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  1. #481
    I have been slacking on ptr last few weeks, Now i noticed this glyph for shrooms is http://www.wowhead.com/item=104102

    I tried it on ptr, but i didnt notice any difference with or without the glyph, is it not functioning yet?

  2. #482
    That is only for restoration druids, as the healing shrooms are targeted on players.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingblaze View Post
    I have been slacking on ptr last few weeks, Now i noticed this glyph for shrooms is http://www.wowhead.com/item=104102

    I tried it on ptr, but i didnt notice any difference with or without the glyph, is it not functioning yet?
    When you check on the PTR, it says "Restoration" on the glyph.

  4. #484
    I agree with one of the previous posters that hotw on-use function should be made baseline for all druids, with a passive talent taking it's place. There's no reason I see not to make the duration 30 sec from 45 either, but I'm not going to beg for nerfs here after recently taking a big hit.

    Also while reading the front page this morning I noticed again the idea of reducing the number of abilities for classes. At first I didn't think there was a good one to eliminate. I think druids have too many spells that do the same thing - root the target. Nature's grasp, entangling roots, and force of nature. Personally, I think the cast root should be removed, but the problem becomes how to make your solarbeam work without speccing force of nature or vortex. Another great idea is eliminating faerie fire all together. Now that it has a 20 second duration, a dot is typically more effective at preventing stealth. Balance druids should bring CoE anyway, in the form of the old earth and moon - the same way it was applied before (mushroom detonate, starfire+wrath casts). Ferals should have sunder built into another spell such as mangle.

    Unfortunately for a lot of these posts, including my own I doubt the change will come at patch, and rather at expansion. I think most of the mechanical changes are done for 5.4 and our 4 set is probably locked in place.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    I agree with one of the previous posters that hotw on-use function should be made baseline for all druids, with a passive talent taking it's place. There's no reason I see not to make the duration 30 sec from 45 either, but I'm not going to beg for nerfs here after recently taking a big hit.

    Also while reading the front page this morning I noticed again the idea of reducing the number of abilities for classes. At first I didn't think there was a good one to eliminate. I think druids have too many spells that do the same thing - root the target. Nature's grasp, entangling roots, and force of nature. Personally, I think the cast root should be removed, but the problem becomes how to make your solarbeam work without speccing force of nature or vortex. Another great idea is eliminating faerie fire all together. Now that it has a 20 second duration, a dot is typically more effective at preventing stealth. Balance druids should bring CoE anyway, in the form of the old earth and moon - the same way it was applied before (mushroom detonate, starfire+wrath casts). Ferals should have sunder built into another spell such as mangle.

    Unfortunately for a lot of these posts, including my own I doubt the change will come at patch, and rather at expansion. I think most of the mechanical changes are done for 5.4 and our 4 set is probably locked in place.
    I hope they do another one of those "which spells do you not use" threads for all the classes/specs. But I'd really like to see the CC spells reduced per spec. Definitely a strong argument for removing "similar" spells, but a little trickier when it comes to CC from talents/specs. Personally, I want to see CC reduced in massive waves of removal and/or reallocating. For example, Feral and Guardian get Bash, Resto gets Entangling Roots, and Balance gets Cyclone. Arcane Mage gets Polymorph, Fire/Frost gets Deep Freeze (fire gets DF for Shatter purposes.) Demo/Aff get Fear, Destro gets Charm.

    ^ The entire idea is to reduce CC in PvP, but at the same time, remove a lot of spells that do the same thing. In PVE, you really don't need 2 long-duration CCs. Also, the idea/examples written aren't really thought out completely, but just the roots of a larger network.

  6. #486
    I dont mind the Hotw talent, although 95% of the time i just use the passive, the on use effect is a raid saver, especially in heroic raiding. Now should non resto spec'd druids be able to throw out 7 million tranq's which are casted in 4 seconds? There's an area i completely think is wrong.

    I would love to see DoC reworked properly for balance so that it isnt about 'throw a heal to gain a buff' i would love to see it reworked to give a change up to our rotation, whilst still being a dps rotation fully.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingblaze View Post
    I dont mind the Hotw talent, although 95% of the time i just use the passive, the on use effect is a raid saver, especially in heroic raiding. Now should non resto spec'd druids be able to throw out 7 million tranq's which are casted in 4 seconds? There's an area i completely think is wrong.
    Not really? It's the only way ferals and guardians get a raid cd and they have to spec for it. Like I said the duration might be a bit too long but w/e. This talent really allows you to be a true hybrid - idk the right words to describe it exactly, but the ability to be somewhat useful as another role for a short period of time is something I think should be iconic to the druid class, that is being/doing whatever you want (in combat) if the situation arises. Anyway, the talent is extremely strong, literally everyone takes it for pvp and most specs wouldn't be caught without it for progress raids. Slightly weaker form of on-use portion should go baseline.

    For DoC it's been suggested before just to put it into rejuv. If it stays with HT it needs to be stronger than a 10% eclipse dmg buff. I think vigil is fine, but just barely b/c of the healing it provides.

  8. #488
    Its all opinion mate, everyone can feel how they want. I personally dont think every spec needs a raid CD these days, and regarding the hybrid thing, no we will never feel as hybrid as we did when we had the old talent trees.

    Your also not going to cast tranq as a guardian when your currently tanking, so as far as a spec raid CD i think its a bad design.

    Go back the raiding a few expansions ago, raid cooldowns were sparse and yet it was still mega fun and enjoyable, rather than the constant string of CD's we have these days which just allows blizz to put more damage into fights.

    But as i said, just my 2 cents, this game has been heading towards shorter and shorter CD's and more and more raid CD's for a while now.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Slightly weaker form of on-use portion should go baseline.
    Would have to be considerably weaker if it was just made baseline, and if that happens it kills the whole point of the talent. I'd much rather do the job of a normal healer for a short period of time when damage is intense than heal for slightly more 100% of the time (when I'm going to be DPSing for much of this time anyway) and not be able to help as much during the intense damage phases.

  10. #490
    My problem with hotw is also that it doesnt actually let you play any other role for 45 secs. As a moonkin you can push good healing with it, but try tanking a heroic boss or playing cat, its just pointless. There are minor situations where you can go kitty and push a little more dps, but your still classed as a range and have all the 'range' targeting mechanics on you so you cant really get close to the boss on alot of fights. And tanking is just bad without survival instincs.

    For questing and pvp, hotw is great for all aspects, but for raiding its limited from my experience.

    But as i said i would prefer DoC to actually be thought through by blizzard for pve when they next redesign it. It got a change for 5.4 and its still terrible. The whole point of the new talent system was blizz said they didnt want cookie cutter builds where you never change talents, but they ruined NV for the majority of fights, and doc is terrible. So what are we left with, just a passive bonus for dps. Its boring if you ask me, i would much perfer NV if they buffed it. Look at Tier 4, thats much better with inc and FoN being quite competitive with each other.

  11. #491
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingblaze View Post
    My problem with hotw is also that it doesnt actually let you play any other role for 45 secs. As a moonkin you can push good healing with it, but try tanking a heroic boss or playing cat, its just pointless. There are minor situations where you can go kitty and push a little more dps, but your still classed as a range and have all the 'range' targeting mechanics on you so you cant really get close to the boss on alot of fights. And tanking is just bad without survival instincs.
    It definitely lets you fill the role of a healer, even with the limited spells available to us. It lets you fill the role of melee DPS, obviously you have to play smart and not attempt to fill that role if Thunderstruck is coming, but you can still the fill the role if you want (such as magic reflect mobs). It is least important for Feral to Balance and Balance to Feral to feel worthwhile because your major role is still DPSing. It's way more imporant to make you feel like you can actually heal for a worthwhile amount while Guardian specced or DPS for a decent amount while Resto specced, etc etc. As far as tanking, you may not be able to live through Lei Shen's Fusion Slashes but you'll be able to survive normal melees. I agree though adding SI when activating HotW would make sense.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Would have to be considerably weaker if it was just made baseline, and if that happens it kills the whole point of the talent. I'd much rather do the job of a normal healer for a short period of time when damage is intense than heal for slightly more 100% of the time (when I'm going to be DPSing for much of this time anyway) and not be able to help as much during the intense damage phases.
    Well making the on-use baseline wasn't the only idea. The other talents would have to be considerably stronger than they are atm to compare with HoTW to keep that tier with reasonable choices.

    I'm actually really confused why we didn't continue to see DoC changed. I thought it was made really clear that it's not going to work out.

    Also you're wrong with your latest post. HotW damage as cat (from balance druid) is half or less than what you would do as a boomkin and feral's wrathing was nerfed pretty heavily as well. It's really not even worth the shift form cost unless you can literally do 0 damage from ranged, which has never been the case.
    Last edited by Aboubacar; 2013-07-29 at 10:23 PM.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    I'm actually really confused why we didn't continue to see DoC changed. I thought it was made really clear that it's not going to work out.
    I'm fairly sure Blizzard gave up on it. Two good choices is fair enough, in my opinion, and DOC could be reworked in 6.0 (it better be). Personally, if HT granted 40 or 50 Eclipse energy, while not in Eclipse, it would be much better. I feel like the primary issue with DOC is the filler HT...it just ruins the whole Eclipse system. It doesn't interact with Eclipse...so it's just a hindrance to gain literally 3200 Mastery for the next Eclipse. It's like...a nerf to gain a buff...which is fine, but this buff doesn't compensate for damage loss.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    It definitely lets you fill the role of a healer, even with the limited spells available to us. It lets you fill the role of melee DPS, obviously you have to play smart and not attempt to fill that role if Thunderstruck is coming, but you can still the fill the role if you want (such as magic reflect mobs). It is least important for Feral to Balance and Balance to Feral to feel worthwhile because your major role is still DPSing. It's way more imporant to make you feel like you can actually heal for a worthwhile amount while Guardian specced or DPS for a decent amount while Resto specced, etc etc. As far as tanking, you may not be able to live through Lei Shen's Fusion Slashes but you'll be able to survive normal melees. I agree though adding SI when activating HotW would make sense.
    Whilst I can mostly agree with what you've written above, you also have to bear in mind that HotW has been buffed for Resto to also provide a huge bonus to their main role when activated. This, to me, seems both a little unfair and contradictory on Blizzard's part - they can do excellent dps for 45s and also get a big buff to their main role, healing. However, Mooncatting still sucks, not particularly because of damage, but because of Energy constraints. It'd be nice to see Energy costs for the non-Feral activated portion reduced by 50% (a la Berserk). It would go a long way to making it decent again (and I really miss the playstyle of Mooncat, I don't want the stupidly big numbers to come back again) and make it not such a huge dps loss as it is currently. Like many others have said, I find the current incarnation of HotW as Balance extremely bland and boring, because in most raid fights - even progression ones - it gets used for about 8-10s of its 45s duration, to channel Tranq, throw out a NS+HT, maybe a Rejuvenation or two. If that's really their intent for Balance, could we get a 50% duration and c/d reduction on it?

    I feel that my suggestion for Mooncatting could restore the fun of the playstyle without making it grossly overpowered. I doubt the Int->Agi conversion would need to be changed at all.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Also you're wrong with your latest post. HotW damage as cat (from balance druid) is half or less than what you would do as a boomkin and feral's wrathing was nerfed pretty heavily as well. It's really not even worth the shift form cost unless you can literally do 0 damage from ranged, which has never been the case.
    This is what i was referring to, its a total loss to go cat form as a moonkin with hotw and dps, there are VERY VERY minor occasions its better, like twins hc when all adds are revealed, you go cat, 2 swipes, rake and back to moonkin to aoe more, it also requires macro'd weapon swaps in alot of occasions to really make it work which is a pain.

    I totally disagree with what stommped wrote it feeling worthwhile for cats being able to wrath and moonkins able to cat, go try it, its terrible. Also yes HOTW should grant the spell Survival Instincts whilst active and bear form is used, i really dont see why this isnt done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    However, Mooncatting still sucks, not particularly because of damage, but because of Energy constraints. It'd be nice to see Energy costs for the non-Feral activated portion reduced by 50% (a la Berserk). It would go a long way to making it decent again (and I really miss the playstyle of Mooncat, I don't want the stupidly big numbers to come back again) and make it not such a huge dps loss as it is currently.
    Something like this should be done indeed. It doesnt make sense that when you use it to heal there is no mana useage, use it to wrath there is no mana usage, but when you go cat or bear energy and rage regen is terrible and so its unviable. If they did change it to give beserk effect, it would have to be pve only, and we all know how blizzard cba to make separate effects in pve and pvp.

    Its just a tranq talent really, i agree with what Mystikal said also, i have my HOTW macro'd to my tranq, its pretty much never used without tranq, and then i go back to dpsing, unless raid is wiping and you could save them for 45 to kill boss, then the fulfilling a healer role for 45 is silly, because if your raid actually needs that much additional healing then either your healers arent good enough or you need to take an additional healer.

    Its a passive boring talent in real pve, and is pretty much the same as the old resto tree talent without the use effect, which was 3 points spent purely for the passive gain, which is exactly what blizz wanted to get rid of.

    I just dont understand why we cant see some imagination and testing from blizz, they can even throw out a new talent on PTR and if it doesnt work out then revert it, but nothing seems to be tried for us.

  16. #496
    You can always go HotW bear form and tank lei shen in phase 3, listen too fountaiins teachings!

  17. #497
    SI should be for all specs anyway useable in all forms. IDK how an owl has less instinct to survive than say a cat, but the loss of 15% DR really calls for this.

    maybe 10-20% less damage as HoTW cat would be fine but its sooo much less than that right now.

    Also don't think it's the best idea to macro heart to tranq, For example on Qon it would be better to pop it rejuv as many squishier raid members as possible then tranq the first smash. I think the healing from hotw rejuvs and possibly some HT thrown on someone getting bombed, is letting you fufill the roll of a healer far better than the other roles. It's not realistic to get more abilities in your toolkit without actually being specced into that role either. It also adds to that ridiculous "button bloat" concept Blizzard has. They want to remove more of our abilities, not give more.

    Also I'd just like to point out and question how the following is balanced:
    Druids Barkskin on 1minute CD lasting 10 seconds for 20% DR - leather armor user
    shadow priest fade glyph 30 second CD lasting 10 seconds 10% DR - Clother armor user
    DPS shamans Shamanistic rage 1minute CD lasting 15 seconds for 30% DR - wears mail AND a shield can also spec into another 40% DR on top of that.

    What I poorly lined out above is why I don't understand why there hasn't been a barskin buff or some other defensive buff following the loss of the 15% passive DR. That or sham wall needs to be nerfed b/c having that kind of defensive's available makes no sense. Their active mitigation just randomly way stronger than other dps.

  18. #498
    There's also glyph of lightning shield for dps shamans, just to add some passive mitigation too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...

    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"

  19. #499
    Welp, looks like they fixed AC. Tiny quality of life improvement. About time.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikeyeia View Post
    Welp, looks like they fixed AC. Tiny quality of life improvement. About time.
    But we are using the Solar opener now :<

    Maybe next expansion...

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