View Poll Results: Do you think Bliz will actually nerf KJC?

Voters
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  • Yes

    576 74.32%
  • No

    199 25.68%
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  1. #821

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by Mctriple View Post
    3-5% is not bad. However, I think it should be buffed a bit more. Maybe up to 10% at the most for fights where it's extremely good and around 5% for more typical fights. The major problem with KJC is that the other two talents just aren't very good. MF is decent here and there but still pales in comparison most of the time. AV more so. KJC will stop being the only choice anybody takes when it's nerfed a little and, more importantly, the others are buffed a little.
    Currently, KJC isn't used 100% for Demonology and Destruction. With the exception of a few fights, Demonology uses MF for everything right now. It will stay that way in 5.4, and it will likely be a dps increase when used with Immolation Aura and DS.

    Destruction used MF for Ember Generation on spread targets and for FnB spam on spread targets, but with the nerf its likely that they'll be using KJC more often than before. If MF turns out to be a single target DPS increase for them (lining up with DS once per minute), they might take that on fights with little movement.

    Affliction on the other hand has no chance of benefiting from MF single target, and values KJC far more than Demonology does. Affliction needs more attention, or some way to make the other options more attractive.

  3. #823
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Not fussed if major or minor. I'm worried the echo chamber of those very rare Affliction PvE occasions that'll downgrade your DoTs has been overblown and caused what is actually a pretty hefty nerf to Destro/Demo and PVP.
    I'm not sure if I'd consider those situations "very rare".

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonofhyjal View Post
    I am kinda confused about all this Fel Flame talk. Why does it still need changed again? Increased damage would be nice cuz who doesn't want free damage buffs. But who still uses FF anyways? I MAYBE use it once per fight, and that's only if I have really weird trinket procs on the pull/on DS mid fight.
    They want FF to be the mobility option for anyone who chooses MF or AV
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  4. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Not fussed if major or minor. I'm worried the echo chamber of those very rare Affliction PvE occasions that'll downgrade your DoTs has been overblown and caused what is actually a pretty hefty nerf to Destro/Demo and PVP.
    You really need to stop with the "sky is falling" posts in every thread. I'm not trying to attack you, but I haven't seen a single positive post from you since the 5.4 changes were announced.

    Also, just because you don't play Affliction doesn't mean that Fel Flame weakening your DoTs wouldn't happen on a constant basis. Any fight with even minor movement would see Fel Flame nerfing Corruption and UA several times throughout the fight. Proper Affliction play is all about keeping the strongest DoTs possible, and any time you have movement and your procs aren't up, Fel Flame would simply be a dps loss. Blizzard and GC saw that fact (Thankfully) and fixed it.

  5. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciante View Post
    Hmm so we get Spellpower, presumably from taking damage? I hope they close the loopholes on that one so it doesn't promote standing in poo, otherwise this might actually be a pretty good solution. Easily tuneable too, if it's too strong, or too weak.

    Sapperwix said there might be another PTR push tomorrow or early next week, so let's hope they get it in that biuld so we can check it out.

  6. #826
    I loved the spell, but it's simple to see why it's OP. Moving casters. Kinda takes away the thing casters have to deal with; moving. Moving should be a melee perk imo, nowadays we have too many cast-while-moving spells in WoW, KJC took the prize. So yeah, I think Blizz is right in nerfing it.

  7. #827

    Should Drain Soul and Soul Fire be Inculded in KJC

    To be honest, I really didn't think KJC needed a change, it was one of the few Lock talents that were actually worth a hoot, but Blizz doesn't like it's customers to be satisfied so here we are.

    As affliction, 20% of the fight our " filler " is Drain Soul....and for other specs I think Soulfire still gets a buff at 20% of bosses health

    It only makes sense to include them with the " reworked " KJC, does it not ? After all, it is 1/5 of the fight.

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    To be honest, I really didn't think KJC needed a change, it was one of the few Lock talents that were actually worth a hoot, but Blizz doesn't like it's customers to be satisfied so here we are.

    As affliction, 20% of the fight our " filler " is Drain Soul....and for other specs I think Soulfire still gets a buff at 20% of bosses health

    It only makes sense to include them with the " reworked " KJC, does it not ? After all, it is 1/5 of the fight.
    it was OP, you can ask any lock not trying to hide it, or anyone that doesnt play a lock.
    drain soul being included in KJC would lead to such stupid things, Oh hey there pillar humping, dont mind if i have drain soul going while running around with no reduction whatsoever.

    the only thing that would be maybe okay is chaos bolt for destros to actually use it

  9. #829
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    To be honest, I really didn't think KJC needed a change, it was one of the few Lock talents that were actually worth a hoot, but Blizz doesn't like it's customers to be satisfied so here we are.

    As affliction, 20% of the fight our " filler " is Drain Soul....and for other specs I think Soulfire still gets a buff at 20% of bosses health

    It only makes sense to include them with the " reworked " KJC, does it not ? After all, it is 1/5 of the fight.
    Moved this to the existing KJC discussion as it doesn't need it's own thread.

    OT: No, I don't think so. This whole nerf is to make us more vulnerable to movement, including our better fillers when we have decent fillers we can use kinda makes the whole fact of trying to nerf it moot. Waht's left we CAN'T use then if they include those? No, there must be some limitation to the talent, also in order to keep the other talents interesting. The way they have it mind now is more then we could have possibly hoped for allready.

  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    it was OP, you can ask any lock not trying to hide it, or anyone that doesnt play a lock.
    drain soul being included in KJC would lead to such stupid things, Oh hey there pillar humping, dont mind if i have drain soul going while running around with no reduction whatsoever.

    the only thing that would be maybe okay is chaos bolt for destros to actually use it
    Hunters are ok though?
    http://i5.minus.com/iT9gBOC94PbmU.jpgNON SINE DIIS ANIMOSUS INFANS
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    This term isn't far off, though it would need the word "scientific" in front of it.
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  11. #831
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    I'm not sure if I'd consider those situations "very rare".

    They want FF to be the mobility option for anyone who chooses MF or AV
    Latest tweets suggesting putting it back by a glyph. I'm cool with that. And yeah, it is rare that hitting FF will drop your dots SP, it's almost always neutral, with probably same positive as there are negative. I know this because I watch Affdots and have noted it's something that's not that common; and as something that's not that common it really stands out when it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    You really need to stop with the "sky is falling" posts in every thread. I'm not trying to attack you, but I haven't seen a single positive post from you since the 5.4 changes were announced.

    Also, just because you don't play Affliction doesn't mean that Fel Flame weakening your DoTs wouldn't happen on a constant basis. Any fight with even minor movement would see Fel Flame nerfing Corruption and UA several times throughout the fight. Proper Affliction play is all about keeping the strongest DoTs possible, and any time you have movement and your procs aren't up, Fel Flame would simply be a dps loss. Blizzard and GC saw that fact (Thankfully) and fixed it.
    Huh? I'm the one saying even the original KJC nerfs wouldn't break the class and getting a lot of hate for disagreeing with the echo chamber.

    Even so, I think I was amongst the first to suggest making a Glyph to switch it off for Affliction, as it would be helpful to those who play to that level (pro-tip, the overwhelming majority of 'locks don't even know about it, we here are a very fringe of the community being so well informed) but detrimental to Demo/Destro and PvP to remove it altogether.

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    No, there must be some limitation to the talent, also in order to keep the other talents interesting. The way they have it mind now is more then we could have possibly hoped for allready.
    Why does there need to be a limitation, what's wrong with casting while moving, it was an awesome talent. Hunters are ranged and can attack and move no big whoop.
    If they want to keep other talents more interesting, the logical thing to do is ... well, ......to Make Them more interesting....not to ruin a great talent

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    Why does there need to be a limitation, what's wrong with casting while moving, it was an awesome talent. Hunters are ranged and can attack and move no big whoop.
    If they want to keep other talents more interesting, the logical thing to do is ... well, ......to Make Them more interesting....not to ruin a great talent
    They also said time and again they're concerned about Hunters moving, Hunters themselves are concerned about their moving. Just because one class has, does not mean another should in any case.

  14. #834
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They also said time and again they're concerned about Hunters moving, Hunters themselves are concerned about their moving. Just because one class has, does not mean another should in any case.
    true, I often hear Hunters complaining that they are just too mobile

  15. #835
    At this point, I accept KJC for what it is. I still would like to see Seed of Corruption addressed. Hellfire has movement baked in. Immo Aura and Rain of Fire are both passive channels. FnB Incinerate falls under KJC while FnB Immolate doesn't.

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiekyerbooty View Post
    true, I often hear Hunters complaining that they are just too mobile
    Yeah, they QQ that their DPS sucks because they're balanced around not being impeded by movement.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 10:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanatik View Post
    At this point, I accept KJC for what it is. I still would like to see Seed of Corruption addressed. Hellfire has movement baked in. Immo Aura and Rain of Fire are both passive channels. FnB Incinerate falls under KJC while FnB Immolate doesn't.
    Yeah, Hellfire it's kinda necessary, melee range and all. What about all those passive ticking Corruptions?

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Hmm so we get Spellpower, presumably from taking damage? I hope they close the loopholes on that one so it doesn't promote standing in poo, otherwise this might actually be a pretty good solution. Easily tuneable too, if it's too strong, or too weak.

    Sapperwix said there might be another PTR push tomorrow or early next week, so let's hope they get it in that biuld so we can check it out.
    Remember, Vengeance is being reworked next patch to only stack from unavoidable AoE damage and anything single target. In other words, no more Vengeance from void zones. I'd assume AV would see the same treatment.

  18. #838
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Yeah, they QQ that their DPS sucks because they're balanced around not being impeded by movement.
    I've not heard any Hunters make this argument, so I decided to go right to the source and see what they think

    Just made the thread so no replies yet, but hopefully we'll see
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  19. #839
    It seems to me that the KJC change is a very reasonable compromise, but I think Drain Soul should be added to it, so should SF - they serve the same basic functions as MG and SB, respectively, so there's no reason not to.

    AV being a vengeance-like mechanic is a fairly interesting idea, with the current changes to Fel Flame it might be worthwhile.

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by Rurts View Post
    It seems to me that the KJC change is a very reasonable compromise, but I think Drain Soul should be added to it, so should SF - they serve the same basic functions as MG and SB, respectively, so there's no reason not to.

    AV being a vengeance-like mechanic is a fairly interesting idea, with the current changes to Fel Flame it might be worthwhile.
    I agree about SF and DS
    As affliction though, If FelFlame doesn't extend dots and it doesn't snapshot procs, when would an aff lock ever use it ?

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