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  1. #21
    Ugh, stupid phone!

    Slow edit on last post, my bad.

    And the current DI buff is for Disc version only.
    Last edited by Spazzeh; 2013-06-12 at 12:40 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    The "solution" to Disc absorbs...is to give OTHER healers absorbs (or MORE absorbs)!

    Clearly...
    Those "other absorbs" you mention are pretty much non-existent. The Druid one will only be really used every time SM is used. The Monk one is going to be very underwhelming because of how poor the mastery is for Monks, at best they're going to get maybe 1-2 million from it (irregardless of how much mastery they have) simply due to the nature of way the healing spheres work and the Earth Shield bonus isn't some great utopian change which will put ES on par with PW:S as an absorb. Sure, it's passive but really ES hits for 10-15k (non-crit) so the absorb shield is nothing that's going to break the game.

    As I mentioned previously though I'm surprised they made the 2 set tied to Archangel, that pretty much means no Atonement nerf is going to happen which is ... very scary for the future of 10 mans.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Those "other absorbs" you mention are pretty much non-existent. The Druid one will only be really used every time SM is used. The Monk one is going to be very underwhelming because of how poor the mastery is for Monks, at best they're going to get maybe 1-2 million from it (irregardless of how much mastery they have) simply due to the nature of way the healing spheres work and the Earth Shield bonus isn't some great utopian change which will put ES on par with PW:S as an absorb. Sure, it's passive but really ES hits for 10-15k (non-crit) so the absorb shield is nothing that's going to break the game.

    As I mentioned previously though I'm surprised they made the 2 set tied to Archangel, that pretty much means no Atonement nerf is going to happen which is ... very scary for the future of 10 mans.
    I wasn't suggesting that these Tier bonus absorb abilities would be anything stellar. Just funny that Blizzard adds them, after some of their comments about absorbs.

    But, hey, humor doesn't translate well without tone of voice, so I forgive you!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Serenity? Absurd single target hps for high mana cost, together with 2pc bonus. .
    With legendary meta gem and surge of light our single target hps isn't absurd, it's insane and mana shoudn't be a problem.

    wtb 5.4. next week.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    Ugh, stupid phone!

    Slow edit on last post, my bad.

    And the current DI buff is for Disc version only.
    To be fair, I feel like "Holy: When you cast Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing, there is a 40% 100% chance your next Prayer of Mending will not trigger its cooldown, and will jump to each target instantly" would be a little bit incredibly strong. Moving Disc's bonus from DI to 100% proc on Penance (a spell we cannot chain cast...) brings it closer inline with the proc chance of Holy's bonus from DI.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    And the current DI buff is for Disc version only.
    Have you been on the PTR?

    Holy:
    When you cast Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing, there is a 100% chance your next Prayer of Mending will not trigger its cooldown, and will jump to each target instantly.
    Source: http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/109175-d...ht#16965-17056
    Quote Originally Posted by Pet0r-the-Pan View Post
    i would only buy a flying potato

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LeetHaxor View Post
    It probably should be Disc only. PoH > PoM > PoH > PoM ... will be absurd.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfie View Post
    It probably should be Disc only. PoH > PoM > PoH > PoM ... will be absurd.
    Agreed, and would also be able to stack the new 4set incredibly fast, although stacking it in <40s for sanc probably won't be an issue anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pet0r-the-Pan View Post
    i would only buy a flying potato

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    I saw the 2-pc and went HOLY S&*^!!!!!!!! Double the effectiveness of PoH PLUS EoL afterwards? If I'm lucky I can get to 20% mastery buffed and those two spells are going to make all the other healers cry.

    Then I saw the 4-pc and went YAY!!!!!!! Sanctuary can go back to it's glory days of being something that can actually heal people. Even if you're not specced into DI (and really there's no reason not to be) you can guarantee a 400% increase to Sanctuary's healing every time it's off cooldown.

    Think about it, for those saying it still isn't that amazing for Sanctuary. My average tick (non-crit) is 872. So, multiplied by 500%, that's 4,360. On the whole raid. Does that sound like "OMG THAT'S SO OP!!!!". No. But it's wonderful, nonetheless! Of course, once you factor in EoL on top of that, it becomes even better.

    The best part about the holy bonuses is they compliment our two secondary stats so beautifully. You'll want your second haste cap to keep your extra ticks on Sanctuary, and you'll definitely want mastery to gain really high EoL on double effective PoH usage. I think this'll also make use of PI far better than Solace, something else that I like.

    Fenixdown is very happy right now.

  10. #30
    Dreadlord shanthi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhimii View Post
    I thought they had changed Spirit Shell so that mastery didn't affect it? (effect? I have trouble with that...) So... part of the set bonus is useless? Please, correct me if I'm wrong about that!

    EDIT: OMG AM SO SILLY. Mastery also increases Disc's raw healing. 3,500 is a fairly large amount. It's definitely a boon.
    The mastery bonus will probably also make weaving PoH and PW:S during Spirit Shell really strong. Borrowed Time hastes the PoH and the 4p buffs the PW:S. Nice synergy.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie.
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

  11. #31
    Mastery DOES increase spirit shell. It just does not apply an extra bonus.

    spirit shell healing = base*(1+mastery/2)*(1+crit*(1+mastery))

    Thus popping spirit shell during archangel means you get both mastery and crit and 25% increased healing and if you tailor your haste rate 7 casts of spirit shell + 1 cast of PWS.

    A fairly massive boost to spirit shell.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    I think this'll also make use of PI far better than Solace, something else that I like.
    Is anyone else as confused as I am about this post?

    PI is tier 5 and you'll likely never take anything but DI in that tier.

    And Solace is tier 3, so I'm really confused what you mean by this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pet0r-the-Pan View Post
    i would only buy a flying potato

  13. #33
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeetHaxor View Post
    Is anyone else as confused as I am about this post?

    PI is tier 5 and you'll likely never take anything but DI in that tier.

    And Solace is tier 3, so I'm really confused what you mean by this.
    Judging by his post he just throws around random stuff saying he is sooooo happy with this but I'm not sure if he is really thinking about it at all. I mean how can he be so happy about two really lack-lustre setbonusses? In any case, Mindbender and Divine insight are the best choices and I don't see this info having any effect on said choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    I saw the 2-pc and went HOLY S&*^!!!!!!!! Double the effectiveness of PoH PLUS EoL afterwards? If I'm lucky I can get to 20% mastery buffed and those two spells are going to make all the other healers cry.
    Really? | 2x Flashheals + 1 strong PoH on 1 group with a strong EoL vs 2x normal PoH on 2 groups with 2x EoL + a double chance to proc divine insight . How is this a strong setbonus, let alone a "HOLY S*% " setbonus? Little more usefull in 10man I guess but in 25man this setbonus makes me cry, seems like our setbonusses alternate every tier between totally shit and amazing (the 2set t15 is great). I don't see the point ooming myself spamming flashheal to proc a stronger Prayer of Healing when I can spend half the mana to proc more DI and heal two groups laying EoL on both. There just isn't the place in 25man to use Flash Heal so thanks for a non 25man bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    The best part about the holy bonuses is they compliment our two secondary stats so beautifully. You'll want your second haste cap to keep your extra ticks on Sanctuary, and you'll definitely want mastery to gain really high EoL on double effective PoH usage. I think this'll also make use of PI far better than Solace, something else that I like.
    .....what is this I don't even....
    First, the PI,Solace etc is just totally off, they are on different tiers, even if you ment to spell DI instead of PI, or tried to say FDCL (listing possibities here), mindbender and DI are still going to be the best. Also, haste cap will still not be worth it with a mediocre spell like Sanc.(still mediocre after this bonus) we should still go mastery all the way. I just don't get what you're trying to say here like the above poster.

    I doubt though that the 100% PoM divine insight will make it live though, that will basicly make holy priests a 2 button heal class with our only rotation PoH-->PoM-->PoH--->PoM etc. I do cast a lot of PoH's even on semi full groups to proc divine insight right before a heavy dmg phase, but still, nothing near a 2 button class atm.
    Last edited by Outofmana; 2013-06-12 at 08:22 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post

    Really? | 2x Flashheals + 1 strong PoH on 1 group with a strong EoL vs 2x normal PoH on 2 groups with 2x EoL + a double chance to proc divine insight . How is this a strong setbonus, let alone a "HOLY S*% " setbonus? Little more usefull in 10man I guess but in 25man this setbonus makes me cry, seems like our setbonusses alternate every tier between totally shit and amazing (the 2set t15 is great). I don't see the point ooming myself spamming flashheal to proc a stronger Prayer of Healing when I can spend half the mana to proc more DI and heal two groups laying EoL on both. There just isn't the place in 25man to use Flash Heal so thanks for a non 25man bonus.
    You don't seem to get it. In less than the time it takes to cast 2xPoH you can now cast 2x flash heal and 2x PoH. This means that when you have a group with 2 ppl injured and a 5 man group fully injured you can flash the two injured ppl and hit the other group with a 1.7s 100% buffed PoH. Then lets say you have a 10s hard burst. You can precast two flashes and when the burst hits go Lvl90 talent-->PoH--> CoH--> PoM for sick burst. A 1.7s PoH healing for just about 150k per person after crit and mastery does not sound ridiculous to you? You already waste lots of mana pre-casting PoHs to proc DI

    Then again you got glyphed binding heal. You can get absolutely crazy burst with BH-PoH-PoM-CoH.

    As for OOMing your self, when you got your legendary meta proc casting two back to back flash heals already saves you a much bigger chunk of mana than casting a PoH. Now it will also do much higher HPS too.

    Even if DI is 100% for holy you wont be using just PoH/PoM. You also need to add CoH in there to stack the 4p for a sactuary and with the new 2p bonus you definitely want to be adding the occasional flash heals in there. No two button spam for holy.

    This change will probably not make it live, because it is just ridiculously OP.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 10:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shanthi View Post
    The mastery bonus will probably also make weaving PoH and PW:S during Spirit Shell really strong. Borrowed Time hastes the PoH and the 4p buffs the PW:S. Nice synergy.
    I dont think this is the case. Mastery still boosts spirit shell considerably and 3k mastery is not enough to account for a lost cast, or for the fact that PWS is 15s and you can't refresh it. You will probably be better off to tailor your haste to get to 7 PoH casts + 1 PWS during spirit shell.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2013-06-12 at 09:10 PM.

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Whassat? Set bonuses that work for Atonement-based DPS/heal hybrids? You mean I can finally upgrade from t14?

    I approve.

    Math time!

    Assuming maximum usage (burning Archangel on cooldown), the 2pc offers a damage gain of (18/30) * ((1+crit%+10%)/(1+crit%) - 1). Assuming about 30% crit raid buffed (outside Archangel), then that's a 4.6% damage gain from Archangel crit. However, most decent Atonement priests only use Archangel for healing utility, as it incurs a damage loss due to stripping Evangelism. If we assume that we always pop Archangel immediately after Penance, so as to have it built back to 5 stacks before we Penance again, then the damage loss comes out to (20% + 16% + 12%) = 48% of a smite, 8% of a Solace, and 4% of a Penance per activation (I.E. per 30sec). In reality, we can't always archangel at such a convenient time without delaying it, so this estimate will be a little generous. With 80k dps as a baseline, values of 65k, 90k and 195k for Smite, Solace and Penance, respectively (incl crit), then the loss to those 5 casts is about a 46k damage loss, or 46k / 30sec = 1.54k DPS, 1.54k DPS / 80k DPS = 1.9% damage loss due to actually using Archangel. So the net effect of the 2-piece is (1 + 4.6%)(1 - 1.9%) - 1 = 2.6% damage gain, and upwards of 17% healing. (About 17%, plus some because a larger potion of the heals are absorbs, so less overheal inherently, plus they can refresh more old shields that might have expired.)

    As for the 4-piece, I'm a bit wary of using it for DPS; it's just so powerful as healing utility. But let's assume we do. (Yeesh, smiting during Spirit Shell? Like I don't have enough priests calling me retarded as it is... >.>) At 15sec/60sec, and granting 10% haste, we get a damage and bonus of (15/60) * ((1+haste%+10%)/(1+haste%)). If we assume 15.4% buffed haste (amount needed to GCD cap smite during heroism), then this is a damage gain of 2.2%. However! During heroism the extra haste will be almost entirely wasted due to GCD capping, so we'll subtract heroism uptime of 40sec/8min, bringing the DPS value down to 2%. The mastery will also effect our healing output, granting 9.32% mastery during its uptime. Half of this will directly effect healing, plus an additional amount based on crit. Let's assume that Archangel will be up during it, giving us a crit value of 40%. Thus, the net effect on healing from mastery is (15/60) * (9.32% * (.5 + 40%)) = ~2.1%. So the Disc 4-set is much less important for priests that mainly DPS, netting only 2% damage and 4.1% healing.

    Compare this to t14 as it exists today: about 9.6% damage and healing. The delta is -4.9% damage and +12.2% healing. Given that healing is at least as valuable as damage, this is an upgrade for your raid even if you switch from heroic t14 to LFR t16. Note that you're also losing some mobility due to fewer Penance casts. For it to be a strict upgrade (both damage and healing rise) you'll need to gain 4.9% damage from inflated stats on the new gear. Using the rule of thumb of +1% effectiveness per character item level (compounding), we get 4.8 character item levels needed to bridge the damage gap. 4.8 char ilevels * 16 char equip slots / 4 tier equip slots = 19.23 tier item levels to break even on DPS. LFR t16 is 521, while heroic t14 is 509, giving only a +12 ilvl delta, so you're still better off wearing your t14 on fights where healing is trivial (in the heroic-to-LFR case). In all other combinations of difficulties, the new tier will be higher damage as well.

  16. #36
    Ok, but if you have a much higher crit chance to begin with? I already have as much as 43% crit chance while raiding. Next tier it might be as much as 50% at times. Also the new tier pieces are loaded with mastery, spirit and haste. Only the chest piece got a bit of crit. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to ignore them altogether and go for the crit/haste or crit/spirit pieces again.

  17. #37
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saeba View Post
    Ok, but if you have a much higher crit chance to begin with? I already have as much as 43% crit chance while raiding. Next tier it might be as much as 50% at times. Also the new tier pieces are loaded with mastery, spirit and haste. Only the chest piece got a bit of crit. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to ignore them altogether and go for the crit/haste or crit/spirit pieces again.
    Well, haste (which increases RPPM effects such as the legendary meta) and mastery aren't all that much worse than crit, particularly with crit stacked as high as yours. At 28% crit and 15% haste, I'm already at a point where getting the next Shadowfiend breakpoint from haste is more valuable than an equivalent amount of crit. But let's assume crit is 30% ahead of the worst secondary (a generous assumption; they all get closer together as crit rises). To cover a gap of 4.6% damage, nevermind the healing, you need to gain around 15.3% crit or 9.2k rating by wearing off-tier pieces instead in order to break even with the loss of the set bonus. That looks like a "no way in hell" sort of number. Then recall that you can reforge undesirable stats on the tier. So that would leave it only 21% ahead of the worst secondary, needing a whopping 13k rating to break even. That's more than your total crit. From only 4 item slots. That's not happening. Ignoring tier will be a mistake if the bonuses go live as-is. Even more so for non-atonement priests who gain even more benefit from the set bonuses.

  18. #38
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeetHaxor View Post
    Is anyone else as confused as I am about this post?

    PI is tier 5 and you'll likely never take anything but DI in that tier.

    And Solace is tier 3, so I'm really confused what you mean by this.
    Oops, you are right. I did kinda fubar that part a bit. Doh.

    I dunno why I thought PI and Solace were in the same tier for a minute there. That's what I get for reading changes early in the morning when I'm still not at 100% yet.

    The rest though still stands. I'm very happy with these set bonuses. They bring quite a bit of oomph to holy's arsenal.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    You don't seem to get it. In less than the time it takes to cast 2xPoH you can now cast 2x flash heal and 2x PoH. This means that when you have a group with 2 ppl injured and a 5 man group fully injured you can flash the two injured ppl and hit the other group with a 1.7s 100% buffed PoH. Then lets say you have a 10s hard burst. You can precast two flashes and when the burst hits go Lvl90 talent-->PoH--> CoH--> PoM for sick burst. A 1.7s PoH healing for just about 150k per person after crit and mastery does not sound ridiculous to you? You already waste lots of mana pre-casting PoHs to proc DI

    Then again you got glyphed binding heal. You can get absolutely crazy burst with BH-PoH-PoM-CoH.

    As for OOMing your self, when you got your legendary meta proc casting two back to back flash heals already saves you a much bigger chunk of mana than casting a PoH. Now it will also do much higher HPS too.

    Even if DI is 100% for holy you wont be using just PoH/PoM. You also need to add CoH in there to stack the 4p for a sactuary and with the new 2p bonus you definitely want to be adding the occasional flash heals in there. No two button spam for holy.

    This change will probably not make it live, because it is just ridiculously OP.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 10:09 PM ----------



    I dont think this is the case. Mastery still boosts spirit shell considerably and 3k mastery is not enough to account for a lost cast, or for the fact that PWS is 15s and you can't refresh it. You will probably be better off to tailor your haste to get to 7 PoH casts + 1 PWS during spirit shell.
    While I agree DI change for holy probably won't make it live, I have hopes it will. Maybe Blizzard finally realized that the only way they are going holy attractive over disc (especially in 10s) is to make it a bit OP. However, all these posts remind me of the posts before 5.2, where discs were felt shattered by the upcoming nerfs and were ready to go holy, holy priests were finally feeling the spotlight getting closer to them, and then 5.2 came and disc was still the best healer (or 2nd best) in the game, with Atonment being extremely OP.

  20. #40
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    Robes of the Exorcist

    What I'm quite sad (and pissed) about is that we AGAIN get no spirit on our chest. Instead we get crit(woohoo).
    We basicly have no options again when it comes to which tier pieces to take. It's starting to get really anoying that we keep getting restricted like this in our gear choices.
    Last edited by Outofmana; 2013-06-13 at 01:44 PM.

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