5.4 KJC changes.

[Chrispotter]

The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.

I think that second paragraph, the one you didn't get to will make a difference. Mobility in this game is meant to be an issue for casters, they're not going to hand out more. Haunt, Life Tap and DoTs while moving, as well as Fel Flame should be plenty adequate.

The problem with fel flame is that it refreshes your dot damage values... most of the time it will end up being better to not cast anything than to cast a fel flame =/

[Gorthan]

The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.

I think that second paragraph, the one you didn't get to will make a difference. Mobility in this game is meant to be an issue for casters, they're not going to hand out more. Haunt, Life Tap and DoTs while moving, as well as Fel Flame should be plenty adequate.

No.

I would rather prefer to have fillers castable while moving, keeping big dps "cd" (haunt, cb) not castable while moving. I think it's better both for pve and pvp, others have already stated the reasons.
Think about this: "KJ removed from the game. MF, Incinerate, SB castable while moving (maybe ds and sf too. maybe). Cataclysm added. You can now transform into a beautiful unicorn and dance with garrosh". I bet no one will complain about this (specially about the unicorn part).

[sugarfree]

The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.

I think that second paragraph, the one you didn't get to will make a difference. Mobility in this game is meant to be an issue for casters, they're not going to hand out more. Haunt, Life Tap and DoTs while moving, as well as Fel Flame should be plenty adequate.

This is a nightmare for PvP. Do you know how important mobility is to channeling MG or getting off a Chaos Bolt?

Because even with the current KJC, warlocks still spend 80-90% of their time on a warrior or dk's face. It was the only thing that actually gave distance aside from Seduction/Mesmerize which forces locks to not get Sacrifice. This is death to pvping locks.

So 99% of Affliction locks take this talent...so the only reason is to nerf it? Typical stupidity. AV is useless in PvP and Affliction suffers from the channeling mechanic and unlimited interrupts to be ever viable in PvP. There are solid ISSUES why locks get it, and it's not KJC itself.

They are so deluded in their design, it is pissing me off.

[evertonbelmontt]

Someone has to tell these sons of a bitches that this is no excuse at all.

Considering PVE: WHY WHY WHY WHY WHYYYYYYYYYY would an affliction warlock stick with manoroths fury?
And even worse, Archimonde's?

It's not that 99% felt that it's too good, the other's is totally useless as affliction.

From a PVP standpoint, maybe Archimonde's could be usefull, but then you could say that KJC is better. But again, it doesn't matter, who chose it to be this way was blizzard for fucking affliction PVP.

[Jessicka]

The problem with fel flame is that it refreshes your dot damage values... most of the time it will end up being better to not cast anything than to cast a fel flame =/

This oft stated point neglects the fact that as often as not, refreshing will bump rather than diminish how hard your DoTs are hitting. Most of the time though, it makes no difference at all.

No.

I would rather prefer to have fillers castable while moving, keeping big dps "cd" (haunt, cb) not castable while moving. I think it's better both for pve and pvp, others have already stated the reasons.
Think about this: "KJ removed from the game. MF, Incinerate, SB castable while moving (maybe ds and sf too. maybe). Cataclysm added. You can now transform into a beautiful unicorn and dance with garrosh". I bet no one will complain about this (specially about the unicorn part).

No one would complain because it's a relative power increase.

This is a nightmare for PvP. Do you know how important mobility is to channeling MG or getting off a Chaos Bolt?

Because even with the current KJC, warlocks still spend 80-90% of their time on a warrior or dk's face. It was the only thing that actually gave distance aside from Seduction/Mesmerize which forces locks to not get Sacrifice. This is death to pvping locks.

So 99% of Affliction locks take this talent...so the only reason is to nerf it? Typical stupidity. AV is useless in PvP and Affliction suffers from the channeling mechanic and unlimited interrupts to be ever viable in PvP. There are solid ISSUES why locks get it, and it's not KJC itself.

They are so deluded in their design, it is pissing me off.

The irony being that I'm seeing a lot of the same posters who were advocating Drain Life as a filler over Shadow Bolt are now complaining about now having a channelled filler. (I get we had Nightfall procs then for instant Shadow Bolts for a bit of mobility; that would be a better than KJC imho).

[EvreliaGaming]

This oft stated point neglects the fact that as often as not, refreshing will bump rather than diminish how hard your DoTs are hitting. Most of the time though, it makes no difference at all.

That logic doesn't really work, unless you're already not paying attention to your DoTs and min/maxing them.

[Lionor]

The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.

I think that second paragraph, the one you didn't get to will make a difference. Mobility in this game is meant to be an issue for casters, they're not going to hand out more. Haunt, Life Tap and DoTs while moving, as well as Fel Flame should be plenty adequate.

Come on, I know you dislike KJC (stated in your posts) but reading this you can't simply agree.

Do you REALLY think casting haunt on the move is a good option? Speding a shard on a haunt while moving i.e. No MG afterwards is good? You are happy with that direction?

Because I read this and I didn't have enough palms to cover my face in... It was just WTF!

As for your fel flame advocating now with the RPPM procs going off in random moments its gonna feel like a russian roulette (should I fel flame or not?) making affliction primarily really awkward and clunky. No its not gonna be about skill (because having an aura/dot power addon is not skill) it's just gonna be clunky!

Mechanics-wise this step is gonna bring us at a worst point that we were at the end of Cata. Worst because pre-MoP we were not designed around mobility. For MoP we were, and now we are loosing it. The sooner warlocks realise this the sooner we can at least demand to push this change to next expansion along with the appropriate redesign of the class.

Otherwise GZ for your wasted shards on haunts while moving!

[Polarthief]

Joke's on them, we don't have an ability called Kil'jaden's Cunning!

In all seriousness I could have sworn they just said they were fine with casters casting on the move....

If they were, why are Arcane, Frost (without procs), Shadow, and Boomkin being left out?

[Grab]

AsI hate Affli and all the Affli whorelocks I really like the KJC nerf. Finally a kick in the ass

Infracted

[evertonbelmontt]

@Jessicka

How can you defend this?

Do you seriously think this will do any good for affliction or destro? "Mid" expansion?
Please, tell us why you think this change can benefit warlock, old and new players.

UNLESS they rework affliction and totally change the playstyle (chanelling/moving while casting, buffing dots), afflic is doomed on pvp and broken on pve. Broken because no one will chose it over demo anymore. Or destro, maybe. Doomed because affliction have no means to survive PVP outside smart play/mobility.

No one has any garanties that they will rework afflic for good if this change goes live. If you THINK this is what's gonna happen ... pity.
And even if they do, people (not all) don't care it's a dps gain, they only really care about being a fun way to play.

We have seen more than once, for the sake of "balance", blizzard saying that not every spec can be good enough. They WON'T work to fix their mistake, and afflic will end up like a dead specialization.
You're just having too much faith. Faith is not something you can count on in this kind of changes.
Your very quote from the EU forums says that. Blizzard is NOT aware of why KJC was good to affliction (see my other post) and they can't see why it's good (fun) for the players.

[Jessicka]

Come on, I know you dislike KJC (stated in your posts) but reading this you can't simply agree.

Do you REALLY think casting haunt on the move is a good option? Speding a shard on a haunt while moving i.e. No MG afterwards is good? You are happy with that direction?

Because I read this and I didn't have enough palms to cover my face in... It was just WTF!

As for your fel flame advocating now with the RPPM procs going off in random moments its gonna feel like a russian roulette (should I fel flame or not?) making affliction primarily really awkward and clunky. No its not gonna be about skill (because having an aura/dot power addon is not skill) it's just gonna be clunky!

Mechanics-wise this step is gonna bring us at a worst point that we were at the end of Cata. Worst because pre-MoP we were not designed around mobility. For MoP we were, and now we are loosing it. The sooner warlocks realise this the sooner we can at least demand to push this change to next expansion along with the appropriate redesign of the class.

Otherwise GZ for your wasted shards on haunts while moving!

Surely you'd be anticipating movement better and not wasting your Haunt movement, by continuing to move after finishing the cast?

That logic doesn't really work, unless you're already not paying attention to your DoTs and min/maxing them.

The logic works fine, moving in most other classes/specs by 'stutter stepping' at the tail end of a cast, or during instants reduces subtantially the need and time spent moving outside of when those times are available. I get you'll get phases like in Durumu, Jin'rokh Heroic or Vizier when your DPS will bomb as you dodge shit. That's an intended part of the encounter design though, and it's those phases where it's much harder to manage your DoTs in that way because your eyes are on dodging shit and not AffDots.

[Lordpete]

This is a nerf for PVP mostly. Warlock is the best overall class right now ( Pvp and pve wise )

[Aleksej89]

If you don't see why a talent that passively gives permanent casting on the move is Overpowered, then you have really lost your mind.

Aside from blizzard saying multiple times that instant spells and "cast on the move" spells are way too numerous and that they want to greatly tone them down, Warlocks are CASTERS - one of the defining things about casters is that you stand and cast your spells...
Sure there can be a few instant spells or temporary run-&-cast abilities - but being able to cast ALL spells while moving at a slightly reduced speed is ridiculously OP.

Not only did it make Warlocks pretty much the kings of mobile DPS in PvE, it's downsides are even less noticeable in PvP where stronger snare effects are almost guaranteed to already be on you and overwrite KJC's snare - which sums up to you getting free casting on the move.
In short, an obviously OP passive talent that was definitely going to get nerfed - and i am glad it did before Blizz decided to butcher our DPS just because we all pick KJC and run around like madmen...

[evertonbelmontt]

If you don't see why a talent that passively gives permanent casting on the move is Overpowered, then you have really lost your mind.


[...]like madmen*...

Some of you already are.

Talent per si is not overpowered. You can have permanent casting on the move and it's TOTALLY fine, as they said before, and BUFFED it because, from what they said: "no one was taking it when it had a cast penalty". That was because 50% less damage was overkill.
KJC don't need to go, casting on move is fun. Maybe not all casting.
Just rebalance it again for 20%~25% less damage and we can be on par with everyone else (except hunters).

They aren't doing this because it's overpowered or messing with balance. They're doing this because it doesn't fill their vision of what is "good to the game".
Players will not be happy about this and eventually they'll get to it and just leave/reroll.

EDIT: before someone asks how they could be fine with KJC before and suddenly now it becomes a problem: they think KJC is too good because 99% of afflocks were taking it. Aparently this ain't good for the game, when one good talent is better than two ****** talent.

[Jessicka]

Some of you already are.

Talent per si is not overpowered. You can have permanent casting on the move and it's TOTALLY fine, as they said before, and BUFFED it because, from what they said: "no one was taking it when it had a cast penalty". That was because 50% less damage was overkill.
KJC don't need to go, casting on move is fun. Maybe not all casting.
Just rebalance it again for 20%~25% less damage and we can be on par with everyone else (except hunters).

They aren't doing this because it's overpowered or messing with balance. They're doing this because it doesn't fill their vision of what is "good to the game".
Players will not be happy about this and eventually they'll get to it and just leave/reroll.

No one took it in it's previous incarnation because traditional movement combined with Fel Flame was better. Reverting to the damage nerf would just put us right back in that same situation. They tried to give us a tool for something for which we already had a tool, and it's obvious players are just going to pick which of those tools is better for the job. That's why it needs changing, to remove that conflict.

[Gorthan]

No one took it in it's previous incarnation because traditional movement combined with Fel Flame was better. Reverting to the damage nerf would just put us right back in that same situation. They tried to give us a tool for something for which we already had a tool, and it's obvious players are just going to pick which of those tools is better for the job. That's why it needs changing, to remove that conflict.

No, again. Fel Flame is something completely different from casting while moving. Maybe it was too bad before and is too good right now but removing it from the game (as they are doing now) it's not the solution (kj, not ff).

For me it ain't even a matter of fel flame vs kj or dps nerf. It's about fun. Casting while moving is so damn funny and is the best stuff made in this expansion. I would rather see it given to all the classes than removed from the game.

[Grizelda]

Holinka saying thats not the direction he want's the game to go. LOL.

Priceless.

1. Judging by the haphazard pvp changes thrown out every other week to stats and gear HE HAS NO FUCKING CLUE WHERE HE WANTS THE GAME TO GO.

2. We're already there. The game has gone there. Be brave and move forward. Not cowardly. Turret casting is dead. L2 move or get run over.

[Deleted]

The reason for this change is that Kil'Jaeden's Cunning just felt too good and over 99% of Affliction Warlocks were taking it. We weren't happy with the snare effect, but when it had a cast time debuff instead, no one used it. Changing it to just be a snare effect ended up making the talent too good. We have a long PTR cycle ahead, there is plenty of time to tinker with it, and Warlocks will be balanced around this.

It’s worth noting that the new Kil'Jaeden's Cunning is off of the global cooldown and can be cast while another spell cast is already in progress. For the Affliction Warlocks worried about this change; one recent change on the 5.4 PTR is that Haunt is now castable while moving.

I think that second paragraph, the one you didn't get to will make a difference. Mobility in this game is meant to be an issue for casters, they're not going to hand out more. Haunt, Life Tap and DoTs while moving, as well as Fel Flame should be plenty adequate.

Few posts below the bluepost someone said that :

"I tried Haunt on the move on ptr,but since its a resource based spell,I ended up doing nothing but moving around and wait for a nightfall proc"

So no.

[Jessicka]

No, again. Fel Flame is something completely different from casting while moving. Maybe it was too bad before and is too good right now but removing it from the game (as they are doing now) it's not the solution (kj, not ff).

For me it ain't even a matter of fel flame vs kj or dps nerf. It's about fun. Casting while moving is so damn funny and is the best stuff made in this expansion. I would rather see it given to all the classes than removed from the game.

I believe if KJC were nerfed to be inferior to Fel Flame for mobility, that players wouldn't keep it because it was "fun". I don't see many who have kept Sacrifice because it was, as so many reported "fun".

[Deleted]

Why dont they just make it as they did for Elemental shamans then, Elemental got their filler spell on the move as baseline, do the same for affliction and it shouldn't be that bad imo. We would still have to stop to cast Haunt, just like elemental shamans has to do with Elemental Blast.

Also, if this change stays, for Affliction it will more often then not be a dps increase to NOT DO ANYTHING over casting fel flame wile moving (if your on high mana). Is that where blizzard wants us to be?