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  1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    A good moonkin definitely has the potential to top some of the fights in this tier. Yeah, with good RNG Mages are broken, but go watch some of Method's progression kills before people started scumming fights like Council via cleaving.
    I saw mostly warlocks, rogues and mages right at the top except for a few fights, though I agree that the Method owls were right behind them. Definitely top-tier.
    Mew!

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    A good moonkin definitely has the potential to top some of the fights in this tier. Yeah, with good RNG Mages are broken, but go watch some of Method's progression kills before people started scumming fights like Council via cleaving.
    I love how you think adapting to a fight is "scumming" that is just out and out delusional, we had to adapt to the fight to stay competitive.
    Now the fact that blizzard is nerfing us BECAUSE we had to adjust our playstyle for ONE FUCKING FIGHT is actually beyond stupid.

  3. #823
    Has Blizz stated that the nerf is because of Council? In my opinion, the SS procs were silly in Horridon as well.

    But to be honest, the procs are quite silly already with 2 targets but that's just my opinion.

  4. #824
    High Overlord cwowtbang's Avatar
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    I'm wondering how you all feel about these changes in arena/bgs. I barely use wrath and starfire because of the cc's stuns and interrupts. So I'm just gonna be kiting and spot rejuving in 5.4?

  5. #825
    There was a blue post somewhere, saying that there were fights where moonkins were able to go for a majority of the fight without casting starfire / wrath Council main one i can think of

    "Tier 16 Balance Druid Set Bonus Change
    We made this change because, even without the Tier 16 4-piece bonus, we felt that Balance multidotting was too strong. On top of that, with enough mobs available, the Balance rotation was devolving into just Moonfire/Sunfire and spamming Starsurge constantly, to the point of completely ignoring Wrath and Starfire."

    ^ this

    So ontop of hurricane/astral storm being complete shite, shrooms being a total waste of time, multi dotting as our only viable aoe is now not viable. Thanks blizz. Brb rerolling mage as thats the only class that seems to not actually get nerfed. When it does get nerfed all the whining qqing little idiots on the forums just rage enough and the nerf gets reversed. Fairs fair I guess.
    Last edited by Drayarr; 2013-08-18 at 02:13 PM.

  6. #826
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    I love how you think adapting to a fight is "scumming" that is just out and out delusional, we had to adapt to the fight to stay competitive.
    Now the fact that blizzard is nerfing us BECAUSE we had to adjust our playstyle for ONE FUCKING FIGHT is actually beyond stupid.
    What?.....

    I was saying Moonkins were one of the top specs on that fight during progression, but now guilds stack all four bosses and cleave, and so mages pull ahead.

    You sure seem upset. You should relax, buddy.

  7. #827
    High Overlord cwowtbang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    There was a blue post somewhere, saying that there were fights where moonkins were able to go for a majority of the fight without casting starfire / wrath Council main one i can think of

    "Tier 16 Balance Druid Set Bonus Change
    We made this change because, even without the Tier 16 4-piece bonus, we felt that Balance multidotting was too strong. On top of that, with enough mobs available, the Balance rotation was devolving into just Moonfire/Sunfire and spamming Starsurge constantly, to the point of completely ignoring Wrath and Starfire."

    ^ this

    So ontop of hurricane/astral storm being complete shite, shrooms being a total waste of time, multi dotting as our only viable aoe is now not viable. Thanks blizz. Brb rerolling mage as thats the only class that seems to not actually get nerfed. When it does get nerfed all the whining qqing little idiots on the forums just rage enough and the nerf gets reversed. Fairs fair I guess.
    Hey the warlocks did when they turned KJC into a CD. Tier bonuses set aside. I haven't found it favorable to hardcast starfire/wrath at all in arena/bgs without getting interrupted. The cast time is way too long even with the haste buff rolling. Its just not worth it.

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by cwowtbang View Post
    I'm wondering how you all feel about these changes in arena/bgs. I barely use wrath and starfire because of the cc's stuns and interrupts. So I'm just gonna be kiting and spot rejuving in 5.4?
    I'm not saying that it shouldn't be compensated in some ways but they really should get rid of can be cast while moving and some instants in PvP. Maybe compensate with reduced amount of short stuns and other interrupts. They should encourage the use of Wrath and Starfire somehow.

    But with these changes you'll just go kite, dot and hot. Maybe throw some CC if you're not getting tunneled.

  9. #829
    The problem is it seems to me at least they make these changes without actively listening to the balance druid community. We ask / plead for changes and we get nerfs yet the issues that need to be addressed go unchanged. Makes me wonder who it is that actually makes these changes...

  10. #830
    The Patient
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    Starting to think if someone should just create an open forum for boomkins where they can actually discuss proper class mechanics etc. rather than having these silly discussions about wether or not we're viable.

  11. #831
    I am EU so i cant post here, but i read all of this forum that Cyous made on us forums, its a really nice discussion about how we can change our class for the better and make it enjoyable still. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9662276461

    But yeah problem is that if we make a forum anywhere to try to discuss class mechanics and changes you will get pages of disagreements and arguments and people posting useless stuff, unless its moderated harshly where only idea discussions are kept.

    Btw is the build on ptr atm the one with SS proc rate nerf on multi target? I logged last night and it really didnt feel too bad on 4 targets.

  12. #832
    Sunfire 372 ticks - 18.5%
    Moonfire 393 ticks - 18.4%
    Starsurge (34 Shooting Stars procs) 13 casts - 17.6%
    530ilvl with 4pc

    This was on a 2 target fight ( kor kron dark shamans)

    Taken from US forums.

    http://gyazo.com/2c9fbfbfcc94c8063e530255e4a8c88a 8-16 target (AOE)
    Last edited by Cyteriz; 2013-08-18 at 05:03 PM.

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by Alzu View Post
    Has Blizz stated that the nerf is because of Council? In my opinion, the SS procs were silly in Horridon as well.

    But to be honest, the procs are quite silly already with 2 targets but that's just my opinion.
    How exactly is the intended design "silly"? They knew this was coming, it is not like this came out of the blue.

    And how is SS "spam" (I never get to spam SS with ilvl 526 gear... not even during Council) sillier than Starfire base cast time?

    It is their game and they can do whatever they like with it, obviously -but moonkin design is all about getting high crit to use SS more often. Slipping this sort of change, which they want to address as tuning but masks actual mechanics, one week and a half before the PTR is over is so damn discouraging.

  14. #834
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapsgiving View Post
    How exactly is the intended design "silly"? They knew this was coming, it is not like this came out of the blue.

    And how is SS "spam" (I never get to spam SS with ilvl 526 gear... not even during Council) sillier than Starfire base cast time?

    It is their game and they can do whatever they like with it, obviously -but moonkin design is all about getting high crit to use SS more often. Slipping this sort of change, which they want to address as tuning but masks actual mechanics, one week and a half before the PTR is over is so damn discouraging.
    I just said silly as it felt like a nice word to describe the amount we get. I just mean that with my item level (548) I'm getting so many procs I just feel like it's too much. Having ~50% waste because of having to spend globals on dots is not fun in my opinion.

    I'm not sure if 50% waste and pretty much 0 hard casting is intended.

  15. #835
    Quote Originally Posted by Alzu View Post
    I just said silly as it felt like a nice word to describe the amount we get. I just mean that with my item level (548) I'm getting so many procs I just feel like it's too much. Having ~50% waste because of having to spend globals on dots is not fun in my opinion.

    I'm not sure if 50% waste and pretty much 0 hard casting is intended.
    It's their design flaw, Crit + instants have never gone well just look at mages in Wotlk, cata was ok because you couldn't get anywhere near 40% crit but now yah... end of the day they should of just left this change and waited to the expansion to get rid of crit proc instants.

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Alzu View Post
    I just said silly as it felt like a nice word to describe the amount we get. I just mean that with my item level (548) I'm getting so many procs I just feel like it's too much. Having ~50% waste because of having to spend globals on dots is not fun in my opinion.

    I'm not sure if 50% waste and pretty much 0 hard casting is intended.
    While im less geared (546, not horribly undergeared), I feel your pain as mine. But while i think it's appropriate to nerf the SS proc chance, I still think they should address the problem giving us something to go for. Hit/haste are capped almost instantly, mastery is so-so... so they can either buff mastery or change a bit wrath base casting time so we can use haste more, and deviate from the critstack. That's my idea, can't really think of much else tbh.

    Dot like there's no tomorrow.

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by Alzu View Post
    I just said silly as it felt like a nice word to describe the amount we get. I just mean that with my item level (548) I'm getting so many procs I just feel like it's too much. Having ~50% waste because of having to spend globals on dots is not fun in my opinion.

    I'm not sure if 50% waste and pretty much 0 hard casting is intended.
    Probably not intended in the sense of what they envision as the spec's rotation, I agree; but then again, they could see this issue coming from miles ahead -it is not as it if had not happened before with other specs. I also agree that spamming SS is probably not a lot of fun -strings of procs, those are really nice and satisfactory to weave in.

    I did not intend to tackle you, btw -just a bit frustrated as so many posts seem to assume it is a warranted change; which it may be, for the gear levels you mention and this final tier. But the debate is mixing up moonkins of different gear levels and partaking of different aspects of the game that will be severely affected by a change of this nature.

    You really have to admire how GC manages to dispatch moonkin queries without ever mentioning "AoE", btw. The guy's a pro.

  18. #838
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    I am actually worried about the removal of 15%, the more i look and try the fights on ptr, and the more i think about current fights, we really lack a built in cooldown, 20% is just way too weak, and not all 10 mans have a rogue, dk or warlock.

  19. #839
    Looks like we've had 2 passes at damage tuning. Have yet to address most classes' AE spells. CL obviously needs toning down, as well as some of the warlock AE. Hurricane or shrooms still needs more damage to even be close to other classes' aoe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingblaze View Post
    I am EU so i cant post here, but i read all of this forum that Cyous made on us forums, its a really nice discussion about how we can change our class for the better and make it enjoyable still. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9662276461

    But yeah problem is that if we make a forum anywhere to try to discuss class mechanics and changes you will get pages of disagreements and arguments and people posting useless stuff, unless its moderated harshly where only idea discussions are kept.

    Btw is the build on ptr atm the one with SS proc rate nerf on multi target? I logged last night and it really didnt feel too bad on 4 targets.
    I don't agree with, well, any of the ideas in this post. While they aren't exactly bad ideas, it's radical changes to how balance druid works. I don't really have a problem with any of the balance druid mechanics outside of mushrooms, and that's just because the damage is pitiful. The class combat is really smooth, the spells work great, and the eclipse bar is working out very, very well. There's no need for large scale changes to how the spec works.

  20. #840
    Give us casting while moving and add another 15% to our main nukes. Problem solved.

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