Page 53 of 62 FirstFirst ...
3
43
51
52
53
54
55
... LastLast
  1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    As I said before if you don't have a better idea don't make multiple complaint posts b/c its not adding anything constructive. The HTs are helpful, not the best or most helpful heal out there, but keyword here is helpful to the raid so using words like useless and ineffective is wrong.
    It's not my job to think of something else, wtf has that got to do with a piss poor idea from blizz? Are you alwaYs this ObtUse? Your argument is that maybe in a blue moon the heal might not be an over heal?

    I'm voicing my opinion backed up with facts to Complain that although it's a nice dmg buff, the direction the bUff comes from is stupid and iNeffective, if you don't like my opinio maybe you should Take your own advice and stop posting/reading?

  2. #1042
    Quote Originally Posted by fodder View Post
    It's not my job to think of something else, wtf has that got to do with a piss poor idea from blizz? Are you alwaYs this ObtUse? Your argument is that maybe in a blue moon the heal might not be an over heal?

    I'm voicing my opinion backed up with facts to Complain that although it's a nice dmg buff, the direction the bUff comes from is stupid and iNeffective, if you don't like my opinio maybe you should Take your own advice and stop posting/reading?
    what facts lol? you're complaining about a talent just to complain. As I said that's your opinion and if you're going to continue to complain about you could at least offer what you think would be a better idea rather than making 10 posts complaining about the same thing.

    Infracted. Don't reply just to argue for the sake of argument. Be constructive and remain on topic.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2013-08-29 at 09:04 PM.

  3. #1043
    Does anyone have the scale factors/values of Mastery Vs. Crit as of 5.4 while using DoC? I can't seem to find it, and I would like to know when crit becomes less valuable than mastery on a single target fight.

  4. #1044
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    what facts lol? you're complaining about a talent just to complain. As I said that's your opinion and if you're going to continue to complain about you could at least offer what you think would be a better idea rather than making 10 posts complaining about the same thing.
    ---snip---

    Infracted. Do not post just to insult others.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2013-08-29 at 09:03 PM.

  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffers123 View Post
    Does anyone have the scale factors/values of Mastery Vs. Crit as of 5.4 while using DoC? I can't seem to find it, and I would like to know when crit becomes less valuable than mastery on a single target fight.
    something being discussed in the BiS thread already fluffers, so far still looks like crit comes out ahead and no more haste after the 10289 bp

  6. #1046
    DoC is a flat buff not a modifier to your mastery. So it doesnt interact with mastery and thus would not change the value of it. However since it is a flat damage increase (during eclipse) it would most likely increase the value of crit a bit.

  7. #1047
    it wont increase the value of mastery, but it will increase the value of all other stats (since it is essentially just adding more mastery rating).

  8. #1048
    From what i've seen theory isn't actually meeting reality, mastery seems to be doing better in most cases than crit currently on ptr on atleast immerseus and from what i tested on a "dummy" mastery won out by a fair bit aswell but the only way this would be truely tested is having the best owls compete on fights on ptr then compare but from what i've experience most are to stubborn to try new things out.

  9. #1049
    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    And you have zero evidence that it is not going to be 95% overheal. So your guess is no better.

    You seem to have a hard time understanding why it is bad. Let me give you an example. Tank drops to 10% hp, and since you with your almighty raidawareness notice right away, you click your NS+HT macro. BUT WAIT! It is on cd. You start hardcasting, but since boss swing timer is 1.5s the next hit lands before your HT and your tank is dead.

    Also you do contradict yourself quite a bit. Half your posts are: "but it will be a lot of effective healing" while others are "but mages evocation doesn't heal either, so it's fine"

    And if you actually think that all top boomkins will use it for the heal (and not purely for the dps increase), oh boy you are wrong my friend! Yes they specced NV for extra healing even though it was a dps loss, but this is nothing compared to that. If they want extra healing, they will just spec NV this tier aswell.

    And for those saying it will help stabilize tanks, no it wont. constant healing like Lifebloom will. Not a heal every 15 sec.
    Burden of proof is on the one making up the numbers, not the one denying it. Sounds like someone shouldn't have used NS earlier in the encounter -- there are ways to avoid using NS (NG+Meta active). And a 400k+ HT Crit is quite useful on the tank, not sure what makes you think otherwise. I used NV quite a lot in T15 because we had to under-heal a lot of encounters.

    Healing Touch will overheal a lot, or most of the time depending on the encounter, your healing comp, and how lazy you are. People thinking "monitoring your raid frames" constitutes as much focus as watching Recount/Skada for your opening burst. It depends on the player. I just gloss over the frame and notice a bar being nearly empty or half-full. I've saved numerous players on Heroic: Lei Shen using my off-healing. Remember when Balance druids had to heal Phase 3 for Lei Shen after a few Thunderstrucks? Useless you killed it a couple months ago, probably not.

    You're trying to make DOC look bad by saying "The heal is useless lol, don't be stupid." There are many ways to try and min/max DOC (I have noted a few instances in earlier posts). You should change your argument to, "I don't care because I don't want to try." That would be more representing of your arguments thus far...because really, you didn't even try to consider anything beyond "useless overhealing." Unlike you, I've actually been ripping apart DOC to look for plausible min/max options. Unlike you, I actually took the time to figure out some details, rather than sit in a chair and preach to the Internet that DOC is shit because I put forward no effort to say otherwise.

    Top boomkins won't use it purely for the heal, correct. They'll use it for the damage. They'll use DOC when it's optimal to pick it for an encounter, not because some random person on the Internet wrote a couple comments to explain it for them. Top boomkins are obligated to now their spec better than anyone else. If you don't want to play at top-tier levels, then you are hindering the guild with your selfishness. A better player who took 5min to learn the DOC playstyle will stomp your damage when DOC is clearly better, an your guildmates will mock you for not putting forward the effort. Because you don't like the playstyle? Our mages for Ra-den didn't like Arcane, but they were forced into it. We yelled at them to go Arcane so we'd meet the DPS requirement on Orbs -- and we scored a World #4 achievement "I Thought He Was Supposed To Be Hard" as a World #24 guild (25man). But don't mind the mages, they just play whatever they want because playing an optimal spec for your guild is...as you said... "useless."

    @Argument for" Not making it more Complex/Interesting."
    DOC was redesigned with less complexity -- I'm glad you noticed this too. The old DOC was very, very strong if played correctly. Unfortnuately, the complexity wasn't worth the slight gain in damage output. This is why no one took DOC, remember? Or does a single redesign make you completely forget the reasoning behind hating the talent in the first place. "It's too hard. fucking Blizz can't do anything right." -- "Now it's too easy. Fucking Blizz can't do anything right." Where should I put this "QQ" because I don't think anymore will fit. It's not complex because you think "JUST CAST RIGHT BEFORE ECLIPSE LOL." You're also the same kind of player who went Fire for Ra-den progression -- useless.

    @ Button Bloat:
    Seriously, you don't have HT on your bars? Oh wait, you do? Then it's not bloat, it's utilizing a button you already have.

    @ FON being Complex
    Are you stupid or just trolling? Wait for trinket procs, wait for Meta, which has a 45% uptime. Have NG active, which is up 85% of the time. Spam FON. Don't let FON stack up to 3 charges. That is the FON playstyle. And yes, that is the optimal playstyle for FON. ITS TOO FUCKING HARD PLZ HELP.

    Seriously? FON is easier than Incarnation. And Incarnation is really simple too. Our current talent choices are retard-proof -- I mean this to the fullest extent of the phrase. You literally mash Wrath|Starfire and Starsurge, keep DOTs rolling and do average damage. When you start adding DOTs, it gets more complex based on how you handle clipping. We can also retard-proof it by saying things like "Don't refresh your non-Eclipsed DOT if it has less than 6sec left when you would leave Eclipse."

    Optimization, how does it work?

  10. #1050
    I think this will be a fun choice and give a nice change-up to the rotation we're all so used to. I really like the idea of being rewarded for a heal, although I am not crazy about how strict the timing of it will be: one heal HAS to occur at some point between each eclipse. I would love if it stacked to two to let us do a little more planning (bad SS proc streak and raid taking damage? cast two heals and benefit later). Having more than one stack gives more of a "reward for healing" feel than a "heal because I have to increase my dps NOW" feel.

  11. #1051
    Cyous if you read my previous posts you would notice that I've never complained about having to do it, I even stated I was looking forward to it. And if you save NS+HT for when you actually need the instant big heal, it is a dps loss. That is what bothers me. I think it is bad design, because it doesn't encourage hybrid spells (for the healing anyway) that's all.

  12. #1052
    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    Cyous if you read my previous posts you would notice that I've never complained about having to do it, I even stated I was looking forward to it. And if you save NS+HT for when you actually need the instant big heal, it is a dps loss. That is what bothers me. I think it is bad design, because it doesn't encourage hybrid spells (for the healing anyway) that's all.
    The post is misleading to an extent, I should have mentioned that I'm attacking the ideas, not the person.

  13. #1053
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    2,073
    It would make more sense if the heal was Rejuvenation and the benefit were toned down; more likely to get some meaninful healing in and it would yield another option for movement when SS hasn't procced that isn't as braindead as "here cast Starfire while moving," like other classes get. i.e. plan ahead - if you know you will be moving shortly don't interrupt your rotation to rejuve, just wait and you will still get it in before the next eclipse.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-08-29 at 11:06 PM.

  14. #1054
    Right, lazy people will be overhealing themselves with DoC. It doesn't take much time to scan your raid frames, see who needs a heal while casting a spell and queue your Ht up for the next cast. Alos, there are a variety of fights that offer usage for an offheal talent like DoC. Lei shen heroic, when 2 healing, You can act as an offhealer for the platforms, top someone up after a thunderstruck/static shock. Pop it in combination with NS while moving.

    People see it as a bloat, which is completely understandable. That's how I feel about Treants, They don't add any complexity in my honest opinion. You simply have to treat them as another DoT (Save stacks at 2, never cap at 3 unless there is nothing to dps, pop only during NG with an int proc = win).
    The healing touch DoC offers some more versatility in our rotation, if you can anticipate damage of certain mechanics, you can preplan your HT (Thunderstruck as I mentioned earlier, NS+HT for filler during movement, etc). Good boomkins will be able to use this talent to it's full potential with minimal overhealing done. Yes, there will be times when it will be overhealing just to apply the buff, but there are again times when it won't.
    The whole idea of the last druid tier is hybrid usage, if you do not like DoC, spec HotW, and be done with it. There will still be fights where HotW will be needed for the Tranq combo, and then there will be fights where DoC will be better, as it should be.

    I can already think of 9 fights in the next tier where this talent will be very potent in assisting the healing and greatly increasing your damage output when used effectively.
    Immerseus for example: Submerged phase: Get one cast away from eclipse, throw a HT+Rejuv on a friendly add. Get into eclipse, dot up 3-4 enemy blobs, shift back to HT a friendly add and then shift back to dpsing.

    As I said in an earlier post, it would be nice if they promoted Cenarion Ward via DoC as well, since at the moment, The way to go will probably be either renewal for a strong self burst heal in combination with might of ursoc after soaking a heavy damage ability like Static Shock, or roll with Ysera's gift because either they're better for ohshit moments or it's easier. Cenarion Ward interaction with DoC would promote a more active playstyle if you want to use the talent to your fullest extent. To be frank, the negative nancies do have a point that most of the HT healing done could potentially be overhealing just for the uptime.
    Arguably, it'll perhaps take away from planning the HT into your rotation and have it's healing be useful, but then again, CW while instant cast, is on a CD and therefor requires also a bit of planning.
    Last edited by Rocketbear; 2013-08-29 at 11:43 PM.
    Check out my youtube channel of fail: http://www.youtube.com/EliteRocketbear

    8/8Hc DS

  15. #1055
    I put of post up on the PTR Blizz forums that could help solve the utility problem you guys are discussing. I gave reason behind it for mostly mechanic and utility purposes.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9793259997

    The basic idea was to create this glyph:
    Druid Glyph - Glyph of Wild Healing
    Your Healing Touch no longer requires a target, and instead heals the lowest health target within 40 yards. Reduces healing done by Healing Touch by X%.

    It would provide better utility and would be balanced around not having to click or find the perfect target. It also gives those who can use Healing Touch effectively have a choice to NOT take the glyph. The glyph can be used for multiple specs.

    Read the post and give feedback please
    Last edited by Kilma; 2013-08-30 at 01:16 AM.

  16. #1056
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    774
    As a lot of you have seen, a few people have received infractions (again) in this thread for non-constructive posts. I don't particularly want to close this thread as there is still some intelligent discussion going on, but you guys are giving me almost no choice. Flaming, degrading or otherwise defaming others for your own sake isn't strengthening your argument. Instead, there's more of a chance people will reply with hostility towards you, and using a text medium means messages can seem passive aggressive.

    What I see a lot in this thread are arguments without supporting evidence. People say things but don't back them up sufficiently, which means you inspire others to do the same. Another thing that's prevalent is using anecdotal or insufficient evidence to support claims. You can't say 3-minutes on a training dummy is enough to warrant one stat is better than another, or one talent is king. There's just too much RNG within a small data set that you can't conclude anything without seeing an extremely high variance between trials - I'm talking like doubling your DPS with a talent switch - but since talents and stats are tuned to be "relatively" the same, you can't discern that sort of difference using limited tests. Even sitting on a dummy for 1,000 different 3-minute tests for a haste or crit reforging would not definitively show one stat is better than the other.

    But... I do understand this is a PTR, and not all of our testing material is available (ie. models, thousands of WoL logs), and so we're not able to definitively claim anything. This is a good point to make though - everyone here cannot exactly say they are 100% correct. Or even 90%. We're all here to discuss the changes and give our thoughts on the matter - we're not here to state DoC will be the best talent in 5.4 and that everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong, or that mastery will be our king multi-target stat in the new patch without question. We're not here to state those things because we can't. You simply aren't sure enough to be certain of something that has had such little testing and understanding. None of us are.

    So all I'm asking is people realise that everyone here is fallible, that their arguments are just opinions, and you all need to chill out. It's extremely important to theorycrafting that these discussions take place, but with the toxic way it's currently being conducted I'm not certain any actual benefit is being drawn. Please be courteous to your other posters, and please be civil. This thread has a lot of potential, especially in the final weeks of the PTR, and we should finish it strong.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-08-30 at 04:29 AM.

  17. #1057
    This forum is starting to feel like North Korea...

  18. #1058
    For DoC I prefer healing the tank instead of me:

    /target TANKNAME
    /targetlasttarget

    Bind the macro on a key and gg.
    DoC is atm for multitarget-situation and directly burst with incarnation very nice.
    On single target we will see. I think directly on Progress in 10 man, NV or HotW (for mega tranq) will pull ahead anyway.

  19. #1059
    forgot the
    /cast Healing Touch
    in there

  20. #1060
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Suffolk, UK.
    Posts
    1,061
    Quote Originally Posted by dark666105 View Post
    forgot the
    /cast Healing Touch
    in there
    You had to spoil it xD

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •