View Poll Results: Do you think Bliz will actually nerf KJC?

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  • Yes

    576 74.32%
  • No

    199 25.68%
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  1. #501
    Hmm, but jessicka, most fights have a tendency towards ranged nowadays, its not about the movement issues but more a designing problem if you ask me.
    I am the King of Rome, and above grammar.
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  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Hmm, but jessicka, most fights have a tendency towards ranged nowadays, its not about the movement issues but more a designing problem if you ask me.
    It's the move towards ranged since Wrath that's piled more and more movement onto ranged to try to get things back into melee. It is a design issue, and it's an arms race without which KJC wouldn't feel so necessary. With it, it just piles more pressure on designers to have ranged move more and more and KJC just becomes viewed as increasingly necessary.

    Is that a problem Hunters would perpetuate? Not sure, it's one class and it doesn't bring nearly as much utility as the magic users (Mages aside, I think they are lacking in the utility department, but I don't expect much sympathy for them on this forum).

  3. #503
    I love my mages, they carry me. They got far better direct damage then warlocks, atleast in my eyes.
    I am the King of Rome, and above grammar.
    - Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor


  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    I love my mages, they carry me. They got far better direct damage then warlocks, atleast in my eyes.
    Oh, they do great damage, they're fun to play and they're a popular class as a result. I think they suffer a bit in 10s though, had to bench one too many times in place of a Shadow Priest in the past.

    Also Combustion <3

  5. #505
    I'm doing 25mans so maybe you're right in that regard. Regardless I love mages. I got a mage alt too
    I am the King of Rome, and above grammar.
    - Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor


  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Melee are most definitely being benched. I'm playing a bit more casually than I'd probably like at the moment, we still bench melee in guild runs and never look for melee specifically for pugs.
    Looking for 10m normal perspective
    Jin-rokh - melee don't get targetted by balls and can dps in puddle all time, more melee means ranged have to move more but overall raid dps stays same.
    Horridon - raid should be moving as group, great way to cleave and interrupts are must for second and fourth gate, could prolly kill it in all melee group
    Council - lolcleave, 2-3 ranged on Kazra to break him, 3-4 melee works.
    Tortos - Just enough ranged to kill turtles in time before next spawn, rest can be melee
    Megeara - if you use no-blue power-through tactic, green aoe will hurt more than it should. Otherwise shouldn't be problem to bring more melee.
    Ji-kun - doesn't matter what you bring
    Durumu - doesn't matter, melee don't lose dps in maze
    Primordius - one that might slightly favor ranged with spines mutation, still 3 melees should find positions. Or they can just run and kill more blobs for later instead.
    Animus - doesn't matter, in fact at least 2 melees are encouraged for anima ring
    Iron Qon - up to 4 melee, triangle at boss, 2 tanks at face, 2 on back left, 2 on back right. Not active tank can go to group soaking energy on p1, at worse one melee have to run and not dps for ~10 seconds. Getting rid of lightning debuff is pain, but after they don't suffer from boss shield.
    Twins - not a boss
    Lei Shen - enough ranged to cover bouncing balls (2+healers), rest can melee. No running from thunderstruck, whip. No need to run to aoe balls, no need to spread.

    Ofc above may vary on hc and 25 version, but for 10n, not taking melee is pure prejudice.
    Last edited by Nivrax; 2013-06-15 at 10:23 AM.

  7. #507
    The Patient kenshinag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Well he's got a point there. Hunters are weird. They're ranged, like a caster, but then they need Expertise like a melee. They're an inbetween class, not entirely bound by the rules that govern either melee or Ranged. I have no beef about that.
    We could do 7.5% expertise / 7.5% hit too if we wanted to. Hell we could do 15% expertise.
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  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by kenshinag View Post
    We could do 7.5% expertise / 7.5% hit too if we wanted to. Hell we could do 15% expertise.
    Hunters don't have that choice though. It's a minor thing, but it shows it's not just some assgrab justification they came up with on the spot. I really feel this is what was intended for Hunters for a while now, the whole ranged melee thing.

    I also don't feel like we should be making demands for mobility cause Hunters can cast everything on the move. It needs to be why WE need it. Looking at other classes, with other designs, and design problems, and niches is not going to help. Look at our own class, and explain that the DPS loss through having nmomthing to cast through moving AND loosing out on the resources we don't generate in that time hurts us more then it should.

    If we get compensated for this loss then I have no beef with not being able to move and cast, it's just that the initial intention doesn't seem to be to compensate us. Now this might be down to something as simple as that they want to see how much worse we do in terms of DPS before they buff us back up, but I don't trust in that dynamic completely. We'll have to wait and see though, raid testing won't be here for a good while yet, and I assume that's where most of the data will come from.

    It would theoretically from PvP testing too, but we all know that's always severly lacking on the PTR. I'm just going to assume PvP for locks will be horrible next season, regardless of anything, cause these changes won't be compensated for PvP.
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  9. #509
    With regards to melee not being able to get to boss: I'd also like to point out that hitboxes are huge right now. Pretty sure you can melee most bosses from VERY forgiving distance.

    With regards to the "arms race": I think having casters mobile allows for better encounter designs. More things can be thrown our way. Encounter designs have progressed and become much more intricate. I would rather not go back to "side step this puddle every 20 seconds".

    Also I think if you review Hunters you'll find they bring a large and varied amount of raid utility.

    Focusing on why WE need mobility: We lost a lot of our instant casts. We lost a lot of our CC. Melee have more gap closers now. Most classes have beefed up cc's. Encounter designs are moving in that direction. Other solutions presented so far seem lacking, cause more button and macro bloat, do not really address the issue or create more issues. Not to mention the timing is horrible for such a change.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-06-15 at 01:38 PM.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    With regards to melee not being able to get to boss: I'd also like to point out that hitboxes are huge right now. Pretty sure you can melee most bosses from VERY forgiving distance.
    Rogues and feral druids for instance gain energy while they're not attacking.
    Warlocks gain nothing.

  11. #511
    Maybe we could generate embers from moving? Or we start with full embers that deplete as we cast and build back up like an energy bar?

    Or we just leave well enough a lone and go fix other problems.....

  12. #512
    I do find it very useful KJC , indd great tool , but i also think the impact will not be as hurtfull as many think , at least on the very high lvl skilled locks(pve wise) .Wrapping ur brain around any boss mechanics and with some prepositioning and smart reactions it will not be as high impact on your dps as much as it is loosing MF on some other fights.That is my opinion.Our passive defense sistem is going to hurt a little bit from ocasionally from nerfing KJC aswel.

  13. #513
    I dont see the new KJC as a nerf.

    Its an active talent now with 15 second duration and a 1.5 min CD, that's better than the shaman's Spiritwalker's grace.

    They removed the slow on it, so you are actually moving while casting AT NORMAL speed.

    I think they actually buffed it.

  14. #514
    What if moving depleted embers/soul shard/demonic fury as well as movement speed? BUT they kept it as a passive like now.

  15. #515
    Warlocks got lazy with KJC. You dont need to be always moving while casting ya know. 30% reduced speed sucked.

  16. #516
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banawani View Post
    Utility would be like Demonic Gateway or Demonic Circle which is what the T6 talents should be.. but that'd make too much sense for Blizzard.
    Not really a great example gateway would crush circle every time ... but yeah, your point is valid.

  17. #517
    Kinda amuses me that the KJC nerf will actually make the Kanrethad fight harder.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Mech View Post
    Kinda amuses me that the KJC nerf will actually make the Kanrethad fight harder.

    No it wont.

  19. #519
    It wont make much difference to the fight at all. Any difficulty increase from not being able to dps while moving, will be more than offset by dps gains from gear we have by that stage.

    You dont need to stand still to cast charge, singe, felflame breath, purge magic etc etc.

  20. #520
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filth the Warlock View Post
    Rogues and feral druids for instance gain energy while they're not attacking.
    Warlocks gain nothing.
    Any Rogue/Feral that doesn't attack will become energy capped, unless they're energy starved, and either way they'll still lose damage from auto-attacks, poison etc. Besides, you could make the same argument about Destro when moving can regen mana and it wouldn't hold up either.

    Besides, why are we meant to gain anything from movement in the first place? It's meant to be a gauge so that the skilled players who can predict movement and plan accordingly can reap the reward of a less disrupted rotation/dps.
    Last edited by Queen Ultima; 2013-06-15 at 11:07 PM.

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