5.4 Changes

[Darkfriend]

Yea I suppose the 100% armpen CS would be a big jump that I forgot to think about. Still, I don't see why rets can get a straight 15% increase when their dps was already better than arms yet we get nothing.

Edit: Damn this isn't the arms thread, oh well still relevant I guess.

I was getting some 800k crits with only feather and CS on heroic meg earlier today. Would be a lot more with CDS. Plus add effective 30% due to BB.

[Raseri]

So what's the consensus on where Prot Warrior stands for 5.4? From what I read it seems like a general buff. I raid as Fury right now in my 10 man group, but will likely be switching to Prot in 5.4 to replace one of our tanks and will be alongside a monk tank.

[Frayed]

What world are you living in? #1 25H Durumuu his average crit was 493k, #1 in a language I can undestand was 470k. That doesn't take into account their 4set which makes it all holy damage sometimes, nor the hand of light mastery damage on top of that. Top end that could easily be 800-900k with full cds and banner and 400k+ mastery proc.

Of course that takes into account their 4P...

[Sliske]

Nuclear bomb on a 30 second (21 second with trinket) CD. I can imagine stormbolt being our best talent out of that tier when we get the CD reduction trinket. Having a stormbolt for every col smash is very very good.



Stormbolt was used with:

Skull Banner
10 stacks of feather
x2 549 onehanders
enraged
potion
Attack power buff
synapse springs

And without:

Flask
Food buff
Stat buff

You can click my armory below to see my full gear list. Obviously i'm very far from being gear capped and am even missing a DPS profession. I'm looking forward to seeing 2.5m stormbolts as TG in heroic SoO gear.

[Hand Banana]

Of course that takes into account their 4P...

In terms of the biggest possible number one can get from a single attack (all parts combined). Therefore that average is lower than if your just thinking in terms of the maximum possible. Isn't that what we were originally talking about? Someone said execute hits harder than anything, I think TV does.

[Flaks]

We already do. No other class has an ability that crits for anywhere near what execute.does.

Sounds like someone's living in 5.0. Literally every single execute ability in the game deals more damage than execute itself right now in PvP. Hell, other classes' bread and butter abilities deal more damage than execute even.

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Of course that takes into account their 4P...

Procs such as those from item sets or masteries are listed under a completely different name usually. Not sure if that's the case here but just wanted to mention that.

[Hand Banana]

Sounds like someone's living in 5.0. Literally every single execute ability in the game deals more damage than execute itself right now in PvP. Hell, other classes' bread and butter abilities deal more damage than execute even.

Not to mention ours is the only melee range execute (I wouldn't count dispatch an execute) except for soul reaper which is unique in itself. It's also the only execute with any meaningful resource cost (as opposed to like Sw: d which actually generates resources) except soulburn but that hits for triple was execute does anyway. In pvp execute is like a marginally stronger slam.

[cFortyfive]

Isn't that what we were originally talking about? Someone said execute hits harder than anything, I think TV does.

I sort of doubt that. Not that it really matters though as you likely have just the single four gcd window to make that happen anyways and this is comparing an ability available at any time with an execute. For just single high crits I'd guess rising sun kick is up there as well - I see our monk produce 1,1 million+ kicks somewhat regularly.

[CollisionTD]

Nuclear bomb on a 30 second (21 second with trinket) CD. I can imagine stormbolt being our best talent out of that tier when we get the CD reduction trinket. Having a stormbolt for every col smash is very very good.



Stormbolt was used with:

Skull Banner
10 stacks of feather
x2 549 onehanders
enraged
potion
Attack power buff
synapse springs

And without:

Flask
Food buff
Stat buff

You can click my armory below to see my full gear list. Obviously i'm very far from being gear capped and am even missing a DPS profession. I'm looking forward to seeing 2.5m stormbolts as TG in heroic SoO gear.

Bloodbath is going to win out most likely, stormbolt will just be competitive. If storm bolt were off the GCD it would be a different story, but the cost of a GCD pushes it just under bloodbath for SMF. For TG, it might be slightly better, but with all the cleave encounters I've seen so far, bloodbath will still be king.

I mean, if I used all those CDs on Bloodbath with Execute, I'd probably get in 4 executes that deal 1-1.5~ million damage each, plus a few more 400-500k executes, adding up to 7 million damage, with bloodbath adding 2.1 million.

[Darkfriend]

Nuclear bomb on a 30 second (21 second with trinket) CD. I can imagine stormbolt being our best talent out of that tier when we get the CD reduction trinket. Having a stormbolt for every col smash is very very good.



Stormbolt was used with:

Skull Banner
10 stacks of feather
x2 549 onehanders
enraged
potion
Attack power buff
synapse springs

And without:

Flask
Food buff
Stat buff

You can click my armory below to see my full gear list. Obviously i'm very far from being gear capped and am even missing a DPS profession. I'm looking forward to seeing 2.5m stormbolts as TG in heroic SoO gear.

Few things to consider, and why it probably won't be as good as BB except maybe for TG on single target fights.

1.) Opportunity cost. You lose something else inside a CS if using CDR trinket.

2.) You have to use CDR trinket.

[Deleted]

CDR trinket also works for BB and avatar, so we probably can just ignore it, can't we?

[CollisionTD]

CDR trinket also works for BB and avatar, so we probably can just ignore it, can't we?

CDR trinket is a fairly meh trinket, it's not awful, but there are better choices. The only possible use for the CDR trinket will be on fights that have adds that come out every 45-50 seconds rather than 60+ seconds, so bladestorm lines up better. Even then, if the cruelty trinket still has 90% uptime, then it'll still lose out to that and the amplify trinket.

[Sliske]

Bloodbath is going to win out most likely, stormbolt will just be competitive. If storm bolt were off the GCD it would be a different story, but the cost of a GCD pushes it just under bloodbath for SMF. For TG, it might be slightly better, but with all the cleave encounters I've seen so far, bloodbath will still be king.

I mean, if I used all those CDs on Bloodbath with Execute, I'd probably get in 4 executes that deal 1-1.5~ million damage each, plus a few more 400-500k executes, adding up to 7 million damage, with bloodbath adding 2.1 million.

I think you're forgetting you can fit two SB's inside the time of 1 BB

And by that i mean, lets say an non cd usage regular stormbolt inside colossus hits for average 600k (probably higher.) x2 thats 1.2mil. To do 1.2 mil dmg with 1 bloodbath would require you to do 4 mil dmg in 12 seconds which is 330k-ish dps inside that bloodbath not counting the bloodbath damage. (My math is probably wrong, its 4 am. Bad neighbours ftw)

I was watching landsoul talk about it very briefly and he said something like i said. Would be nice to get a post from him on it

I think it will be better for single target and of course worse for AoE.

[Darkfriend]

Things to consider in the SB v BB 5.4 discussion.

1.) Opportunity cost. Since SB is on the GCD, you are losing 2 GCDs a minute. Now, if they could be used anytime (like if SB were on a charge system) that wouldn't be a big deal. The problem is the times you need to use SB are the times you lose the MOST from using it, not the least. You end up replacing 1 RB/minute inside a CS with a SB, and are forced to use one SB/minute outside of a CS. (This is assuming you are not using the CDR trinket). Your options in that CS phase are either save b.rage to get 3 RB and 1 SB inside it, which potentially costs enrage uptime, or else forgo that 3rd RB all together in favor of another ability (WS/BT, the former meaning 1 less HS). The 2nd SB is either used on CD, or delayed ~15 seconds to line up with the 3rd CS (remember CS is never used exactly every 20 seconds.) Both have some slight cost.

2.) Weaker execute. Same problem as before, using SB instead of EX means you'll be going something like BT-CS-SB-EX-EX-EX, so the only gain is the difference between one execute and SB, and how much damage the BB would have been. On shorter execute fights like Megara, SB would have an advantage though.

3.) TG, that which benefits the most from the OH buff to SB, is going to tend to be the least likely to take SB. TG favors AoE fights, in which case BB is a clear winner. That being said, since TG has weaker execute, there is less lost from using SB during execute phase for TG.

I'm whacking away at a dummy now to just test the two. BB did ~1.1M damage in an opener, only self buffed (no food/flask/potion.)

Oh another thing to consider is how SB lines up with procs. Currently, the feather opener greatly favors BB, due to the synergy it has with feather. Depending on how soon people are replacing their feather, that may change things too.

[Deleted]

edit:

Please delete that post. Everything was already said by darkfiend, didnt read the whole thread apparently...

[meathead]

They would have to nerf execute or severely gimp overpower. I miss it too.



Durumuu 25 man: (source world of logs)

Top Ret Pally TV- avg dmg 119k, avg crit 269k

Top Fury Warrior Execute - avg dmg 367k , avg crit 781k

Top Arms Warrior Execute - avg dmg 287k , avg crit 729k

The numbers speak for themselves.

"They would have to nerf execute or severely gimp overpower. I miss it too."

they already have nerfed execute a few time.but yes if sudden death made a come back blizz would nerf execute,again.

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Warriors should be the hardest hitting all the time, and by far in pvp. We have no utility anymore, our CC is a joke, our defenses are mediocre as melee. So we should hit the hardest, because its all we really do.

Not just at 20%. Which isn't even a good thing as balancing execute around being large just means your 100-20% dps is lowered.

"Warriors should be the hardest hitting all the time, and by far in pvp"

agree 100%-i been saying this for years.without top end damage/burst,warriors are a dead class.we were designed to be the heavy hitters in plate,blizz should at least let us do that,they use to "classic/BC".

[Sliske]

Things to consider in the SB v BB 5.4 discussion.

1.) Opportunity cost. Since SB is on the GCD, you are losing 2 GCDs a minute. Now, if they could be used anytime (like if SB were on a charge system) that wouldn't be a big deal. The problem is the times you need to use SB are the times you lose the MOST from using it, not the least. You end up replacing 1 RB/minute inside a CS with a SB, and are forced to use one SB/minute outside of a CS. (This is assuming you are not using the CDR trinket). Your options in that CS phase are either save b.rage to get 3 RB and 1 SB inside it, which potentially costs enrage uptime, or else forgo that 3rd RB all together in favor of another ability (WS/BT, the former meaning 1 less HS). The 2nd SB is either used on CD, or delayed ~15 seconds to line up with the 3rd CS (remember CS is never used exactly every 20 seconds.) Both have some slight cost.

2.) Weaker execute. Same problem as before, using SB instead of EX means you'll be going something like BT-CS-SB-EX-EX-EX, so the only gain is the difference between one execute and SB, and how much damage the BB would have been. On shorter execute fights like Megara, SB would have an advantage though.

3.) TG, that which benefits the most from the OH buff to SB, is going to tend to be the least likely to take SB. TG favors AoE fights, in which case BB is a clear winner. That being said, since TG has weaker execute, there is less lost from using SB during execute phase for TG.

I'm whacking away at a dummy now to just test the two. BB did ~1.1M damage in an opener, only self buffed (no food/flask/potion.)

Oh another thing to consider is how SB lines up with procs. Currently, the feather opener greatly favors BB, due to the synergy it has with feather. Depending on how soon people are replacing their feather, that may change things too.

I reckon it will basically be if SB crits its worth it, if it doesn't, its not.

[helic]

"Any buffs for Arms? Lowest dps spec in the game by a very large marging and under performs in pvp"
"You are comparing 22k Fury parses with 800 Arms parses. Fury might beat Arms, but you can't compare those means."

More sad questions and answers for Arms PvP on the front page, pretty much not a mention about any fixes or how it's performing badly in PvP. Granted the kids question was stupid but there are better questions for blue's to be answering than this like dealing with warrior mobility in arenas.

[Warriorsarri]

They've already said that they are looking into warriors, and we aren't at the stage where they will tweak the numbers as of yet. Give it a few more weeks, and you'll see changes rolling in, for not just us, but other classes and specs as well.

At this point in time, the best thing we can do is try to have a discussion and bring up ideas that could elevate our current grim status.

[Korgoth]

You are comparing 22k Fury parses with 800 Arms parses. Fury might beat Arms, but you can't compare those means.

FURY is sooo much better that 22,000 out of 23,000 warriors on parses play it, and that fact is lost on this guy. Blizz ftl.