View Poll Results: Do you think Bliz will actually nerf KJC?

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  • Yes

    576 74.32%
  • No

    199 25.68%
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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    You realize that for affliction, randomly Fel Flaming is going to do more harm then good right? Might not be huge for Demo/Destro (disregarding the insane mana cost)
    This is quite obvious. So maybe the solution would be to make Fel Flame actually worthwhile and not being able to cast on the move like an idiot.

    To me KJC is actually the reason why i dislike playing my lock. Its just way too easy not having to think about when and how to move, in a game thats pretty much based on movement. Yet i still have to take it, since its required to perform optimally. This ontop of having an already dumbed down Rotation as Affliction compared to earlier days, makes it really not fun to play. To me the Demonology Model seems perferct. Being able to DPS on the move (in Meta), but having to plan ahead for it to actually work well.

    Similiar things could be done for Affliction, if Fel Flame wasnt so shit...

    EDIT: Btw there already is a somewhat fun mechanic in place for movement fights, its called pandemic. Sadly it suffers the same problems as Fel Flame, as it fucks up the snapshotting of your dots...
    Last edited by burk23; 2013-06-12 at 10:04 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerOnly View Post
    You know, I understand the "In my day it was so bad blah blah blah uphill both ways blah blah" mentality, except for the part where I don't understand it at all.

    Casting only when standing still: feels like 2003
    Cast while moving: an upgrade in fun

    I remember a day before my cellphone, and I survived just fine without it. But, if someone steals it today, I won't say "Oh wells! I did fine before I even had it!"

    I'll say "Damn! Playing puzzle and dragon on my phone while I wait for my food at Subway or wherever is a lot more fun than just sitting there and doing nothing. I want the fun back!"

    Just because the fun is new, doesn't mean that it doesn't suck when it goes away.

    WTF is even with you saying that? Are you denying that casting while moving adds new flavor to the class? It implies that the only concern you have while playing is "how many numbers do I have", and I think a lot of people (several million based on sub losses since Cata and MoP started to make you invest pain-in-the-ass amounts of time to give you more numbers) don't like playing that way.

    It's more entertaining to be able to cast while I'm moving than it is to have to stand PERFECTLY STILL to cast spells, and I'll lose a lot of interest in my warlock if I can't do so.

    I've got 9 other characters that I can play: why keep playing the one that just had it's fun nerfed? Hell, I've got a ton of other games to play.

    So yeah, I think some people actually _did_ play warlock for KJC, i seem to remember a few people in the thread so far implying just that, and I do think that warlock starts being a little pointless compared to mage or SP without it.

    Removing it just seems cruel, considering it isn't even that great a talent to begin with (mechanically) compared to how much fun it is.

    I mean, seriously. The level 90 talent that _all it does_ is let you move while casting, and even _imposes a penalty_ when you use it. Isn't that kind of like Titan's Grip for warriors, that let's you DW 2handed weapons, except you move 30% slower? Would anyone even take that talent? It's so ridiculously underbalanced just to provide you with a simple gameplay mechanic to increase how fluid and organic your gameplay is while providing very little mechanical improvement; but somehow it needs to be nerfed? FFS won't you lose damage from spending the global casting it just compared to freaking felflaming unless you're Aff anyways?

    Nerfing it is ridiculous, and I truly hope they won't. Honestly, it's time to just _let_ casters move while casting anyway. Is there a single game besides WoW that imposes a movement restriction on spellcasting anymore? It's mind-boggling.
    Did you find locks fun in TBC? Did you find them fun in Wrath? Did you find them fun in Cata? If you did, then the loss of moving while casting shouldn't be some destroyer of the class for you. Sure, it might not be as fun as it is now, I agree...but it shouldn't be some sort of soul crushing despair, either.

    As for the last question, I know there are a lot of spells in Rift with a cast or channel time...a lot in TOR that have a cast or channel time...not sure about others.

  3. #43
    KJC is definitely too good in the large scheme of things; the version they are proposing, however, is not very exciting to say the least. More fixing has to be done than just making it a CD.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    You realize that's basically how it always was for Aff(they didn't used to have an option to randomly FF), going back to my point about people acting like they rolled a lock solely for cast while moving ability?

    Yes, losing the ability to cast while moving is unfortunate...but being unable to cast while moving should NOT come as some sort of system shock to people who played locks through the prior 3 expansions.
    You realize affliction double dips from your dots and replacing them with way worse ones for the sake of casting something is shooting yourself in the foot twice?
    MoP affliction is nothing like Cata affliction. (Where fel flame only added time to UA may i add, and you didnt need to channel of your dots damage)

    Edit: I'm not against nerfing/removing KJC at all, i just feel like we wont be given a decent option of what to do when moving then.
    Last edited by Tryana; 2013-06-12 at 10:20 AM.
    Trylb / Galesin
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  5. #45
    Well, I can't understand why they decided it was too good. It's clearly a mechanic that needs to be ported to every class.

    KJC as it is now should just have been made baseline, then changed to something like increased movement speed while casting or double ember/shard generation. I don't know.

    I just feel it's about time every caster was able to move while casting.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Did nobody play locks prior to MoP?

    Just curious why everyone feels so entitled to being able to cast while moving and acting like changing it is taking away from the very nature of what made a lock, when prior to this expansion you had to stand and cast like everybody else.
    Don't be ignorant.

    It still doesn't give blizzard the right to make such a drastic change mid way through an expansion. This isn't the time for it! GC himself stated that the days of "turret casting" would be a thing of the past. Times change, get use to it.

    Affliction and destruction are built around KJC. If these changes go live then you can say goodbye to having three viable specs.

    “The only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go of your life: your memories, your attachments. They burn 'em all away. But they're not punishing you,' he said. 'They're freeing your soul. Relax.”

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    Did you find locks fun in TBC? Did you find them fun in Wrath? Did you find them fun in Cata? If you did, then the loss of moving while casting shouldn't be some destroyer of the class for you. Sure, it might not be as fun as it is now, I agree...but it shouldn't be some sort of soul crushing despair, either.

    As for the last question, I know there are a lot of spells in Rift with a cast or channel time...a lot in TOR that have a cast or channel time...not sure about others.
    You see, no, I didn't. In fact, in TBC and Wrath our guild didn't even have any warlocks (which annoyed me as the raid leader, locks do great damage ) because it seemed nobody on horde on our realm liked warlock. I've seen so many more warlocks since KJC, and I leveled mine past 80 finally because of it. Before that, I thought it was a half-assed mage that was less powerful (individually) since the pet was supposed to be a part of the damage, and I don't care too much for pets, so I'd rather play mage. Warlock was my least favorite class, and the only class none of my IRL friends played. Now we all have 90 warlocks that we play from time to time, KJC also makes farming old reps and minipets less of a hassle, most of my IRL friends log on their Warlocks once a week minimum, and they all went 6 years playing the game without getting one past level 40 (they all just rolled SP or mage instead).

    Warlock without KJC goes back to being a Mage(Dest)/SP(Aff) combo with demonology thrown in their if you really dig it (which is a personal thing, some do and some don't). It truly is the one thing that is currently completely unique to Warlock. Every other paradigm of the warlock is done by another class, often with a more consistent thematic component.

    Destro: basically a fire mage that Chaos Bolts instead of Pyroblasting. Mechanics a little different, but still basically the same, but without portals/blink/food/AI.
    Aff: basically SP with a permanent pet and a few different mechanics to keep their dots rolling and buffed. if SP mind blast refreshed SWP and VT, it would just be haunt, let's be honest.
    Demo: at least has meta to differentiate it from BM hunters, but still very similar. Probably the least similar to something pre-existing, but it's similar enough.

    Like the dark and spiteful theme of Warlock? Well, you can get that from SP or DK easily, and both of those have more thematic elements to work with. Shadow Form is excessively fun (and would be even if it was just cosmetic) in terms of being an EVIL DUDE. DK has undead you can mess with for thematic fun-ness.

    Basically, KJC gave people a reason to play warlock besides "Lock does crazy damage, yo", which honestly isn't as big a draw for a lot of people. The class would surely have been fine if they never gave us KJC, but taking it away now would be similar to if they just removed transmogrification: nerfing fun. I really hope they don't, because I know about 10 people that will just stop playing their lock if it goes. Anecdotal, yes, but honestly -- nerfing fun is objectively a bad choice.

    In response to the last sentence, last time I played SWTOR I swear I remember that yes, there were cast/channeled spells, but I remember being able to move while they were being cast. I could be remembering incorrectly.

  8. #48
    This sucks big time!

    To the people saying locks were fine before KJC.

    Yes they were but don't forget they were completely redesigned for MoP WITH KJC in mind. This will massively hurt affliction, destruction a bit less and demo the least of all specs but it is a massive nerf.

    KJC was not OP, the class was designed around it. I'd say nerf it by bringing the original implementation back of passive + CD and the passive is inactive while on CD not his crap.

    All those people happy with the KJC nerf, what the f*** will you take as your 90 talent NOW? Are you happy about your choices?

    Jeeeees, some people....
    In MoP we all got a Legen...........wait for it...........dary!

  9. #49
    I can't believe there are people saying that KJC is what made warlocks unique/good./whatever. This is unbelievable. Really. Warlocks have so much diversity and utility that saying "KJC is the reason I play lock", is a bit... off.
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerOnly View Post
    In response to the last sentence, last time I played SWTOR I swear I remember that yes, there were cast/channeled spells, but I remember being able to move while they were being cast. I could be remembering incorrectly.
    You are remembering incorrectly. As for the rest, okay, if you never found warlock fun prior to MoP, okay then...but I certainly don't notice locks any more now than I have in the past. They aren't rare, but I haven't noticed any big surge in warlock presence, either, so yeah, anecdotal is anecdotal.

  11. #51
    I had tons of fun playing my lock at the BC-era. I had fun playing it at wrath. I didn't play him during cataclysm 'cuz my guild was needing a palaheal.

    I had ton of fun in MOP, being able to cast while moving (even with a cost) is such a great quality of life. It's like being granted ADSL+ while you spend your youth surfing with 56k.

    And now, by removing it i'm back to 56k, with people telling me "You had fun with 56k when you were young, so you will continue now"

    No I'm not. I'm accustomed to cast while moving. My specialisation DPS is MADE around casting while moving. If you remove that, we will need a compensation.

  12. #52
    I like that actually, hope we get rid of all the fotm and reroll noobs. Plus as demo i dont really care, the only ones who have to worry about that change are my healers, because im going AV and eat ALL the voids.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Obikwan View Post
    All those people happy with the KJC nerf, what the f*** will you take as your 90 talent NOW? Are you happy about your choices?
    I wasn't happy about my choices BEFORE, it was 2 junky talents and 1 mandatory. Besides, my main is a DK, I'm used to having a bad lvl 90 talent in PvE.

    Anyway, I didn't say I was happy about the nerf, yeah, it sucks, nerfs always do, I mean hey, my warrior misses the days of Cata where I could go in BGs and kill a dude in the space of 1 Throwdown, but that's how it goes. I guess I just don't understand how it's such a deal breaker, unless you never played lock prior to MoP...yes, it sucks losing the ability, but you got by without it for 2-4 prior xpacs so I would think you could readjust to doing it again.
    Last edited by Stormcall; 2013-06-12 at 10:53 AM.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgase View Post
    Demonology, Here I come!

    in all seriousness, i agree a nerf was due to somewhere but going from 100% up time to 1/6 of the time if u pop it always seems a bit drastic. Compared to other classes Lvl 90's talents we have jack shit now...

    at least could have swapped out one of 'm with a cool ability
    *cough* DKs, Mages and Rogues want to have a talk with you.

  15. #55
    Will be very sad to see it go, would rather casting can be done on the move for everyone rather than the select few tho.
    Personally don't see how it was OP apart from chasing healers around pillars, the slow was more than enough to let melee stay on us.

    However I've been a warlock fan since Vanilla and will still enjoy it next xpac, but still will miss KJC

  16. #56
    Does it need a nerf? Maybe.

    Is 15s on a 90s CD too big a nerf? YES.

    Is Xs on a Ys CD a good solution? No.

    They could do so many interesting things with it. For example, they could add another component to the slow. Make it also cause you to take 25%/50% more damage... Or make it cause you to take 25%/50% less heals. Make it so your spell haste/crit/mastery/spell power/whatever is reduced by some 10% per stack. Or hell, how about each spell cast while moving reduces your maximum health by 5% for 20s stacking up to 5 times. I could sit here all day long thinking of ways to nerf the ability without making it completely worthless.

    Unfortunately, Blizzard never does anything in half-measures. If they get an idea that something needs to be nerfed, it's gonna be nerfed into the ground.

    RIP in piece, KJC.

  17. #57
    Scarab Lord Thelxi's Avatar
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    I think it is a very wrong call to make such a change mid expansion. I was kinda expecting this next expansion, but not out of the blue especially after a blue actually said that they were fine with casters casting while moving and even talking about compensating melee in other ways like superior cleave/aoe.

    Not to mention the snare which already is substantial and detrimental in many situations. I think that Blizzard is simply giving in again to warlock "feedback" from spriests and mages.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    I guess I just don't understand how it's such a deal breaker, unless you never played lock prior to MoP...yes, it sucks losing the ability, but you got by without it for 2-4 prior xpacs so I would think you could readjust to doing it again.
    I've been a warlock since 2006 and was actually very much excited with the changes in MoP and the freshness they breathed into the class.

    This is just a major nerf in the fun factor and that's more what is bothering me rather than my relative position on the meters.

    Not to mention that we can pretty much run without lvl 90 talents now as they will be useless.
    In MoP we all got a Legen...........wait for it...........dary!

  19. #59
    The most OP talent in the game got nerfed. How surprising.

  20. #60
    KJC is very good, but you can't just nerf it to the ground w/o buffing something else. Affliction will lose at least 20% dmg on movement fight and will drop completely from pve if other things are not tweaked to compensate for huge MG uptime loss... Don't even get me started on how clunky does clicking KJC feel and how bad design it is :[

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