell, the old glyph of Magic BoP could solve a big part of the problem.

    Can't you just use HoF on yourself and Judge if someone gets out of your range? I NEVER have a problem with Disengage/Roll - I just lose about 3 secs of uptime that I just hit Judge/Exo/Prism.

    I'm playing on 2k/2.2k MMR and I never miss a snare. Always miss a CC to land a kill and to peel. It's really hard to use a Sacrifice to mitigate damage, it's mostly dispels and BoP only holds for physical, not to mention forberance and CD after the second use.

    A CC is WAY more reliable for EVERYTHING. I'm not even getting into RBGs here.


    For people who thinks this is WRONG becouse the game has already TOO MUCH CC/Fears - I agree with you. And I think Blizzard should REMOVE the excess of CCs (they agree too, it's just too much to change mid expansion as they say) - but if they WON'T remove from the others, they must give to the spec/class that needs it.

    It's the wrong way to do the right thing.

    Better broken and balanced than just broken.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 05:47 PM ----------

    Only situation I'm fked up and can't reach for my target is when they teleport out of LoS/range. And BoG don't help me with that - I really think that's OP (Monk and Lock teleport) and portals of course, but the "blink" effect makes them go to the other side of the arena, 2yds of the pillar, so I can't get a Judge in time and even if I get, they're already out of LoS and I have to run there anyway.

    The game as it is, I stun the healer as my CC to land a kill on a DPS. Stun is not suposed to be a CC to hold of someone, Stun is on the target for the kill. The game design is clear when you look and realise blizzard expected Ret to use Repentance to hold off a healer but they went nuts with the casting we could never make. That's why I always QQd for a Ret only Instant Repentance and a 1 min Blind.

    Ret CC already sucks as it is. Repentance and Blind NEVER makes to its full duration since ANY dot break them. Ret can't cast Rep, Blind CD is too long. Stun is suposed to be on the target.

    Can you understand what I mean?
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by solvexx View Post
    Blizz just clarified the Guardian change:


    Retribution
    Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Retribution version) now has a reduced cooldown of 3 minutes, down from 5 minutes, and the maximum number of stacks has been reduced to 12.


    Still a huge buff.
    It's not a huge buff with the reduced stacks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xnon22 View Post
    lay on hand can be used in arenas , OMG


    Unbreakable Spirit has been simplified. It now reduces the cooldown on Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Lay on Hands by 50%.


    dunno if its intended or not
    Nope, it won't be usable in arenas because the baseline CD is 10 minutes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    On loosing BoG topic: Remember we have a Snare on demand with SoJ, the DPS downside isn't that big and the ranged from BoG can come from other classes we play with. We already have a baseline snare, this is the big point.
    No way to close the gap and less damage. Sounds lovely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elovan View Post
    The Glyph is being redesigned, Turn Evil is not going to be instant, it'll be the same cast time as repentance on a 15 sec cd.
    The glyph doesn't increase the cooldown. Otherwise, unchanged.


    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I hope they address our movement talents as well. It would be nice if something other than Long Arm of the Law was viable.
    Yeah not gonna happen as long as Holy exists. GG.

  13. #93
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    It's a bad sign for me to be the only one that does not use BoG and never have a problem with gap closing. Means everyone or I must be really dumb and it's me probably =P

    Or not - I just switch seals when I know I gonna need it, I use use Sanctified Wrath on burst to avoid range/disarm/CC problems during burst and that's it. I'm never out without FoL to hold a healer while I land a kill.
    "I notice my rating actually boosts when I remember to have fun. Playing competitively while also enjoying yourself and focussing on having good games instead of getting rating is way more important.
    After 2.2k the fun devolves into a twisted realm suffering and despair and you will quit pvp from extreme traumatic stress and you will probably xfer to Moon Guard and join some Belf rp guild and become a prostitute in Silvermoon."by Clukclukbewm

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    Ret was already good in 5.2 and insanely good in 5.3
    I dont think they really plan for ret to become an unstoppable god, patch note is probably incomplete
    Lmao, while other classes were *MUCH* beterr..
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  15. #95
    I wouldn't worry about the apparent loss of the snare on BoG yet. It's entirely possible they'll be making another pass at Seal of Justice over the course of the PTR.

  16. #96
    Can't wait to see what the new glyph of Turn Evil will be, hopefully it will still make it instant-cast, since I'm assuming the new ability is meant to be viable for Ret. Giving us another CC option that is only good for Holy would be quite bizarre. The old glyph really sounds like it would have been fine, since it would make the cooldown 23 seconds. It might also be an option to make it so that you can move and auto-attack while casting Turn Evil, and Repent for that matter.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-06-12 at 10:59 PM.

  17. #97
    World of Retardins incomming with 5.4

    Infracted. Don't troll. ~Fhi
    Last edited by Fhi; 2013-06-13 at 01:15 AM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    At first glance they look like good PvP buffs. Very excited to see the final polish. And 3 min guardian!
    Shit. They look good for PVE too.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    Ret was already good in 5.2 and insanely good in 5.3
    I dont think they really plan for ret to become an unstoppable god, patch note is probably incomplete
    I mean, looking at the patch notes again nothing too insane is happening so far. It's just a surprise to see actual changes to Ret for once.

    •Inquisition having a 1min duration is pretty awesome for quality of life. (Probably the best change for PvP in my opinion)

    •Guardian of the Ancient Kings being a 3min cd but only stacking to 12 is pretty nice for more sustained burst.

    •Turn Evil being useable on players when taking the talent is interesting and can be awesome, but if it has a cast time I'm not sure how good it will be. (More of a buff to Holy in that case)

    The other talent changes so far aren't anything serious. Unbreakable Spirit is just another quality of life change but works pretty much the same way it does now. And Hand of Purity is a slight buff.

    But it is still extremely early so we might see at least a few more changes before the patch goes live.

    Like I said earlier, If they give us Cata Sacred Shield back for survivability I think Ret will finally be in a really good spot.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I mean, looking at the patch notes again nothing too insane is happening so far. It's just a surprise to see actual changes to Ret for once.

    •Inquisition having a 1min duration is pretty awesome for quality of life. (Probably the best change for PvP in my opinion)

    •Guardian of the Ancient Kings being a 3min cd but only stacking to 12 is pretty nice for more sustained burst.

    •Turn Evil being useable on players when taking the talent is interesting and can be awesome, but if it has a cast time I'm not sure how good it will be. (More of a buff to Holy in that case)

    The other talent changes so far aren't anything serious. Unbreakable Spirit is just another quality of life change but works pretty much the same way it does now. And Hand of Purity is a slight buff.

    But it is still extremely early so we might see at least a few more changes before the patch goes live.

    Like I said earlier, If they give us Cata Sacred Shield back for survivability I think Ret will finally be in a really good spot.
    If they don't make Turn Evil instant (for Ret at least) it will end up being way worse even than Repent, since it has a shorter range and because Turn Evil is already nice against dks, warlocks, all priest aberrations... then again if the new glyph doesn't make it instant it will even be a pretty nasty nerf to Ret since we won't be able to fear any pets at all without a huge dps loss.

    I'm really not sure what they are mulling over, the glyph absolutely still needs to make it instant, perhaps they are debating how much it should increase the CD... I really can't think of what other aspects the glyph could possibly have (maybe it will make it instant but break on any damage??!?)

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