5.4 Changes

[Darkfriend]

They lost their passive damage reduction only against casters. They gained 60% more armor in return which equates to the very similar damage reduction against physical damage; and that just so happens to keep warriors and rogues down while boosting all of the other classes that were already doing fine.

I forgot about that, my B.

[meathead]

Arms was most certainly not in the same position during the last tier of Cata as it is or is likely to be in for the final tier in MoP.

arms is dead last in dps and not to far from that in pvp as well.buffing slam will fix it this time for sure .

[Frayed]

arms is dead last in dps and not to far from that in pvp as well.buffing slam will fix it this time for sure .

What are you even talking about?

I don't think anyone would disagree that Arms is in a pretty poor position right now. I was responding to your (wholly) incorrect statement that Arms was "shit" at roughly this same time last expansion.

[Deleted]

Trinkets have been updated:

dps - http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145991
dbts, RC, shatter, shield wall, reck + skull banner

tank - http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145992
last stand, RC, shield wall, reck + skull banner, mocking banner

Currently the listed modifier is -11%, but that's still not set in stone.

---

Arms has some super bad scaling problems in pve, everything about that specc stays and falls with the weapon and nothing else really matters with no real cooldown phase outside of reck'd executes.

[Deleted]

WTB for smash definitley^^

[cFortyfive]

Trinkets have been updated:

dps - http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=145991
dbts, RC, shatter, shield wall, reck + skull banner

Still think it really should include our dps cooldown tier.

[meathead]

What are you even talking about?

I don't think anyone would disagree that Arms is in a pretty poor position right now. I was responding to your (wholly) incorrect statement that Arms was "shit" at roughly this same time last expansion.

wtf are you talking about?you just said i was right that arms is shit atm,correct?go back read what i said,i said warriors were the worst pvp class and arms sucked the last year or so in cata.now tell me im wrong about that as well?

at what point during cata was arms the #1 pve dps spec in game?your saying arms was good in pve in cata right?tell me when that was?

raiding ORG is the last raid in mop right?im not sure because i never pve all that much,but i do know when you kill the end game boss that means end of x-pac.

[Deleted]

Hmm its really bad if they add skull banner to it. Well they kinda have to, because its somewhat tied to recklessness, but that pushes us even more towards being a buff bitch class...On the other hand its a good reason to get that trinket first...

[Deleted]

Yes supposedly, this is the last tier of the expansion

Although with the current design model I would expect to see a 5.5 patch before 6.0 with a fair bit of content in

[Velnora]

wtf are you talking about?you just said i was right that arms is shit atm,correct?go back read what i said,i said warriors were the worst pvp class and arms sucked the last year or so in cata.now tell me im wrong about that as well?

at what point during cata was arms the #1 pve dps spec in game?your saying arms was good in pve in cata right?tell me when that was?

raiding ORG is the last raid in mop right?im not sure because i never pve all that much,but i do know when you kill the end game boss that means end of x-pac.

Arms was the best spec melee wise during DS. With the exception of rogues with legendaries.

[Deleted]

Currently (push 5.4.0 - 17161) the tanking trinket nets "20% increased cooldown recovery rate" resulting in 2.5 minutes last stand, RC, reck, mocking and skull banner and 1.67 minutes on shield wall.

The dps trinket is still labeled "39% increased cooldown recovery rate" resulting in 2.16 minutes on reck, RC, shield wall and skull banner. DBTS is down to 1.44 minutes and shatter has a 3.6 minutes cooldown.

If you have both equipped and change between roles it can happen that it shows an even lower number on the tooltip. That's only because it hasn't been updated, unequip the trinkets will solve it (and the reduction doesn't take place in the first place, sadly ).

[sjsctt]

Currently (push 5.4.0 - 17161) the tanking trinket nets "20% increased cooldown recovery rate" resulting in 2.5 minutes last stand, RC, reck, mocking and skull banner and 1.67 minutes on shield wall.

The dps trinket is still labeled "39% increased cooldown recovery rate" resulting in 2.16 minutes on reck, RC, shield wall and skull banner. DBTS is down to 1.44 minutes and shatter has a 3.6 minutes cooldown.

If you have both equipped and change between roles it can happen that it shows an even lower number on the tooltip. That's only because it hasn't been updated, unequip the trinkets will solve it (and the reduction doesn't take place in the first place, sadly ).

With the crit trinket and new gear levels, what is even going to be the value on recklessness? We are going to have so much crit it will be redic.

[Deleted]

Currently you're only sitting at close to 50% crit raidbuffed with a single Gaze procc and BiS TG gear, so you probably want to close that gap w/o proccs (that's still almost 4k crit rating to go) and start to work on mastery afterwards. Which should be even more interesting with http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=102305 - and reck is still useful for everything else, so having it avaible more often shouldn't hurt that much, should it?

[meathead]

Arms was the best spec melee wise during DS. With the exception of rogues with legendaries.

define best melee?arms was not the #1 pve dps spec in cata nor was it the best pvp spec.the last year+ of cata arms was dead.

[Choptimus]

define best melee?arms was not the #1 pve dps spec in cata nor was it the best pvp spec.the last year+ of cata arms was dead.

Arms was 2nd best melee dps in DS. Utterly useles in PvP though.

[Beefkow]

I think we should discuss the present and the future and just forget about the past.

Anyhow, they need to buff arms warrior single target damage, from both PVE and PVP perspectives, i would thumbs up this idea.

[Frayed]

wtf are you talking about?you just said i was right that arms is shit atm,correct?go back read what i said,i said warriors were the worst pvp class and arms sucked the last year or so in cata.now tell me im wrong about that as well?

at what point during cata was arms the #1 pve dps spec in game?your saying arms was good in pve in cata right?tell me when that was?

raiding ORG is the last raid in mop right?im not sure because i never pve all that much,but i do know when you kill the end game boss that means end of x-pac.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or if your forum name is just incredibly apt but I'll bite (one last time):

Yes, Arms is in a bad spot right now in PvE.
No, Arms was not bad in Dragon Soul. So yes, you're wrong. The only melee that was consistently better were Rogues with legendaries. No one claimed Arms was the #1 best PvE dps period in DS, stop fixating on something absurd (in fact, you're the only one who has said anything about "#1 pve dps spec in game")
PvP - I don't care / know. I haven't found PvP enjoyable for a loooong time so I don't participate in it and I leave PvP-related discussions to those who are more experienced in that department. So, I haven't said boo-diddly about Arms in PvP, nor am I likely to.

With the crit trinket and new gear levels, what is even going to be the value on recklessness? We are going to have so much crit it will be redic.

While it's still rather early to have discussions regarding gear, Recklessness will still be a good cooldown, even if someone's using the crit trinket. I suspect the preferred choices will be the CD reduction trinket + the crit/mast/haste improving one. Keep in mind as well that Mastery is already approaching, or in some cases, exceeding the value of crit so we'll likely be reforging into it instead as we approach BiS in the next tier. It really is too early to say though as we haven't seen any gear other than the 2 / 4-piece set bonuses and the legendary cloaks and there's still lots of time for Blizz to do number passes.

[Beefkow]

Again... why are we discussing about the past? why is there a need to reference something from the past? whats going on in the future needs to be our concern.

And FYI: its like saying you got gladiator at S10 or w/e season (although this as nothing to do what is being discussed, but needs to be mentioned) but who cares? it was ALOT different back then, and trying to reference something from the past to support your argument makes it invalid.

- - - Updated - - -

With the crit trinket and new gear levels, what is even going to be the value on recklessness? We are going to have so much crit it will be redic.

The values won't be ridiculous, i went on the ptr and we have 22.53% crit with 320 crit gems socketed in yellow sockets and no medallion, so recklessness will still be mandatory.

Our damage is so bad we need our critical strikes to make up for this dmg and the enrage procs but unfortunately the enrage effect lasts for 6 seconds.

[Swaggah]

wtf are you talking about?you just said i was right that arms is shit atm,correct?go back read what i said,i said warriors were the worst pvp class and arms sucked the last year or so in cata.now tell me im wrong about that as well?

at what point during cata was arms the #1 pve dps spec in game?your saying arms was good in pve in cata right?tell me when that was?

raiding ORG is the last raid in mop right?im not sure because i never pve all that much,but i do know when you kill the end game boss that means end of x-pac.

T11 arms was great when you could exploit charge
T12 arms was fine
T13 arms was beast, especially on high damage income bosses

[Deleted]

And FYI: its like saying you got gladiator at S10 or w/e season (although this as nothing to do what is being discussed, but needs to be mentioned) but who cares? it was ALOT different back then, and trying to reference something from the past to support your argument makes it invalid.

While i can generally agree with that argumentation it's something totally different if you played arena for caps and lolz with some friends, got your 50k honorable kills over 8 years or played several thousand matches in any season & on a high level. Awareness and indepth understanding of the game was always needed (and still is). Yes, several things have changed and with FOTM comps it was without a doubt 10,4 times easier to reach gladitor/duelist/rival/whatever but there's still the a noticeable gap to Joe Average

But anyway, back to topic: next tier leaves arms warrior with some options, we're crit capped on overpower and depending on the strength of the new trinkets (and if they'll really have an ICD instead of RPPM) we could go full haste (beyond 35% crit). Recent Simcraft already put haste second only behind crit mostly thanks to feather. And if we look at all the changes to slam Blizzard also sees that something is not right with that ability in particular, maybe they can make it work in some future pushes. Currently it's DPE is okay, but DPR and DPET are still horrible. Add overpowers cooldown reduction on mortal strike ... But i still don't like the idea of capping TfB stacks during a period of cooldowns/lots of incoming rage/several cs proccs, maybe it could also reduce slams rage cost or something like that in exchange for a charge.