5.4 Changes

[Darkfriend]

Considering how many different abilities we have to use in quick succession to get the same amount of damage every single other class does with the press of a single ability, I think it's about damn time we got a 1 second gcd.

We'd have a shit ton of free GCDs, and it would totally change fury playstyle. NTY. Not needed.

[Stormcall]

lawlwut. Obliterate hits for like 376% Wep damage, increased by 25% with diseases. No way MS should hit that hard.

The thing is...MS is the "signature" attack of an arms warrior, and has a CD. A frost DK can smash something with 3 obliterates right out of the gate if he wants, with CD based on his rune recharge speed, AND, with KM, there's a fairly reasonable chance that at least one of those will be a crit. So, why shouldn't MS hit harder than it does now? I can understand making it hit not quite a hard as Obliterate(to keep from doing absurd damage in a CS window), but it shouldn't be this much softer, either.

And LOL at that dude who just randomly said Frost DKs are supposed to do more damage so arms shouldn't get buffed? What kinda logic is that, why is frost "supposed" to do more damage, why exactly is our damage not "supposed" to be comparable? Don't get me wrong, I main a DK, but I don't think I'm just entitled to do more damage because I'm a DK...

[Darkfriend]

The thing is...MS is the "signature" attack of an arms warrior, and has a CD. A frost DK can smash something with 3 obliterates right out of the gate if he wants, with CD based on his rune recharge speed, AND, with KM, there's a fairly reasonable chance that at least one of those will be a crit. So, why shouldn't MS hit harder than it does now? I can understand making it hit not quite a hard as Obliterate(to keep from doing absurd damage in a CS window), but it shouldn't be this much softer, either.

And LOL at that dude who just randomly said Frost DKs are supposed to do more damage so arms shouldn't get buffed? What kinda logic is that, why is frost "supposed" to do more damage, why exactly is our damage not "supposed" to be comparable? Don't get me wrong, I main a DK, but I don't think I'm just entitled to do more damage because I'm a DK...

Arms and frost are completely different playstyles. I just find the comparison a little absurd.

[Stormcall]

Arms and frost are completely different playstyles. I just find the comparison a little absurd.

Completely different? Arms and 2h frost are both about smashing things with a big 2h weapon, not sure that's "completely" different. And, uhh, adding more damage to MS wouldn't change arm's playstyle anyway, it would just make them suck less. MS would still have a CD, so you couldn't spam it, you already wanna use it on CD anyways so that wouldn't change it's priority...is there some reason other than "because it's arms" that MS should suck so hard? I mean, I'm not even saying make MS do damage equal to Obliterate does, but I am saying a regular Obliterate Crit shouldn't STILL surpass a MS crit during a CS window, with banner up.

[Darkfriend]

Completely different? Arms and 2h frost are both about smashing things with a big 2h weapon, not sure that's "completely" different. And, uhh, adding more damage to MS wouldn't change arm's playstyle anyway, it would just make them suck less. MS would still have a CD, so you couldn't spam it, you already wanna use it on CD anyways so that wouldn't change it's priority...is there some reason other than "because it's arms" that MS should suck so hard? I mean, I'm not even saying make MS do damage equal to Obliterate does, but I am saying a regular Obliterate Crit shouldn't STILL surpass a MS crit during a CS window, with banner up.

Your error comes from conflating "using a 2h weapon and hitting things with it" and "similar playstyles"

[Stormcall]

Your error comes from conflating "using a 2h weapon and hitting things with it" and "similar playstyles"

Melee is the broadest form of play style. So mage and warrior, "completely" different, arms and frost, not "completely" different, as they do both have the same issue of requiring uptime on a target to be effective. They're different from each other, but not completely, as you stated.

Also cute to ignore the point about how playstyle is irrelevant to begin with, since buffing the damage of MS wouldn't even CHANGE the arms playstyle, it would just let their iconic move hit harder than a wet noodle in the process. It wouldn't suddenly let you play "completely" like a frost DK.

[Buniboo]

Arms needs a hard hitting move like RB is to fury. 4pc t16 execute procs will help.

[Senen]

There are a number of considerations you didn't consider, which explain why you are wrong. First, as enrage time goes up it becomes a none issue. You will effectively never be unenraged during any time in a CS where it matters. If your BT before CS doesn't crit, and you still CS, you are bad. If the CS doesn't crit, the next BT doesn't crit, and you don't have b.rage, you're probably misusing b.rage. The chance of it happening during two CS phases in a row are rather slim. Not to mention that if it DOES happen you're spending rage on unbuffed WS anyways, which means you won't have enough rage for HS anyways. Oh AND it assumes that you will actually be able to spend the rage you save on a WS anyway.

Thus, it doesn't matter if you are playing correctly. You will not get into a situation where you don't HS during a CS because you are not enraged this tier (maybe next one with the tier 2p)

Btw, I didn't mention it because I find it very obvious but: everybode is not a really well geared warrior playing in raid situation all the time.
I don't have as much Crit as you, I often attempt solo (meaning I don't have crit buff), sometimes I run Challenge Modes as a dps (meaning I have far less crit), etc.
I grant you that with a good gear, it happens less and less until it doesn't happen anymore. With ~50% crit the prolem won't exist at all. But is better geared a reason to stop tracking buff and thinking less about its class?

[senturion]

Had a friendly debate with a guildie over which class was more forgiving for the average player: DK, Fury or Windwalker. Could anyone who play these at a decent level share an opinion?

[Senen]

As the discussion above show, Fury gets more forgiving as you upgrade your gear.
I think that 463ilvl Fury was very unforgiving, though.

[Damosapien]

Had a friendly debate with a guildie over which class was more forgiving for the average player: DK, Fury or Windwalker. Could anyone who play these at a decent level share an opinion?

1h frost is the easiest dps spec in the game right now, 2h i'd say is a bit less forgiving but still easier than fury, ww is alongside feral/enh as the hardest specs to play to its potential, but the buff they got meant that if you play bad you look like you did well and if you play well your miles ahead, they didnt need a buff, they just needed simplifying slightly.

[Flaks]

The two things that supposedly defined Arms according to the specialization pane are utterly false and mis leading. We neither have over powering attacks nor amazing mobility to help us against our opponents.

We need MS and OP to both hit A LOT harder. MS hitting for 200+% and OP hitting for 160+% would NOT put us over the top in PvE and would still not be enough for PvP where our weakness is how easily we're peeled.

[Rorke]

The two things that supposedly defined Arms according to the specialization pane are utterly false and mis leading. We neither have over powering attacks nor amazing mobility to help us against our opponents.

We need MS and OP to both hit A LOT harder. MS hitting for 200+% and OP hitting for 160+% would NOT put us over the top in PvE and would still not be enough for PvP where our weakness is how easily we're peeled.

Woah really... I didn't know a 12 second gap closer, 30 second banner/friendly target breaker, 30 second Heroic Leap and a 4 second frontal cone stun on a 40 second cool down was bad mobility/uptime.

Mortal Strike already hits for a decent amount against pvp targets. It hits for around 20K non crit on Colossus Smash debuffed targets. Overpower hits for around 18k and its off the regular warrior gcd by .5. If you really think about it, Warrior sustained damage is average, not terrible and not retarded like Unholy DK is. What is the problem with that?

Not to mention if those damage buffs went through I can't imagine how stupid Warrior Avatar would be in pvp.

[meathead]

Woah really... I didn't know a 12 second gap closer, 30 second banner/friendly target breaker, 30 second Heroic Leap and a 4 second frontal cone stun on a 40 second cool down was bad mobility/uptime.

Mortal Strike already hits for a decent amount against pvp targets. It hits for around 20K non crit on Colossus Smash debuffed targets. Overpower hits for around 18k and its off the regular warrior gcd by .5. If you really think about it, Warrior sustained damage is average, not terrible and not retarded like Unholy DK is. What is the problem with that?

Not to mention if those damage buffs went through I can't imagine how stupid Warrior Avatar would be in pvp.

cut the shit already-arms is the weakest dps spec in game.why do you think arms is dead last in pve?do you see how piss poor rep warriors have in pvp atm?why do you think that is?why is arms dead last in pve and 2nd to last in arena rep?that doe snot tell you something is broken/wrong with warriors?if not you blind and just being one sided.

you do know that MS is a nerf version of its former self right?as goes for op-hell the same can be said for ever single warrior ability we have or have had.maybe thats why warriors are in the spot we are now in again and only being 1 season removed from being the worst pvp CLASS in cata.this season warriors suck,last season they were light outs,the season before that "for over a year+" warriors were dead last in arena rep.but everything is fine with the class atm right?

yes MS without question needs to hit harder and so does OP for that matter.

"Warrior sustained damage is average, not terrible and not retarded like Unholy DK is. What is the problem with that?"

the problem is dks hit much harder like you just said.just because you think thats "right" does not make it so.you can sit there and talk about charge or Hl all you want,but they are easy to counter buy a simple root which ever class /spec has now.not only that but most have ranged slows,why do you think mages counter warrior so well.becasue warriors cant do jack shit stuck in roots,warrior do not have the tools to stay on a target or get out self out of roots.but im sure you think cc in wow is in a good spot right?

[Kankipappa]

We'd have a shit ton of free GCDs, and it would totally change fury playstyle. NTY. Not needed.

Just an idea; how would it work, if only during Colossus smash your base GCD would be lowered to 1s? Or even if it would be baked into some mini cooldown like hitting that Berserker Rage. At least for Arms it's kinda irritating that "you're supposed to hit slams" during CS but never have enough globals to do so unless you want the OP stacks to go up to 5.

Maybe that would complicate things too much, but on some situations I would be so much in for smaller global cooldowns even if it would be temporal, since it makes warrior just more clumsy than the others in some situations.

[cFortyfive]

Well not that it was unexpected but the 2pc got hit hard with the nerfbat. It's now like what an additional heroic strike ? Fuck yeah.

[Deleted]

OFC it got nerfed...it was way too OP. It still serves its purpose tho of boosting arms much more than Fury. Combined with the new cleaving changes to arms, it might actually have a purpose in pve now.

[cFortyfive]

A heroic strike every 20 seconds is excitement wise about as huge as having that shitty current 2pc bonus.

[Deleted]

Equip: Increases the cooldown recovery rate of six of your major abilities by 39%. Effective for Strength-based damage roles only.
Equip: Your attacks have a chance to grant you 11,761 Strength for 10 sec.


CS down to 12 sek crazy shit ....

[Eranthe]

A heroic strike every 20 seconds is excitement wise about as huge as having that shitty current 2pc bonus.

WEEOOWEEOOWEEOOWEEOO

the fun police have arrived. no fun allowed in wow.

why didn't they make this the bonus to begin with? anyone in their right mind, let alone blizzard devs knew the old 2 piece would be data mined and would get our hopes up for an amazing fun tier bonus, and yet they still tested it, knowing we'd be disappointed.

i am disappointed.