View Poll Results: Do you think Bliz will actually nerf KJC?

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  • Yes

    576 74.32%
  • No

    199 25.68%
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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarange View Post
    I had a glimpse of the future.

    They make a fel flame glyph wich makes it act like a MG tick, instead of extending dots.
    (That with castable on the move haunt and, a minor mana reduction, would be more than okay by me)
    They feel its to mandatory/op for aff locks and revert the change.

    Damn, that would actually be nice in pvp, too nice probably.
    I made a suggestion like that earlier in this thread.
    Last edited by Keldion; 2013-06-17 at 11:35 PM.
    Warlock DOT Haste Spreadsheet 5.4 - Level 90

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Ghostcrawler has repeatedly said that they hold off on class-changing changes until expansions, because they have the belief that changing too much in a patch in an expansion is just too much for the common player to handle.

    The KjC/MF change is just that. It's a significant change to how Warlocks play mid-expansion.
    I'm not convinced reverting to Fel Flame, where we were just a few months ago and had been for two and a half years prior is all that radical. Especially when you'd been continuing to do that when you swapped out for MF anyway. I'd think it was more radical to revert after 2 1/2 tiers come 6.0.

  3. #643
    The idea is that if it was reviewed between expansions it could be looked at and balanced more fully, more elegantly, rather then the hack slash job most of us expect.


    Quite frankly, it would also give me hope that they could find a way to keep and expand upon caster movement.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    The idea is that if it was reviewed between expansions it could be looked at and balanced more fully, more elegantly, rather then the hack slash job most of us expect.

    Quite frankly, it would also give me hope that they could find a way to keep and expand upon caster movement.
    They could still do that. But as it is, it's just easier to nerf the shit out of it than try to rework the role of melee and the mobility issues of at least 6 other ranged DPS specs in the game mid-expansion. I'm also not sure how wise neutering such a self evidently successful cornerstone of encounter design that the 'movement check' is, would be, mid-expansion.

  5. #645
    The options as I see it: No change needed to KJC (seems debatable)

    Change KJC and rebalance around it (have read many pages intelligently expressing the reasons)

    Change KJC and leave all else alone (personally what I think will happen cause, you know, too much change)

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They could still do that. But as it is, it's just easier to nerf the shit out of it than try to rework the role of melee and the mobility issues of at least 6 other ranged DPS specs in the game mid-expansion. I'm also not sure how wise neutering such a self evidently successful cornerstone of encounter design that the 'movement check' is, would be, mid-expansion.
    What is the reason for having to rework the other specs mid-expansion?

    I do not, and I have yet to, see any actual factual proof that KjC causes Warlocks to be stronger than all others by a significant margin on any fight in ToT


    You keep talking like this has to happen, right now. I just don't see why it has to happen now and can't be done between expansions, when significant changes to playstyles has traditionally occured.


    Please, enlighten me, but I just don't see it yet.

  7. #647
    BIG update, source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=111#2202

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

    Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.

    Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

    There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

    These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.
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  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    What is the reason for having to rework the other specs mid-expansion?

    I do not, and I have yet to, see any actual factual proof that KjC causes Warlocks to be stronger than all others by a significant margin on any fight in ToT


    You keep talking like this has to happen, right now. I just don't see why it has to happen now and can't be done between expansions, when significant changes to playstyles has traditionally occured.


    Please, enlighten me, but I just don't see it yet.
    Because it does not need to be changed at the current time.

    This is simply a knee-jerk reaction for two reasons:

    First and foremost, Blizzard hates the fact that the vast majority of people are using KjC. It takes away from the entire design approach of this expansion. The concept (which failed) that each talent choice would be just as strong as the next; there would no longer be any cookie-cutter specs or preferred talents. People pick KjC for a few reasons and they revolve around enjoying the play-style/gameplay and disliking the other choices in the tier (especially AV which is seen as horridly useless and bad design). MF is a great choice but if you are not in a guild that is pushing 13/13H then the fun factor and gameplay changes that KjC bring can and do outweigh the benefit of MF.

    The second is due in part to the complainers who dislike the fact that Warlocks get such a vast gameplay change that they cannot have. It stands out as a waving red flag, in much the same way as Chaos Bolt did pre-nerf. People whole hardly ignored many other abilities that were just as overpowered. Nothing else literally screamed across their screen such as the green bolt flying in for a critical. Oddly enough with the resilience changes and the change to PvP Power CB now hits like a wet noodle. Are they going to revert the change to CB? No. Why not? After all the purpose of the nerf was do to the supposed 'insane burst'.

  9. #649
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Is it bad to dance in the street with this? I'm dancing in the street with this change.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    Is it bad to dance in the street with this? I'm dancing in the street with this change.
    Certainly a step in the right direction.

  11. #651
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    Certainly a step in the right direction.
    Oh yeah, I'm not saying this is gonna be the best change ever, and I doubt that this will be without balancing issues itself, but at least people can see the Blizzard IS trying to do their best to replace KjC and Warlock's problems, and not give the "in DS they only said "there's an expansion coming up" so I don't like them".

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    Certainly a step in the right direction.
    It is better. I still hate the drastic change, but in the very least they are compromising significantly from their earlier stance, perhaps the first pass was done solely for the purpose of making us more accepting of this change. We still get the fun of having something to cast on the move, while not keeping up a full rotation. I do dislike the fact that I did use fel fire occasionally for extending corruption as demo when buffs were up and I was short on fury. Technically if you have the procs up it's a better button to push than just the corruption button. I could probably stomach this though, and it finally gives fel flame a real job than it's previously failed attempt to mimic ice lance with warlock flavor. Now it just mimics scorch >.> Can we just summon suicidal imps to throw at people instead? In seriousness though, I hope they do remember to drop fel flame's mana cost to something reasonable, or flat out free.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    BIG update, source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=111#2202

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

    Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.

    Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

    There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

    These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.
    Level 15 Ice Floes still better...

  14. #654
    As a shadowpriest I'd cry with happiness getting something similar... Together with the change to MG for affliction it doesn't seem too bad for you now.
    Shadow on the other hand is stuck with 0 spells to cast when moving if you got a UVLS SW:P rolling.
    Don't get me wrong, I see your issues. I'm just saying you could have had it much worse.

  15. #655
    Pit Lord Packers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    Oh yeah, I'm not saying this is gonna be the best change ever, and I doubt that this will be without balancing issues itself, but at least people can see the Blizzard IS trying to do their best to replace KjC and Warlock's problems, and not give the "in DS they only said "there's an expansion coming up" so I don't like them".
    Honestly this is kind of pathetic. They gutted dest and offered nothing of any substance on how that is going to work. Without RoF where are the embers coming from etc. Demo, the strongest spec atm seems to be getting a buff and and aff seems to get a buff to AOE.
    The fel flame change is a slap in the face IMO and i would expect most of this to be changed before 5.4

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juicebox View Post
    As a shadowpriest I'd cry with happiness getting something similar... Together with the change to MG for affliction it doesn't seem too bad for you now.
    Shadow on the other hand is stuck with 0 spells to cast when moving if you got a UVLS SW:P rolling.
    Don't get me wrong, I see your issues. I'm just saying you could have had it much worse.
    Don't think we disagree with you. The problem is that our class has been balanced around KJC and their attempt to rebalance it as a cooldown is, so far, proving half-hearted and clumsy (not to mention it pretends Destro doesn't exist).
    The plural of anecdote is not "data".

  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juicebox View Post
    As a shadowpriest I'd cry with happiness getting something similar... Together with the change to MG for affliction it doesn't seem too bad for you now.
    Shadow on the other hand is stuck with 0 spells to cast when moving if you got a UVLS SW:P rolling.
    Don't get me wrong, I see your issues. I'm just saying you could have had it much worse.
    Yeah, I'm pretty thoroughly shocked that Spriests don't have something similar to this already, but if this proves as successful as I feel it *may* then we could see this being ported to Boomkins/Arcane Mages/Spriests. The only problem I see personally is that they're emulating Scorch with this new design for Fel Flame, but what makes Scorch so valuable is that it can still proc the precursor buff for instant pyros. In a sense, Destruction and Demo would see Ember/Fury procs with the damage from Fel Flame but Affliction gets no mechanical benefit from casting it. It would just be nice to see them think the design through a bit more and have spec related intricacies interwoven.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    Is it bad to dance in the street with this? I'm dancing in the street with this change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    Certainly a step in the right direction.
    Are you being sarcastic? You've gotta be. Turning Fel Flame into a horrible green version of Scorch is an even laughably worse idea than the Haunt one.

  19. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    BIG update, source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=111#2202

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

    Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.

    Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

    There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

    These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.
    Damn, long overdue. If they buff the dots themselves and not just Haunt, multidotting will be completely out of hand in PvE and PvP Affliction could get useful with some proper pressure going for once as well...

  20. #660
    More destruction PvP nerfs. Greeeeaaaat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD5WyyS_ENY

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