Thread: 5.4 Changes

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  1. #421
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    they buffed ice lance lmfao!every patch they revert some if not all mage nerfs.
    Well the mastery was completely redesigned (less burst on frozen targets). Its impossible to say wether mages are buffed or nerfed at this point. But looking at mechanics it sounds like mages now have to harcast more to build up additional damage that is released with icelances...

  2. #422
    I just wanna see warriors hit the hardest in the game.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by burk23 View Post
    No the dmg actually didnt get increased, its just a tooltip fix. Before it said 375% additional dmg, now it just says 500% dmg.
    That makes a lot more sense, thanks for the clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by burk23 View Post
    Well the mastery was completely redesigned (less burst on frozen targets). Its impossible to say wether mages are buffed or nerfed at this point. But looking at mechanics it sounds like mages now have to harcast more to build up additional damage that is released with icelances...
    Currently it's ~42% more damage against frozen targets in full tyrannical, 52% if you happen to play with someone providing the 3k mastery groupbuff. If we can assume similar values and increases from mastery for the redesigned one we can expect a stored up 200% damage frostbolt-equivalent on top of an icelance every few casts.

    But mind you Frostbolt itself will deal noticeable less damage to begin with, honestly it's not that scary (and bursty!)... at all. Which isn't a bad thing to be honest, having most of your relevant burst potential a one short cooldown always allowed for a lot of pressure to begin with, now it's more like fire mages and their ignite, dealing some additional percent of the initial damage over a short amount of time afterwards.

  4. #424
    At least frostbolt won't hit so hard, the only ability we will be worrying about is ice lance, but again we will see what happens.

    On a bright note, i hear bladestorm for arms warriors is almost to being "wotlk" status.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2013-07-18 at 05:56 PM.

  5. #425
    Id like to see something where if a warrior anticipates a root then they can stop it from rooting them. Like a skill that buffs you for 1.5 seconds that will counter any root and say if you don't anticipate it correctly the skill goes on a 30 second cd and if you get it right it cancels the root effect and goes on a 5 second cd. Kind of reward you for knowing a thing or two, like when your chasing a mage and arena and he's jumping backwards holding down the S key to back pedal and you know in your head that this guys looking for the frost nova button on his bars.

  6. #426
    helic we have something similar with bladestorm and stuns. If you time it right you can force a mage to waste his deep freeze or annihilate a feral/rogue opener by bladestorming within an about .5 second window of the stun going off. I've learned how to do it pretty dang consistently; it's basically like what vanish used to be for rogues.

    For roots though we just need a flat out non-clunky ability aka root break on heroic leap. Why the hell they refuse to do this I can never fathom. Just remove it from safeguard entirely and make safeguard break slows/make you immune to them for a couple seconds instead. I love how stubborn they're being and giving us glyphs instead to compensate for the macros we were forced to make to even compete with other classes that ran around with half their keys on their bars outperforming us.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-07-18 at 08:50 PM.
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  7. #427
    That whirlwind glyph is a minor glyph too. I'm not understanding the point of it at all. Can someone explain to me if this glyph would actually be good in any situation.

    The only thing that comes to mind is that...you are rooted barely out of melee range and the only thing you can hit the guy with is whirlwind? So...a pvp buff? Lol.

  8. #428
    Things like our blade storm and almost all our stuns are pretty big cd's to blow, I don't think blade storm should be used for a simple root breaker it really makes the spell seem silly since you use it to deal 0 damage you just want to move again. I like how some class's have their counter spell so if it lands on school it locks out spells for long durations, not that it's hard to anticipate casting as you can see it, and I think they can do this with warriors giving them a root break ability that you cast on yourself before they hit you with it and some roots are cast times so that's a bonus to.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by helic View Post
    Things like our blade storm and almost all our stuns are pretty big cd's to blow, I don't think blade storm should be used for a simple root breaker it really makes the spell seem silly since you use it to deal 0 damage you just want to move again. I like how some class's have their counter spell so if it lands on school it locks out spells for long durations, not that it's hard to anticipate casting as you can see it, and I think they can do this with warriors giving them a root break ability that you cast on yourself before they hit you with it and some roots are cast times so that's a bonus to.
    you wouldn't use bladestorm purely for the root break if it was going to do zero damage. you would use it when you know someone is going to cc you, so they don't expect to have to avoid you/use defensives. this way you force them to either think quickly and use a defensive/get out and maybe make a mistake.


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  10. #430
    Any clue when the new glyphs will make it onto the PTR? They weren't available as of last night

  11. #431
    Storm bolt now a 4 second stun, I think blizz is trying to direct us into bladestorm and storm bolt for pvp (I dont mind, what I was planning on running anyway). However you could run a pretty damn stun heavy spec with shockwave / stormbolt and just annoy the fuck out of everyone. Probably will depend on your comp.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Miko View Post
    I just wanna see warriors hit the hardest in the game.
    We already do. No other class has an ability that crits for anywhere near what execute.does.

  13. #433
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Warriors should be the hardest hitting all the time, and by far in pvp. We have no utility anymore, our CC is a joke, our defenses are mediocre as melee. So we should hit the hardest, because its all we really do.

    Not just at 20%. Which isn't even a good thing as balancing execute around being large just means your 100-20% dps is lowered.
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  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by arden714 View Post
    We already do. No other class has an ability that crits for anywhere near what execute.does.
    Yea no. Rets templar's verdict (with mastery proc attached) hit for at least double of what execute does. I don't raid but whats the biggest execute you have done on a normal boss (no special shit)? I know rets can TV for well over a million with no special buffs. Execute might hit someone for 120k with everything in pvp, I have seen rets hit me for 150k+ with TV and thats not even an execute.

  15. #435
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Yea no. Rets templar's verdict (with mastery proc attached) hit for at least double of what execute does. I don't raid but whats the biggest execute you have done on a normal boss (no special shit)? I know rets can TV for well over a million with no special buffs. Execute might hit someone for 120k with everything in pvp, I have seen rets hit me for 150k+ with TV and thats not even an execute.
    Over a million.

  16. #436
    If they brought back WOTLK sudden death, i will LOVE warriors once again and we will be able to pull off CRAZY dmg.

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Warriors should be the hardest hitting all the time, and by far in pvp. We have no utility anymore, our CC is a joke, our defenses are mediocre as melee. So we should hit the hardest, because its all we really do.

    Not just at 20%. Which isn't even a good thing as balancing execute around being large just means your 100-20% dps is lowered.
    I'm curious what your definition of "utility" is, because as far as I can tell, we still bring a reasonable amount; Skull Banner, Demoralizing Banner and Rallying Cry are still unique to us, as is Shattering Throw (ignoring Symbiosis from a Feral). We also bring Attack Power or Stamina buffs to the table as well as Sunder Armor (yes, it's still annoying for us to apply) and the Physical Vulnerability debuff. I think that's a pretty decent toolkit for "utility" in my opinion. What else would you like?

    As far as our defenses; they're already changing Shield Wall and Spell Reflect to not require a shield. While Spell Reflect works on almost nothing relevant in a raid, the Shield Wall change is a *very* welcome one.

    So, on the PvE front, I think we're in a decent spot utility and defense-wise, especially in a raiding environment.

    I absolutely agree that we could use some number boosts though to bring us up some as well as some tweaking (why are they even bothering with a Heroic Throw glyph when it's a borderline useless skill??). Arms definitely needs a lot more attention and I think I'd be completely dumbfounded if anyone actually disagreed with that.

    If you were talking about PvP however, well...I'll just shut-up then since I don't bother with that aspect of this game anymore (when I want PvP action I look to games that were actually designed and balanced with that in mind [and with far, far, far, FAR better response times than the notoriously abysmal cycles Blizzard has])

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Over a million.
    Yea I suppose the 100% armpen CS would be a big jump that I forgot to think about. Still, I don't see why rets can get a straight 15% increase when their dps was already better than arms yet we get nothing.

    Edit: Damn this isn't the arms thread, oh well still relevant I guess.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    If they brought back WOTLK sudden death, i will LOVE warriors once again and we will be able to pull off CRAZY dmg.
    They would have to nerf execute or severely gimp overpower. I miss it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Yea no. Rets templar's verdict (with mastery proc attached) hit for at least double of what execute does. I don't raid but whats the biggest execute you have done on a normal boss (no special shit)? I know rets can TV for well over a million with no special buffs. Execute might hit someone for 120k with everything in pvp, I have seen rets hit me for 150k+ with TV and thats not even an execute.
    Durumuu 25 man: (source world of logs)

    Top Ret Pally TV- avg dmg 119k, avg crit 269k

    Top Fury Warrior Execute - avg dmg 367k , avg crit 781k

    Top Arms Warrior Execute - avg dmg 287k , avg crit 729k

    The numbers speak for themselves.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by arden714 View Post
    Durumuu 25 man: (source world of logs)

    Top Ret Pally TV- avg dmg 119k, avg crit 269k

    Top Fury Warrior Execute - avg dmg 367k , avg crit 781k

    Top Arms Warrior Execute - avg dmg 287k , avg crit 729k

    The numbers speak for themselves.
    What world are you living in? #1 25H Durumuu his average crit was 493k, #1 in a language I can undestand was 470k. That doesn't take into account their 4set which makes it all holy damage sometimes, nor the hand of light mastery damage on top of that. Top end that could easily be 800-900k with full cds and banner and 400k+ mastery proc.

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