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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    It's all speculation, but Starfall "casts" the stars every second, which makes it a possibility. (PTR testing required, ofc.)
    Which is pretty much my point. We can't have a sensible discussion about it when we don't have the slightest clue what it does.

  2. #42
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    The 4pc looks really stupid. It's blizzard basically saying, 'we don't want balance druids using incarnation'. And on top of that, it doesn't really bring any real benefit, dps wise.

  3. #43
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whyevernot View Post
    The 4pc looks really stupid. It's blizzard basically saying, 'we don't want balance druids using incarnation'. And on top of that, it doesn't really bring any real benefit, dps wise.
    Either they need to buff the 3sec portion substantially so we can use CA twice as often (perhaps with NV?) or change it. Anything inbetween will be as pointless as it is right now.

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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which is pretty much my point. We can't have a sensible discussion about it when we don't have the slightest clue what it does.
    Here's a thought for you then, because Blizzard's wording tends to be funky: Arcane/Nature spells will trigger this. Does this mean Faerie Fire/Faerie Swarm will proc the 2pc? I doubt it myself, but all of this discussion is based on speculation, not sure how you'd any "sensible" discussion based on datamined information.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    Here's a thought for you then, because Blizzard's wording tends to be funky: Arcane/Nature spells will trigger this. Does this mean Faerie Fire/Faerie Swarm will proc the 2pc? I doubt it myself, but all of this discussion is based on speculation, not sure how you'd any "sensible" discussion based on datamined information.
    Yes. That's why i said we can't have a sensible discussion.

  6. #46
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    To be honest, it doesn't matter what procs it. The overall damage contribution will be brought in-line with most other 2-piece bonuses, which is around 2-4% of total damage. If it's grossly overpowered, you can be certain it'll be nerfed.

    Updated the OP to show NS just baseline for Resto. Also just to clarify: FoN is a tooltip change, not a buff. That buff is already apparent, so there's no difference between FoN now and FoN in 5.4.

    @Cyous: not sure of your reasoning with 4-piece interaction with talents. The only talent that has issues like you said is Incarnation because of waiting (it's akin to Mage T14 4-piece shortening the CD of Combustion), so SotF and FoN should have pretty much no interaction. Therefore, the 4-piece should still be a DPS increase when taking those talents.

    Also, where did your thread go? o.o

  7. #47
    Got onto the PTR to test a couple things:

    2pc Tier set is currently complete garbage and does 700-800 damage per hit. I imagine it will be buffed later. Does NOT trigger from starfall or hurricane/astral. It DOES trigger twice if you cast moon/sunfire during celestial alignment.

    SOTF will take you all the way to the next eclipse instead of stopping at "neutral". So, if you hit it at the beginning of a solar, you'll immediately move all the way back to 100 lunar.
    Last edited by Lybydose; 2013-06-13 at 06:15 AM.

  8. #48
    As far as pvp goes, having the default 65% resilience AND the 15% damage reduction (spriests and moonkins) is definitely too much.

    Even the hunter's iron hawk (15% less damage) got nerfed to 10%, although i wished it was removed as well.

    I do not understand the mana cost increases.... why would Moonkins even care? In any non-hurricane situation we got infinite mana, just like every other caster DPS...

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lybydose View Post
    Got onto the PTR to test a couple things:

    2pc Tier set is currently complete garbage and does 700-800 damage per hit. I imagine it will be buffed later. Does NOT trigger from starfall or hurricane/astral. It DOES trigger twice if you cast moon/sunfire during celestial alignment.

    SOTF will take you all the way to the next eclipse instead of stopping at "neutral". So, if you hit it at the beginning of a solar, you'll immediately move all the way back to 100 lunar.
    2pc does also proc both stars when you cast starsurge which probably makes it in line with 2%-4% increase. Jk its awful.

    ^25million dmg on a dummy starbolt did 50k and Sunbolt did 38.5k total dmg!

    As for SoTF I got a proc about 90% of the time going from Lunar -> Solar.. It lasts for 30seconds so you can hold it to do Lunar - > Solar Rotation then put Sunfire up and Astral Com. back to lunar instantly for more Starfalls.

    If SoTF stays this way it is way better than incarnation and trees when you have 4pc T16. Probably looking at like 80-85% uptime with Starfall.
    Last edited by Kilma; 2013-06-13 at 07:11 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    @Cyous: not sure of your reasoning with 4-piece interaction with talents. The only talent that has issues like you said is Incarnation because of waiting (it's akin to Mage T14 4-piece shortening the CD of Combustion), so SotF and FoN should have pretty much no interaction. Therefore, the 4-piece should still be a DPS increase when taking those talents.

    Also, where did your thread go? o.o
    Incarnation obviously gives no benefit to the 4pc. My point isn't that it's a DPS increase for other talents, but that it really doesn't matter which talents you take. CA cooldown reduction by itself is not a major DPS increase and will only be a substantial increase if there's an encounter with heavy Multi-DOTing -- but not a lot of targets (council fight basically). SOTF will provide the most benefit, but only for single-target, since Multi-DOT'ing actually slows your Eclipse cycling to an extent (the variance of SS procs can make it faster, but a lack thereof is possible as well). I guess what I'm trying to say is that the current 4pc is worthless, and T15-H 2pc + T16 2pc will be very strong until T16-H BiS (you should get your BiS list readied and make a couple "progression-oriented" builds )

    Thread got deleted with the PTR forum purge earlier today. I had sads.
    Last edited by Cyous; 2013-06-13 at 06:52 AM.

  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilma View Post
    If SoTF stays this way it is way better than incarnation and trees when you have 4pc T16. Probably looking at like 80-85% uptime with Starfall.
    This make me both tremendously happy, and a little sad inside. I can hear the raid qq already..

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  12. #52
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    Incarnation obviously gives no benefit to the 4pc. My point isn't that it's a DPS increase for other talents, but that it really doesn't matter which talents you take. CA cooldown reduction by itself is not a major DPS increase and will only be a substantial increase if there's an encounter with heavy Multi-DOTing -- but not a lot of targets (council fight basically). SOTF will provide the most benefit, but only for single-target, since Multi-DOT'ing actually slows your Eclipse cycling to an extent (the variance of SS procs can make it faster, but a lack thereof is possible as well). I guess what I'm trying to say is that the current 4pc is worthless, and T15-H 2pc + T16 2pc will be very strong until T16-H BiS (you should get your BiS list readied and make a couple "progression-oriented" builds )

    Thread got deleted with the PTR forum purge earlier today. I had sads.
    Ouch ):. Poor Cyous' thread!

    And gotcha, that's what I thought you were saying. 4-piece is really poorly designed, I sincerely hope they change it by the end of the PTR.

    I'll start up the T16H BiS list soon once the initial PTR changes are over. Hopefully we get something a little more set-in-stone to work with. The new talent changes are going to change a lot of things for boomies, so let's see what happens.

    It'll also be interesting if there's going to be different builds for different fights, and if that causes changes in gear. Could be a very real possibility with the new SotF.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    As far as pvp goes, having the default 65% resilience AND the 15% damage reduction (spriests and moonkins) is definitely too much.
    Sorry but this just flat out isn't true. Moonkin has very few defensive CDs (barkskin is about it) so the 15% DR helped to equalize that. If there isn't compensation for this nerf Balance will probably be completely unviable in 2s and 3s.

    (Speaking as someone who's around 1700 in 2s and 3s, so take that as how you want.)

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Ouch ):. Poor Cyous' thread!

    And gotcha, that's what I thought you were saying. 4-piece is really poorly designed, I sincerely hope they change it by the end of the PTR.

    I'll start up the T16H BiS list soon once the initial PTR changes are over. Hopefully we get something a little more set-in-stone to work with. The new talent changes are going to change a lot of things for boomies, so let's see what happens.

    It'll also be interesting if there's going to be different builds for different fights, and if that causes changes in gear. Could be a very real possibility with the new SotF.
    I have seen no one yet who thinks that the 4set is well designed, and according to a previous poster the 2set is really lackluster. We discuss this stuff here and on EJ, but how do we get this data to bliz so they can actually see the entire moonkin community discussion?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilma View Post
    2pc does also proc both stars when you cast starsurge which probably makes it in line with 2%-4% increase. Jk its awful.

    ^25million dmg on a dummy starbolt did 50k and Sunbolt did 38.5k total dmg!

    As for SoTF I got a proc about 90% of the time going from Lunar -> Solar.. It lasts for 30seconds so you can hold it to do Lunar - > Solar Rotation then put Sunfire up and Astral Com. back to lunar instantly for more Starfalls.

    If SoTF stays this way it is way better than incarnation and trees when you have 4pc T16. Probably looking at like 80-85% uptime with Starfall.
    You're doing exactly what you were told not to. Forget the specific numbers, check the mechanics. Numbers are just placeholders right now.

    Ignore all numbers for now

  16. #56
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Another thing I think worth mentioning in the OP is HotW pretty much lost one if it's major attractions. Healing done is no longer increased when activated, meaning there would be really no reason to ever actually activate HotW unless you want to go cat form.

  17. #57
    Doc buff for eclipse is activating when not spec'd for it. 15% DMG reduction loss plus losing NS is quite a survivability loss for leveling and soloing/questing. the talent to replace ns is really nice, just doesn't provide the on demand healing ns did. ( its saved my ass more than once).

    in regards to sotf, really nice change and will cut out a lot of lack luster non eclipse damage on single target fights, but seems remotely bad on multi targets cause we will be cycling eclipses at a similar pace.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Another thing I think worth mentioning in the OP is HotW pretty much lost one if it's major attractions. Healing done is no longer increased when activated, meaning there would be really no reason to ever actually activate HotW unless you want to go cat form.
    Heart of the Wild now increases healing done for all specs. Sounds like a boost for resto, not at all any kind of nerf for other specs.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Another thing I think worth mentioning in the OP is HotW pretty much lost one if it's major attractions. Healing done is no longer increased when activated, meaning there would be really no reason to ever actually activate HotW unless you want to go cat form.
    Actually, it still is. It just increases healing done for all specs now so they moved that to the general portion of the tooltip.

  20. #60
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Despite View Post
    I have seen no one yet who thinks that the 4set is well designed, and according to a previous poster the 2set is really lackluster. We discuss this stuff here and on EJ, but how do we get this data to bliz so they can actually see the entire moonkin community discussion?
    Every spell that has "reduces X cd each time you use this spell/etc" Have always been bad, unless they tone it to be op it will be bad.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

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