1. #1

    Warrior WOD talents: A veteran's suggestion.

    Greetings fellow advocates of the best class ever! I'm a warrior addict. Ever since I tasted the "nectar of the gods" the first time I went full burst in end game gear, I've been suckling on that sweet, sweet nectar for many a long year. I main a warrior and have 3 more 90 warriors, I have a 90 of ever other class and I play them all to an end game standard and have 9/9 gold on most of them...but they aren't a warrior. All this to say that I'm nervous, excited maybe but mostly nervous. I don't envy the developers one bit, most of us have grown to love the extensive arsenal of abilities at our disposal; it feels so compelling to have a button for every situation. This makes the challenge in PvP and in PvE, knowing your opposition and clinically reacting to each situation with the right button. The perfect spell reflect in an Arena game, or the perfect tank saving disarm: these are what define us, and make warriors so special. So can we as the community come along side the developers, not with pejorative complaints, but well-thought out suggestions. I've been talking to many of my fellow end game players, people who elevate the game to an artisan level, I've bounced my ideas off them and they in turn bolstered me to put those thoughts out to the community, hopefully to strike a similar chord with you readers, and in turn gain the attention of those who are looking for this kind of positive constructive feedback.

    My major concern with warriors at the moment is 3 talent tiers in specific: Level 60, Level 90, and Level 100. Since I'm a X11 multiclasser I'm very familiar with each class and their respective talent trees. I've been keeping up with their respective 100 talent proposals. I've been impressed with the 'synergy' and unity of design so far with most classes....and then I look at Warrior. It's quite confusing and shows very little evidence of unity of design or concept.
    Right now its 'too' good. I'm ashamed to say it. We have to be real here. We have a treasure trove of insane options. Those of us that have been around this long know however that "With great talents, come great nerfs". We may be able to have Dragon Roar, and Bladestorm, AND Ravager, but in the end they'll have to nerf each to quell the mage tears...I'll add warlock tears too. It's too good. They can do better and this is what I suggest and why:

    60 Talents: Stun / utility row: Storm Bolt, Shockwave...makes sense! lets add another utility talent to this row and take Dragon Roar out. Something unique like a Electrified Shield spell reflect where enemy spell casts inflicted during a 4 second duration would be reflected and stun the caster (2 second PvP). Essentially a Brisled Fur for PvE tanks, and a Anti-wizard cleave talent for PvP warriors.

    90 Talents: AoE row: Here is where we put Dragon Roar, Bladestorm, and Ravager. All of these are such amazing AoE abilities that each deserve to be truely epic in nature. if we get all 3 they'll be lack-luster. Also this keeps the Synergy between these abilities and other talents such as bloodbath.

    100 Talents: Damage Boost tier: Here you have Anger Management, Ignite Weapon, and Bloodbath. This creates really strong synergy with other talent rows and establishes a very important unity of concept and design.

    You might have thought: Uh...what about Avatar? Well sorry. Avatar needs to go. Its really too good of an idea for a game that has to be balanced to some degree. Its either too good, or not good enough to be worth taking. The is CD too long for what it does, t'was OK when it generated rage but now there is no incentive to use it over the quick 1 min CDs that synergize well with the other abilities. Plus after playing D3 barbarian that visual effect was so underwhelming I wanted to cry.

    I want to hear what you think of this and of course you are all going to have your own ideas, lets hear them, but put careful consideration into what you say. The Devs are 10 years jaded on hearing hyperbolic pleading on why your class deserves the next super-awesome-kill-everything-with-one-keystroke ability.

    Most importantly: Keep Calm and Warrior On.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord
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    So, asides the re-organisation you just replaced avatar with an improved spellreflect?
    Regarding the restructuring I am not really sure. Dragon´s Roar cannot really be considered a good AoE Spell. The damage is split and capped and is, as it currently is, inferior to Bladestorm in AoE situations. If you manage to handle Bladestorm right, it outpaced Dragon´s Roar even in single target situations. Then, aside the minimal knockback of DR, which doesnt work on bosses, Ravager provides a clear boost so survivability. So the choice for tanks would be not optional anymore, since neither DR or BS have an defensive aspect.
    Regarding the new talent, I hope the electrified Shield was just a random example, not an actually well through-thought ability. In Pve it is virtually useless, since there is only one boss currently you could use Spellreflect actively against (Shamans) and only two bosses where it provides a minimal advantage (Galakras and Norushen). In both cases, the stun would probably not work. So it is a talent without use in PvE. I could probably count all the Bosses of MoP, which have abilities worth reflecting on my two hands. In PvP nobody would pick it because it would stack with the Dimishing returns of our other stuns, doesn´t affect melees at all and instead of giving us another tool it would replace an existing one.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  3. #3
    The very slight changes made to how the talent tiers are set up are fine, little else is needed.

    What IS needed is more inspired level 100 talents. The ones we have now are seriously things people get as baseline abilities around level 30.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  4. #4
    yeah in regards to the Electrified spell reflect I was thinking something along the lines of the Bristling Fur talent for guardian Druids. Spell damage reduction for x seconds and in addition a stun off the reflect, I failed to properly state that though. I was thinking something more like this:

    "Your Shield gains a reflective charge causing all spell damage you take in the next 4 seconds to be reduced by 50%, in addition all spell casts inflicted upon you within the first 2 seconds will stun the enemy caster for 4 seconds. (2 seconds PvP)

    I do like the idea I've been seeing about not axing Avatar but making it the Arms equivalent of Bloodbath, spice up the animation and make it actually look cool, not just titan poop skin mode.

  5. #5
    Dragon Roars damage is no longer split in Warlords.

    Only took 2 years.

  6. #6
    I've also been hearing interesting suggestions about a Throwdown type ability instead of my proposed idea about an Anti-spell talent. Interesting idea, anyone else want to see a throwdown re-introduced into the game?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic View Post
    I've also been hearing interesting suggestions about a Throwdown type ability instead of my proposed idea about an Anti-spell talent. Interesting idea, anyone else want to see a throwdown re-introduced into the game?
    Melee Stormbolt?

  8. #8
    High Overlord
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    Stunning Spell Reflect, I like that.

    Losing Avatar not so much.

    And you forgot Gladiator's Resolve. I'd be interested in where that would fit in.
    Last edited by Cyclonus-WOW; 2014-07-21 at 09:29 PM.
    Cyclonüs
    Gladiator's Resolve Blog
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    cyclonus has ruined everything

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brigadier View Post
    Melee Stormbolt?
    I was the one who made the suggestion over on the official forum. The idea was to have Throwdown brought back as a higher uptime stun (either shorter cooldown or longer duration than stormbolt), that works as an actual CC in PVE.

    So you get the solution of AoE stun, ranged stun, or melee Stun+CC as the three options for that talent tier.

    Losing Avatar not so much.
    Avatar's been pretty much useless the majority of the expansion. If it's going to stay, it fits much better going baseline as a replacement for Recklessness for Arms than staying as a talent nobody takes.

    And you forgot Gladiator's Resolve. I'd be interested in where that would fit in.
    This should just be a baseline stance available to prot, much like Crane stance for Mistweaver monks who want to fistweave is something they get automatically, not something they have to waste a talent to access.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonus-WOW View Post

    And you forgot Gladiator's Resolve. I'd be interested in where that would fit in.
    Remember Gladiator Stance is the Protection only talent which takes the same place as Ignite Weapon (arms & fury), so it would still be in the mix with the proposed setup. It would still be in the Level 100 row.

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