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  1. #1121
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    ...make an Aura that reminds you to cast Healing Touch with an audio and/or visual queue when you reach Direction+Ecplise(-60|60) and be on your way. Add a condition for "if DOC buff is active then \Dont play anything\ " . My DOC is tracked with 2 auras. It's really, really easy to know if I didn't cast Healing Touch yet.
    Surely it would be more efficient to play the audio when meta + ng are active if the doc buff isnt active.

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  2. #1122
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    Surely it would be more efficient to play the audio when meta + ng are active if the doc buff isnt active.
    Will anyone be able to make a WA like this and share it? Maybe also make it ignore having the haste buffs if you are at 80+- energy?
    Is it possible to have the HT buff as well as the Eclipse buff up at the same time (e.g if you cast HT when already in eclipse) ?

  3. #1123
    this is my result 3min single dps to training dummy (ilvl548)
    no use any consumables, mushroom and NS

    Inc+hotw :147,439
    Inc+DoC : 152,209
    FoN+hotw :150,439
    FoN+DoC:160,779
    Inc+NV:153,008
    SotF+hotW:151,444
    SotF+DoC:148,182

    (SotF proc 3-5time/3min)

  4. #1124
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    To all the people crying for "cast while moving" effects: Seriously, just stop trying to develop this game Blizzard. I used to be on the "give me more movement DPS" bandwagon and promptly left it 2 patches ago. Lets look at all our core spells which are used very often -- no cast time:
    - Moonfire
    - Sunfire
    - Starfall
    - Starsurge

    Guess what good players do about movement? -> They learn to delay SS, Starfall, MF and SnF slightly (mostly MF and SnF), to lessen the penalty of movement.

    Oh wait! I need to move, but I need to HT before I can use this SS to proc Eclipse? LOL NATURE'S SWIFTNESS.

    It's like magic. Some people believe, others just haven't seen good magic yet.

    Blizzard has no intention of adding more cast-while-moving mechanics to this game. In fact, they're going to gut most of it in 5.4. I wouldn't be surprised if they completely did away with passive cast-while-moving effects. Spiritwalker's Grace is fine (15sec, 3min CD), because it's not passive -- KJC. This game has too many mechanics and changing something has too large an impact on other aspects. Stop trying to get the best of everything. No one ever felt good playing a game for 9 years if they ran around with /godmode active. I'm positive you never enjoyed cheating through a game as much as you did winning legitimately.

    Back on topic:
    If you don't want to cast DOC twice per Eclipse cycle, then pick up HOTW. It's like people need to be told how to play a damn game. It's a game, play as you want. If you want to be optimal, learn the optimal playstyle. If you want to use DOC, use DOC. If you don't want to use DOC, don't use DOC. Blizzard gives you options. You make the choices. I'm not even raiding progression in 5.4 and it feels like I've done more than my share of "helping the raiding community." Why don't the people who don't like DOC simply say why they don't like it? Seriously now, good feedback gets noticed. Give good feedback to theorycrafters and Blizzard alike, and we're going to criticize it for all its worth. You don't like casting HT once per Eclipse? Fine, but you're really not giving a reason as to why you dislike it. Because it feels clunky? What does "clunky" mean to you? Good feedback, or lurk more.
    You do realise that NS will be baseline for resto only, right? And saying that you can pick whatever you want is simply not true for the people looking to min/max. If the encounter favours DoC, you'll pick DoC or shoot yourself in the foot and let your raid down (progress).

  5. #1125
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmuffin View Post
    You do realise that NS will be baseline for resto only, right? And saying that you can pick whatever you want is simply not true for the people looking to min/max. If the encounter favours DoC, you'll pick DoC or shoot yourself in the foot and let your raid down (progress).
    They changed that a while back. NS will be baseline for resto AND balance. WoWDB source: Nature's Swiftness
    And he's saying if you don't want to cast HT, go HotW - in other words, if you cba to go the extra mile to increase your DPS, don't. But that's on you at that point.

    Edit: changed link to WoWDB
    "Such insolence... such arrogance... must be PUNISHED!"

  6. #1126
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmuffin View Post
    You do realise that NS will be baseline for resto only, right? And saying that you can pick whatever you want is simply not true for the people looking to min/max. If the encounter favours DoC, you'll pick DoC or shoot yourself in the foot and let your raid down (progress).
    DoC is only better if you can actually play with it. If you can't, you're better of with HotW. After a year of MoP, some people will be so stuck in their rotation that they couldn't change it if they wanted to.

    It isn't as easy as looking up what talent is best for what encounter, they're close enough that your personal skill overrides that easily.

  7. #1127
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Will anyone be able to make a WA like this and share it? Maybe also make it ignore having the haste buffs if you are at 80+- energy?
    Is it possible to have the HT buff as well as the Eclipse buff up at the same time (e.g if you cast HT when already in eclipse) ?
    You can cast HT and get the buff while in the eclipse but it won't affect the current eclipse but the next one.

  8. #1128
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    I've been through the last 15 pages of this thread. Can someone give some more insight on what stat weights will be most beneficial next patch? Ex: will we continue to go for 10289 haste break point.. then focus crit? Or has this completely changed with the changes Blizz is handing out. Honest questions: sorry if its been answered previously. Thanks for your time.

  9. #1129
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawwlsy View Post
    I've been through the last 15 pages of this thread. Can someone give some more insight on what stat weights will be most beneficial next patch? Ex: will we continue to go for 10289 haste break point.. then focus crit? Or has this completely changed with the changes Blizz is handing out. Honest questions: sorry if its been answered previously. Thanks for your time.
    Yes stat priorities are the same for pve so far. The stat weight values have shifted slightly with the talent changes, but haste still isn't worth much after 10289 and crit is still > mastery, just a bit more desirable than in the past.

  10. #1130
    Quote Originally Posted by gomen View Post
    this is my result 3min single dps to training dummy (ilvl548)
    no use any consumables, mushroom and NS

    Inc+hotw :147,439
    Inc+DoC : 152,209
    FoN+hotw :150,439
    FoN+DoC:160,779
    Inc+NV:153,008
    SotF+hotW:151,444
    SotF+DoC:148,182

    (SotF proc 3-5time/3min)
    I'm amazed nobody has commented on this yet. You can't just do a 3 minute pull at a dummy and expect it to have any value. The fact that FoN + DoC came out on top exemplifies this. You're not getting accurate results or accounting for trinket, meta, crit RNG etc. by doing one, or even a few tests. At the very least, you would want to do dozens of attempts lasting several minutes, but this is why we have sims.

  11. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Yes stat priorities are the same for pve so far. The stat weight values have shifted slightly with the talent changes, but haste still isn't worth much after 10289 and crit is still > mastery, just a bit more desirable than in the past.
    Thank you for taking the time to respond! Best of luck next patch

  12. #1132
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    I'm amazed nobody has commented on this yet. You can't just do a 3 minute pull at a dummy and expect it to have any value. The fact that FoN + DoC came out on top exemplifies this. You're not getting accurate results or accounting for trinket, meta, crit RNG etc. by doing one, or even a few tests. At the very least, you would want to do dozens of attempts lasting several minutes, but this is why we have sims.
    well 150 seems really really low for that item level as well even if he was just self buffed. Part of the reason we have sims, no? I think Hamlet is close to wrapping up the 5.4 talent changes in WC if you're interested in numbers that hold more water than a target dummy.

  13. #1133
    Well, we do need live tests to check those numbers, but i wouldn't exactly call dummies live tests.

    Anyway, the error margin is probably big enough on those numbers that we can't tell if FoN+DoC is better than Inc+HotW

  14. #1134
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmuffin View Post
    You do realise that NS will be baseline for resto only, right? And saying that you can pick whatever you want is simply not true for the people looking to min/max. If the encounter favours DoC, you'll pick DoC or shoot yourself in the foot and let your raid down (progress).
    NS is Resto and Balance, it has been for ~ 2 months, jump on the PTR sometime, k? Also, yes. That's what I said. Good to see someone agreeing with me about playing optimally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    Surely it would be more efficient to play the audio when meta + ng are active if the doc buff isnt active.
    Of course, but the point isn't to play for you, it's just a reminder in case you tunnel. I'd rather make a WA than a TMW for the more "reminder-bot" playstyle; I really hate TMW's "conditionals" GUI.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    I'm amazed nobody has commented on this yet. You can't just do a 3 minute pull at a dummy and expect it to have any value. The fact that FoN + DoC came out on top exemplifies this. You're not getting accurate results or accounting for trinket, meta, crit RNG etc. by doing one, or even a few tests. At the very least, you would want to do dozens of attempts lasting several minutes, but this is why we have sims.
    Plus Incarnation is going to be stronger in shorter trials.
    Where's the 50mil trials of Beta? (I guess 150mil would be better suited for this ilvl though)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Well, we do need live tests to check those numbers, but i wouldn't exactly call dummies live tests.

    Anyway, the error margin is probably big enough on those numbers that we can't tell if FoN+DoC is better than Inc+HotW
    I'm not sure how DOC interacts with Treants, would you happen to know? (not an angry comment, just trying to fish for information). Are we just going off the bonus damage of DOC towards our DOTs and Nukes?

  15. #1135
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyous View Post
    I'm not sure how DOC interacts with Treants, would you happen to know? (not an angry comment, just trying to fish for information). Are we just going off the bonus damage of DOC towards our DOTs and Nukes?
    Given that Treants don't scale with Eclipse, it shouldn't have any effect. The only T6 talent they should scale with is HotW.
    Which gets back to my point: There's so big an error in gomen's numbers that they don't really tell us anything.

  16. #1136
    Basically, Cyous. DoC/Treants seem pretty counter-intuitive. I don't know if you could make some argument for a fight like lei shen with bursty aoe adds and mostly single target?? I doubt it, but only time will tell.

  17. #1137
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawwlsy View Post
    I've been through the last 15 pages of this thread. Can someone give some more insight on what stat weights will be most beneficial next patch? Ex: will we continue to go for 10289 haste break point.. then focus crit? Or has this completely changed with the changes Blizz is handing out. Honest questions: sorry if its been answered previously. Thanks for your time.
    Sadly it looks as though we are stuck with the same talent choices and stats as before, despite all the changes :<

  18. #1138
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Sadly it looks as though we are stuck with the same talent choices and stats as before, despite all the changes :<
    Idk what you mean by this comment? The talents have changed to make the numbers more in line with other choices in the same tier. Most of the choices have been the same all xpac iirc? Ysera's gift is the only change so far and why would you want stat priorities to change drastically mid expansion?

  19. #1139
    Quote Originally Posted by gomen View Post
    this is my result 3min single dps to training dummy (ilvl548)
    no use any consumables, mushroom and NS

    Inc+hotw :147,439
    Inc+DoC : 152,209
    FoN+hotw :150,439
    FoN+DoC:160,779
    Inc+NV:153,008
    SotF+hotW:151,444
    SotF+DoC:148,182

    (SotF proc 3-5time/3min)
    2 questions: How awake were you during those tests? I'm currently pulling far higher dps when just testing dummies with 5 item levels lower than yourself (on both live and ptr, closer to the 175k marging when having zero buffs).
    Were you using T15 4piece talent with DoC, if so, are you aware that they're bugged atm and don't properly trigger together?

    Treants and DoC aren't supposed to scale at all together, because treants do not scale with eclipse or mastery. Ergo, you dun goofed, mate.
    Last edited by Rocketbear; 2013-09-08 at 02:09 AM.
    Check out my youtube channel of fail: http://www.youtube.com/EliteRocketbear

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  20. #1140
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketbear View Post
    Was this with with T16 4piece or not? since DoC and T15 4piece are a bit bugged together
    This is fixed, the last 2-3 days the damage + tooltip has been benefitting properly. My bonus with live gear (t15 4set) is 63% with DoC buff. I can't remember the specifics, but I've heard eclipse stuff is handled server side so idk if it would have even required a patch or hotfix.

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