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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Lascalpa View Post
    Well let's see whats happening to the bonus in the next days/weeks. Since the ptr just started I think we have to wait for the first fixes.
    Balancing won't happen any time soon. Not until after they've locked down the mechanics. So we're looking at 3-4 weeks before anything is done regarding it at least, probably more since this was announced to be a fairly lengthy PTR phase.

  2. #82
    Since not much will happen for some weeks, I got this idea for 4 set. Chance on [dot crit]* to make the empowered cast spell in the next eclipse an instant cast gaining 50% of the original energy. Instant Starfire and Wrath could be interesting, and more casts in each eclipse can be a bonus, but it might also be situational. Refreshing dots, losing NG, you want to get out of Lunar ASAP etc. * other things could trigger the effect. Make it stack and you could sit outside of eclipse to save up for a burst phase. Instant SS and SF, but SS would gain too much energy to spam, so it wouldn't be too much of a buff. Stacks lost once the next eclipse is over.

    Ah well, I don't have much knowledge about requirements for set bonuses. This is something I would prefer over static % buff to some spells. Something that changes the play style is for me more interesting than passive buffs. The current T16 4 set changes the play style, although I can't see how it's actually possible to benefit much from it.

    Again, this is just my thoughts, not based on anything on PTR. Take it for what it is.

  3. #83
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    I swear they make Balance patch notes with the idea that those who play the spec are masochist's.

    Only thing Blizzard seems to understand about the spec is how to give us half ass "mechanics" that are broken from the start and only get worse over time.

    Cata:

    New secondary Stat: Mastery.

    Only provides value as a secondary stat 50% of the time.

    New version of Eclipse.

    Better then Wrath's version of Eclipse, but tie ins to Mastery and even more Nature's Grace and causes its downfall to this day.

    "Better" controlled Nature's Grace.

    Really, almost nothing changed with Nature's grace from Wrath, you just now had to cast Insect Swarm or Moonfire/Sunfire to trigger it after entering Eclipse. The fact it was tied to our dots made it incredibly annoying due to aoe or "waiting" phases. You could override your Eclipsed Moonfire/Sunfire and spam Lunar Shower, or stand there, if you wanted to save it and Eclipse.

    New stronger nuke, Starsurge.

    It was supposed to be the special ability that was "highest dps" and fun to use for playing the spec. It was nerfed due to PvP before FL launched, causing it to do barely more then Starfire, with the cast time of Wrath.

    New DPS proc, Shooting Star's.

    It was supposed to help make Starsurge more fun, but the 8% proc chance just made it lackluster and boring, procs were rarely seen. If they were, it usually proc'd when SS was coming off of it 15 second CD.

    New movement DPS, Lunar Shower.

    It was going to be the "saving grace" for movement dps, sadly LS suffered the most from everything above. Mastery made it to strong in PvP and in PvE with Eclipse in tow. Nature's Grace being triggered by dots made it so you wasted your very valuable haste proc, and caused long periods without Eclipse, or just Moonfire/Sunfire Spamming + "Stutter" stepping... the whole damn time to get the buff up. It aslso had issues with Starsurge and Shooting Star's, wihtout Eclipse it was very weak, and the Dot Spamming didn't help matters for getting SS procs.

    New "stronger" aoe, Wild Mushrooms.

    They were to "replace" a few things, but mostly the lack of Starfalls 10 yard aoe splash damage from Wrath and Hurricanes horrible dps, and interaction with nature's grace. However, this coupled with hurricane, made Solar the best aoe Eclipse by far It came at a cost though, a cost of 3 global cds and most likely, part of Nature's Grace's proc, with a 10 seconds CD + 3 more Globals. In the end they were to strong damage wise, and were nerfed a few times, rebuffed, nerfed again, then left alone until MoP where they rarely see the light of day in PvE.

    All 7 failed at achieving the goal they were set out to do to, most were nerfed due to PvP, making them "near" useless in PvE. Even with all of these "changes" to Balance, they still left Treats with a targeting circle... for 2 more years.

    We are seeing so many of the same issues again in MoP. Most point back to our roots, Mastery, Eclipse, Nature's Grace, and lack of predictable movement/none wasteful dps.

    All of the dps talents for druids have just multiplied the issues with the Big 3 (Mastery, Eclipse, Nature's Grace). This on top of the continued lack of a safeguard on SS procs being wasted has only made Moonkin DPS more "burst" dependent and more on Blizzards radar, forcing them to mess with the DPS druid talents, every fucking patch.

    But thank Elune/The Earth Mother that Treants now don't need a targeting circle...

    But they still run around like the same idiots who are in control of the Balance Spec at Blizzard, casting entangling roots on targets that don't move. Oh, and not realizing you switch targets 10 seconds ago. They also seem to enjoy NOT being helpful and dpsing, if you choose to, you know, move out of the fire, then they follow you around like a pack of insecure teenagers who don't want to be "uncool" if they Wrath the Boss.

    /end ranting.

    TL;DR

    Blizzard fucked up on Moonkin, again? What a surprise! Let the Sadism and Masochism of Blizzard and the Balance community continue, for another 2-4 years.

  4. #84
    Blizzard has fucked up moonkins? When? I've played one since ICC and never actually have found this boring. True, some of their decicions haven't been the best and I think there are ways to make moonkins better but the only things I'm not happy about for 5.4 is the 4 set and DoC. The 4 set is just simply stupid and I don't think I'd like to use DoC at all.

    The SotF change can be interesting but I can't see it being too useful at higher gear levels in the end. DoC isn't too attractive either to me as the bonus is tied to a single eclipse.

    I'm kind of sad seeing Nature's Swiftness go, but the new talent replacing it looks interesting. Too bad it's a passive though.

  5. #85
    RIP Insta Rebirth, Healing Touch or Cyclone...I loved that talent...now its either instant self heal or bloody passive.
    -15% damage reduction...

    Seriously Blizz just tell us you don't want to see Boomkins in PvP. "Spec resto noobs!"
    Main: Wildmax, Drak'thul - Moonkin, Hardcore raider.
    Got 10x lvl 85 on Drak'thul server and 3 another lvl 85 on different servers and bunch of 10-84 alts.
    Hello no-life.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead_MAX View Post
    RIP Insta Rebirth, Healing Touch or Cyclone...I loved that talent...now its either instant self heal or bloody passive.
    -15% damage reduction...

    Seriously Blizz just tell us you don't want to see Boomkins in PvP. "Spec resto noobs!"
    Apparently, the damage reduction nerf was actually for PvE reasons and we're slated to get some sort of replacement for PvP.
    They also said something about moving more to active defense. Wait a little, if we still don't see anything in 3 weeks, then you can complain. But do so constructively, just saying "This is stupid!" won't improve our situation.

  7. #87
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    I can't see how 15% dmg reduction caused any kind of problems whatsoever in PvE. The only problems in PvE are the massive damage reduction CDs that people have, allowing them to solo soak things intended to be raid soaked and healed. 15% dmg reduction isn't the difference in allowing us to survive anything that would otherwise kill you, so that post made absolutely no sense to me (the blue post).

  8. #88
    Abilities always suffer when blizzard try to balance them between pve and pvp, two completely different parts of the game. Really every spell should have different effects in each.

    I agree with stommped completely, it makes no sense, i never get brought to raids because i have '15% dmg reduct' never. Whereas mages, warlocks and rogues get brought for their amazing CD's and survivability, but do these get nerfed? nope -_-

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I can't see how 15% dmg reduction caused any kind of problems whatsoever in PvE. The only problems in PvE are the massive damage reduction CDs that people have, allowing them to solo soak things intended to be raid soaked and healed. 15% dmg reduction isn't the difference in allowing us to survive anything that would otherwise kill you, so that post made absolutely no sense to me (the blue post).
    When your on the pinnacle of progression -15% dmg reduction was huge, classes like mage and ele shaman just got 1 shot while druids/locks/spriest could survive relatively easy and thus got used alot more in the beginning of progress now it doesn't matter to much when every one has close to 620khp.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I can't see how 15% dmg reduction caused any kind of problems whatsoever in PvE. The only problems in PvE are the massive damage reduction CDs that people have, allowing them to solo soak things intended to be raid soaked and healed. 15% dmg reduction isn't the difference in allowing us to survive anything that would otherwise kill you, so that post made absolutely no sense to me (the blue post).
    My name is Ghostcrab and I don't want to make classes more homogenized. I am also removing 15% DR from 2 classes that don't have a 90% DR #yoloswag #contradictingmyselfagain

  11. #91
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleuria View Post
    When your on the pinnacle of progression -15% dmg reduction was huge, classes like mage and ele shaman just got 1 shot while druids/locks/spriest could survive relatively easy and thus got used alot more in the beginning of progress now it doesn't matter to much when every one has close to 620khp.
    I mean Shaman are the only class without some sort of dmg reduction/absorb shield. We never had an issue with Mages.

    Sure it's nice over the course of a fight, but it's definitely not gamebreaking.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-06-17 at 06:06 PM.

  12. #92
    Ele/enh shamans have shamanistic rage, which is better than barkskin in every way, and their first tier talents for damage reduction (stone bulwark totem or astral shift).
    And yeah, mages...I don't think anyone could seriously say that mages lack survivability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...

    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"

  13. #93
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    True, I was speaking more for Resto Shamans as we don't raid with any DPS shaman. There was several times during progression where our resto shaman died to things other people simply survived, guessing the first tier talent wasn't enough. But again not sure how something could 1 shot one class that boomkins/spriests could survive "easily" with only 15% additional reduction.

    I'm not crying about the change because he said there will be compensation, I just wish I had any idea what he was talking about when he said PvE issues.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I can't see how 15% dmg reduction caused any kind of problems whatsoever in PvE. The only problems in PvE are the massive damage reduction CDs that people have, allowing them to solo soak things intended to be raid soaked and healed. 15% dmg reduction isn't the difference in allowing us to survive anything that would otherwise kill you, so that post made absolutely no sense to me (the blue post).
    Uh, yes, yes it does. Quite a lot. I'm regularly surviving all kinds of shit that drops my fellow casters.

    Then again, Blizz also said that they don't like it because it's passive, not because it's there.

  15. #95
    oh god are they gonna nerf our passive runspeed next? how about our passive damage boost? maybe our passive buffing?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by dark666105 View Post
    oh god are they gonna nerf our passive runspeed next? how about our passive damage boost? maybe our passive buffing?
    No, because we've already got more than enough active parts to those functions. Well, except buffing, but that's no fun anyway.

  17. #97
    Is it me or does warlock QQ overshadow everything and everyone else concerning blue posts?

    They claim an active mitigation philosophy yet they remove our 1/2 active mitigation which is NS and replace it with a passive one?

    I've read Cyous' feedback and while it's formally constructed it has received no response whatsoever...Even from GC on twitter

  18. #98
    I don't really mind these changes all that much, it's nice to see they're trying to work things out and I don't particularly want to stay the same build for a whole expansion because it's the best path to go, it's nice to mix things up now and then. The NS nerf is a downer as that's a real boon for PvE (more-so PvP). The damage reduction isn't really something that bothers me, nice to have but I only raid normals and we have started heroics now but I don't really notice it all that much as I'm not in a top-100 progressive guild, which is where it'll shine when min-maxing. The 2pc looks good, obviously tweaked numbers will sim alot higher nearer release, and the 4pc looks good if your going down a non-inc route. I'm happy to see these changes being looked at, I re-call people were having a moan pre 5.2/5.3 cos they weren't taking a look at us, and now that they are people are still (mainly) being negative.

    Tivook
    Feral Druid

    EU - Draenor

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    They claim an active mitigation philosophy yet they remove our 1/2 active mitigation which is NS and replace it with a passive one?
    Healing yourself is not mitigation.

    Also keep in mind that Blizzard won't(and can't) respond to all feedback, even when it's well written and thought out. That doesn't mean they're ignoring it.

  20. #100
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Uh, yes, yes it does. Quite a lot. I'm regularly surviving all kinds of shit that drops my fellow casters.

    Then again, Blizz also said that they don't like it because it's passive, not because it's there.
    That doesn't make any sense. Shadow Priests also have the same reduction. Warlocks take less damage than anyone typically and also have WAY more hp than anyone. Mages have tier 2 talents which are a small CD shield or passive dmg reduction AND cauterize if they are seriously worried about dieing. So unless you are raiding with all Elemental Shaman (who do have 2 CDs at least) I fail to see why the 15% passive from Moonkin form is making the difference in your survival and your other caster's deaths.

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