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  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    They said all along that with the 4p and higher crit levels, our rotation devolved into SS spam. They want us to play intelligently, deciding when to DOT, when to un/eclipsed dot X targets or only eclipse X/2 targets. When to hardcast when to static AOE. I like this change, the cream will rise to the top.
    I like the change as it promotes a non lazy play style to do maximum dps but I just can't get my head around the fact they make our potential ability to multi dot way stronger than it was specially given the fact this change buffs all spells making the net gain in dps way higher than just a few lost instant starsurges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    He has a /say macro that yells "CYTERIZ TRANQING!", and he cancels it after the global is up, to keep on dpsing :3. He thinks we dont notice that he just does it to pop the shiny-stars-everywhere-animation.
    I taught him pretty well then in the way of the dps whore.

  2. #962
    I don't think blizzards concern with our multi dotting was that the damage was too high. They just didn't like a "rotation" that was only dots and starsurge. This change keeps our damage up in multi dot fights by shifting damage from starsurge into the dots themselves. That is consistent with what they did for shadow priests and afflicion locks- their dots were buffed. With the 5.3 model and new levels of crit, we were going to have a very very easy time dominating multi target fights. These changes still let us keep up the damage but force us to actually work for it.

    So single target dps is buffed and multi target dps gets a more interesting rotation without a damage loss. Fix hurricanre and ill be a very happy chicken.

  3. #963
    People actually arguing that hybrids should heal, or whatnot, in this situation, just seem out of their mind. Ofcourse we heal as hybrids, and help out, mostly in progress, but as it goes or is needed, not as PART of your rotation. That's just poor design in my opinion.

  4. #964
    Thing is, it's weird when you cast a heal for the damage, not for the actual heal. It makes sense that when you heal you are rewarded with bonus damage, that makes perfect sense (just like when you use NV you are rewarded with healing for doing damage). Problem is you never use it for the heal, so it feels more like Invocation than an actual heal.

  5. #965
    Soul of the Forest - Balance: Wrath, Starfire, and Starsurge casts have a 8% chance to cause Astral Communion to grant 100 Lunar Power or Solar Power instead of activating the next Eclipse

    Dream of Cenarius - Balance: Increases the amount healed by Healing Touch by 20%. Casting Healing Touch increases the damage bonus of the Druid's next Eclipse by 25%

    If we combine both of these talents for fights where 3+ targets are up for a consistent period then maybe we'll be able to put out some considerable damage while maintaining a nice uptime on NG for our DoTs. Of course, this may implicate that our rotation delves back into starsurge / DoT spamming but i guess we'll have to wait and see.

  6. #966
    Doc is a bigger gain on dot damage, which doesnt proc Astral Communion, ofc you will starsurge aswell. You could be right about this, but inc will pretty much always dominate on multi target fights, so i doubt we will combine this often.

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingblaze View Post
    Doc is a bigger gain on dot damage, which doesnt proc Astral Communion, ofc you will starsurge aswell. You could be right about this, but inc will pretty much always dominate on multi target fights, so i doubt we will combine this often.
    That is what i was getting at, if we had enough SS procs to proc SoTF then it would be useful and is incarnation really going to pull ahead on fights like Nazgrim where adds continuously pour in to the fight? i'm not so sure

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by craigp100 View Post
    That is what i was getting at, if we had enough SS procs to proc SoTF then it would be useful and is incarnation really going to pull ahead on fights like Nazgrim where adds continuously pour in to the fight? i'm not so sure
    Probably as on ptr 4 targets were pretty much up constantly when you had cds up

  9. #969
    Cyous didnt they take the healing off hotw or was that reverted?

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Cyous didnt they take the healing off hotw or was that reverted?
    Never read anything about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    He has a /say macro that yells "CYTERIZ TRANQING!", and he cancels it after the global is up, to keep on dpsing :3. He thinks we dont notice that he just does it to pop the shiny-stars-everywhere-animation.

    See!! I knew it^^
    Last edited by Guanos; 2013-08-28 at 07:09 PM.

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Cyous didnt they take the healing off hotw or was that reverted?
    It's still the same on ptr as it is live, they just added a bonus for resto druids only that when they pop it they have increased healing for that duration and well as the other roles they can take up, for all other specs its still the same ole hotw.

  12. #972
    Oh, okay. I thought they took it away to nerf feral pvp or something. Good to hear

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    For the new DOC opener:
    Pre-pull:
    - Healing Touch (10sec)
    - AC into Solar (6sec)
    - Healing Touch (5sec)
    - Starfall + pre-pot (2sec)
    - Starsurge... (1sec)
    Why Healing Touch twice at the start (before Astral Communion and after)?

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutheru View Post
    Why Healing Touch twice at the start (before Astral Communion and after)?
    Because you want the initial Solar Eclipse to benefit from the 25% Damage Increase from DoC while you're casting Wraths to proc trinket(s), then activate Celestial Alignment with the DoC proc from the second Healing Touch.
    Celestial Alignment does not benefit from DoC if you're in an Eclipse with the 25% Damage Increase already active. CA will simply "overwrite" the Eclipse (with DoC increase) and replace it with an Eclipse Damage Increase equal to your mastery, i.e. without the 25% Damage Increase from DoC.

    So without the second Healing Touch to proc DoC, your CA will be weak, considering the bonus you would gain with DoC running.

  15. #975
    I have to say I agree with the fact that we are a hybrid class and that may require us to heal or what have you, and I appreciate the tools Blizzard has given us to help in those situations. I do however disagree with the fact that I feel like I'm being forced in to healing as a damaging spec in order to increase what our main purpose is, a damage dealer. I'm mainly thinking of a scenario in which we are moving along to our next eclipse where we have to cast healing touch and we look for a viable target to do so. If there are no targets at that current point in time that require a heal we use the heal on our selves and the heal it self does nothing. It just seems like a really clunky way of getting around the whole "Help your raid, and get a bonus to your damage".

  16. #976
    Field Marshal voxTree's Avatar
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    While DoC on it's own is certainly less annoying than it's current form on live, I'm still concerned about the clunkiness it has in relation to out T4 talents...

    For the new DOC opener:
    Pre-pull:
    - Healing Touch (10sec)
    - AC into Solar (6sec)
    - Healing Touch (5sec)
    - Starfall + pre-pot (2sec)
    - Starsurge... (1sec)

    Opener:
    - ...Starsurge (on "1" for countdown)
    - Wrath until *Trinket Procs*
    - Celestial Alignment
    - Normal CA playstyle
    - Use NS if you don't have the MetaGem+NG up for HT. (With NG: 0.67sec saved) (With Meta: 0.47sec saved) (With Meta+NG: 0.28sec saved)
    - Don't use HT if you're going to CA immediately after entering Solar Eclipse :: Have NS up for these moments.

    Easy-peazy.
    I'm going to assume that if we pick up treants, we'll continue to pop them with NG+meta+1 trinket proc, correct? And if we pick up Incarnation, are we going to pop it along with CA at the same time to get maximum benefit out of trinkets?

    I kind of cringe at the thought of using SotF with DoC. Where does SotF stand these days? Is it good enough to be speccing into, and under what circumstances?

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    Cyous didnt they take the healing off hotw or was that reverted?
    Aside from HOTW being buffed to Resto (to make it competitive with other talents), the only way they would "nerf" HOTW would be to fix the HealingMod interaction with Eclipse...but I didn't see anything on it. (Remember when Balance: HOTW scaled with Eclipse in the beta? ...I haven't tested on the PTR yet, but they probably didn't touch it.)(To test if it still interacts with Eclipse: 75 pre-Eclipse, Cast Rejuv on yourself [should be ~20], pop HOTW and Rejuv again [should be ~30k], AC into Eclipse and Rejuv again [should be ~40k.] @ 548-551)

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    Remember folks, DOC:HT doesn't mean you heal someone who actually needs it. If you're really concerned about it, just use this macro at consider it "casting a buff" on yourself.
    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /use [@player] Healing Touch

    And if you're going to be useful with DOC:


    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /use [@mouseover,help,nodead][@target,help,nodead][@player] Healing Touch
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    Quote Originally Posted by voxTree View Post
    While DoC on it's own is certainly less annoying than it's current form on live, I'm still concerned about the clunkiness it has in relation to out T4 talents...


    I'm going to assume that if we pick up treants, we'll continue to pop them with NG+meta+1 trinket proc, correct? And if we pick up Incarnation, are we going to pop it along with CA at the same time to get maximum benefit out of trinkets?

    I kind of cringe at the thought of using SotF with DoC. Where does SotF stand these days? Is it good enough to be speccing into, and under what circumstances?
    Good questions:
    Treants playstyle does not change. So, continue the MG+Meta+Trinket proc idea.

    Incarnation:
    I've been popping Incarnation before Starfall during the testing I've taken part of (to be honest, I've only done a few encounters; Garrosh, Protectors, and Malkorok)(I'm not doing progression this tier due to work conflicts...meh).

    As for talent choices this tier:
    SotF + DOC might be our best single-target.
    Incarnation + DOC will be our best burst.
    Incarnation + DOC will be our best "heavy" Multi-Target combination. (3+ sustained, DOES NOT INCLUDE FALLEN PROTECTORS -- But it does for Heroic)
    Incarnation+ HOTW will be our best 2-3 Target combination.
    Treants + HOTW will be very competitive single-target (it's our default choice at this time)
    Treants + DOC shouldn't be viable, at all.
    Treants + NV ....no.
    Incarnation + NV will be very, VERY good for encounters with sustained raid damage in 10man only, such as Malkorok. (NV sucks in 25man.)
    Last edited by Cyous; 2013-08-28 at 11:43 PM.

  18. #978
    Am I the only one who absolutely despises DoC? Blizzard seem like they want to stick with it, but hardcasting healing touches for more dps is pretty stupid, and with this change i foresee DoC being outright required for add fights

  19. #979
    Dreadlord Geekissexy's Avatar
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    I seriously despise how confusing and clunky this is.

  20. #980
    I honestly can't believe there is this many people opposed to casting healing touch rotationally. A lot of fights have consistent damage and yes, of course a lot of the healing touches will be overheal, but if you're not lazy you don't HT yourself but someone with a health deficit, usually the tank.

    It's a lot more to manage than HoTW, and because of that it should be a higher damage gain. As a rough rule of thumb Blizzard has generally said or gone with the idea that active talents/cds/spells, when used properly should outperform passives. Most of all this makes all 3 talents good choices and appropriate in different situations.

    Additionally, I would think many of you have been playing balance all expansion and should be a little bored of the default rotation, especially with INC + HoTW atm. I welcome the change as new flavor and it feels really hybrid-like. The only thing slightly annoying to manage is who to heal with HT.

    The biggest issue with DoC is that treants don't work, which is another problem still with treants themselves (yay for guardian pet AI and scaling). They don't benefit from mastery/eclipse, which is just huge unless they constantly receive massive base damage buffs to adjust for stat inflation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geekissexy View Post
    I seriously despise how confusing and clunky this is.
    How so? you cast one HT prior to entering a new eclipse. One more spell to cast. Not like there are a lot of balance druid "rotational" spells atm anyway.

    You guys also realize a lot of ferals have been doing this for most of the expansion right? And their rotation without DoC already has much more depth than balance. Only difference is sometimes we have to hard cast a few (which is trivial especially with meta uptime atm and 10289 haste bp)

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