[Balance] 5.4 Changes and Thoughts

[Slippykins]

I think it's definitely a good thing that they're acknowledging something that's been a Boomkin cause-for-concern all tier -- SS procs and waste -- but it doesn't really accomplish helping the waste part. It'll definitely mean crit is worth more per point if we ignore waste, since each point of crit conveys a higher chance for an SS proc, but if you factor in waste it'll have a higher diminishing return per additional point as well. Not sure if it'll mean the value of crit is lower than now or higher, but chances are we're going to see much higher SS proc waste than this tier.

It'll absolutely be a 1 or 2 target damage increase, but beyond that I'm not entirely sure. As someone said earlier, we're already swimming in procs when multidotting ~4 targets, so we might just end up applying the eclipsed DoT and then interweaving SS procs. Uneclipsed DoTs might not be required to fill in a rotation - if we can DPS consistently with every GCD used in a DoT length cycle just applying our eclipsed DoT and using SS procs, then that's the best DPS we'll be able to do. So it could also be a multi-target increase, just depends on how it all maths out. Give it a couple of days.

[Deleted]

SS accounts for so much of our damage currently, having more procs will indeed account for more wastage, however even if your getting procs faster than you can use them all, your still using them as fast as possible and over the duration of the fight this new set bonus will give more, hence higher dps. Also you must remember that starsurge triggers the 2 set bonus, so more procs actually makes the 2 set more valuable.

I also completely agree with slippy, and from testing its a massive dps loss to place both dots on 4+ targets, the SS procs just fly in from about 3 targets with just the eclipsed dot. Its a shame there isnt a mechanic where we can convert SS procs into some kind of aoe burst, because it would work nicely. Tbh i would recommend that boomkins let the good aoe classes do the aoe, and we just dot about 4 targets and burn the boss with rolling SS procs.

Will be interesting, but for me personally, managing my SS procs is fun, so i am interested to try it in raid scenarios.

[Cyous]

With the new 4pc, I still firmly believe our Stack Priority will be:

Int > Hit (5100) > Haste (10289) > Crit > Mastery > Haste

In order to actually get the benefit of the 4pc..you still need to crit in the first place...not sure people grasp that concept. They aren't looking at when they get those "wasted" SS procs. UVLS + CA DOTs? if you get 2 procs on the same instant...you wasted 1 proc. It seems skewed, but it's really not big of a deal. We can stagger DOTs ever so slightly and may, potentially, GCD lock ourselves with SS procs after just 4 rolling DOTs.

Will we be "wasting" more procs with this bonus? Yes. But we'll also be casting SS more often, so it's still a fairly large increase in damage output, especially in single-target and 2-target multi-dot. When we start getting to 4-5+ targets, we start to cast fewer DOTs, fun fact -- you can spam SS all day, but if you don't get a proc within a GCD, you can apply another DOT! The point is, you shouldn't be wasting GCDs waiting for SS to proc. Keep yourself busy and play smart. You shouldn't be casting Eclipsed Wraths or Starfires if you're multi-doting, with the 4pc, if you have an encounter similar to Horridon.

[Slippykins]

With the new 4pc, I still firmly believe our Stack Priority will be:

Int > Hit (5100) > Haste (10289) > Crit > Mastery > Haste

In order to actually get the benefit of the 4pc..you still need to crit in the first place...not sure people grasp that concept. They aren't looking at when they get those "wasted" SS procs. UVLS + CA DOTs? if you get 2 procs on the same instant...you wasted 1 proc. It seems skewed, but it's really not big of a deal. We can stagger DOTs ever so slightly and may, potentially, GCD lock ourselves with SS procs after just 4 rolling DOTs.

Will we be "wasting" more procs with this bonus? Yes. But we'll also be casting SS more often, so it's still a fairly large increase in damage output, especially in single-target and 2-target multi-dot. When we start getting to 4-5+ targets, we start to cast fewer DOTs, fun fact -- you can spam SS all day, but if you don't get a proc within a GCD, you can apply another DOT! The point is, you shouldn't be wasting GCDs waiting for SS to proc. Keep yourself busy and play smart. You shouldn't be casting Eclipsed Wraths or Starfires if you're multi-doting, with the 4pc, if you have an encounter similar to Horridon.

Crit will definitely see a DPP increase absolutely - I'm not sure if anyone was arguing differently. The point I tried to make was that, as we've seen this tier, crit has a diminishing effect on DPS the more you have due to SS proc waste. We'll just have to see if that causes any interactions with the other stats, or if it affects the point where crit = mastery, as we were nearing that threshold this tier.

Still, I think it'll be a great bonus to be a little less RNG dependent fishing for SS procs on 1 target.

[Mirri]

It's a buff to movement dps once we get 4 piece too with the increased number of SS procs. Not too bad at all - I'm liking the 4 piece bonus!

[xtramuscle]

It's a buff to movement dps once we get 4 piece too with the increased number of SS procs. Not too bad at all - I'm liking the 4 piece bonus!

I was a tad skeptical at first; but even on multi target fights it should be a minor increase due to only (having to) roll eclipsed dots potentially? Also it amplifies the 2set a little. So they work together which is nice.

This set bonus was worth the whining imo

[Fleuria]

2 set goes on your crit rating now so its around ~4% dps increase instead of 2% which is nice.

4 set is really nice kinda stop the rng of going 20s with no procs then to have like 6 at the same time.

[Deleted]

*logs PTR*

*Crosses fingers*

[Gliron]

4 set is really nice kinda stop the rng of going 20s with no procs then to have like 6 at the same time.

if you have >540 ilvl you´ll never have 20s without a proc. in a raiding environment i rarely cast starsurges at all. in fact i use a 3rd party program on certain encouters to fire my starsurges und stop the proc waste. and even on single target fights the program reduces the wastage and makes besser use of my procs. but with it you have a harder time to manage your eclipses. human reaction time cannot compete with how the proc works atm. with 4p bonus i am forced to use it even more.

[Fleuria]

if you have >540 ilvl you´ll never have 20s without a proc. in a raiding environment i rarely cast starsurges at all. in fact i use a 3rd party program on certain encouters to fire my starsurges und stop the proc waste. and even on single target fights the program reduces the wastage and makes besser use of my procs. but with it you have a harder time to manage your eclipses. human reaction time cannot compete with how the proc works atm. with 4p bonus i am forced to use it even more.

I have 547 ilvl, there are times where i get 0 procs and then i get 7 at the exact same time so, there is a thing called being unlucky and i've also gone the whole of my CA's with not one starsurge proc.

happens quite alot actually.

[Drayarr]

if you have >540 ilvl you´ll never have 20s without a proc. in a raiding environment i rarely cast starsurges at all. in fact i use a 3rd party program on certain encouters to fire my starsurges und stop the proc waste. and even on single target fights the program reduces the wastage and makes besser use of my procs. but with it you have a harder time to manage your eclipses. human reaction time cannot compete with how the proc works atm. with 4p bonus i am forced to use it even more.

Read the bold part and literally headbutted my desk.
Also, I've seen UVLS produce minimal SS procs. Rng.

- - - Updated - - -

I was a tad skeptical at first; but even on multi target fights it should be a minor increase due to only (having to) roll eclipsed dots potentially? Also it amplifies the 2set a little. So they work together which is nice.

This set bonus was worth the whining imo

You do nothing but whine to me tho Vexxe <3

[Broodling67]

Glyph of the Moonbeast You can now cast Healing Touch, Rejuvenation, Rebirth, and Tranquility without cancelling Moonkin Form. Major Glyph. Balance. hm i wonder if this means we get to cast in moonkin form baseline

Confirmed. http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...fs-to-boomkin/

[Stommped]

I have 547 ilvl, there are times where i get 0 procs and then i get 7 at the exact same time so, there is a thing called being unlucky and i've also gone the whole of my CA's with not one starsurge proc.

happens quite alot actually.

Whenever I have to hardcast Starsurge in the middle of a fight I just want to log off and play a different game.

[Minituk]

Whenever I have to hardcast Starsurge in the middle of a fight I just want to log off and play a different game.

Whenever I get a SS proc after Starsurge comes off cooldown, but before I have a chance to hard cast it, I just want to quit.

[huth]

Eh, at least you get an instant cast out of it.

if you have >540 ilvl you´ll never have 20s without a proc. in a raiding environment i rarely cast starsurges at all. in fact i use a 3rd party program on certain encouters to fire my starsurges und stop the proc waste. and even on single target fights the program reduces the wastage and makes besser use of my procs. but with it you have a harder time to manage your eclipses. human reaction time cannot compete with how the proc works atm. with 4p bonus i am forced to use it even more.

Doesn't work that way. Even at 100% crit, you could still go an entire fight with 0 procs total. Also, your little program is against the rules.

[Aboubacar]

if you have >540 ilvl you´ll never have 20s without a proc. in a raiding environment i rarely cast starsurges at all. in fact i use a 3rd party program on certain encouters to fire my starsurges und stop the proc waste. and even on single target fights the program reduces the wastage and makes besser use of my procs. but with it you have a harder time to manage your eclipses. human reaction time cannot compete with how the proc works atm. with 4p bonus i am forced to use it even more.

And I thought Simcraft was bad... I'll have to be less harsh on the program after reading this post...

[Gliron]

Read the bold part and literally headbutted my desk.
Also, I've seen UVLS produce minimal SS procs. Rng.

play on my lvl and you know iam right.

and ok never hardcasting a starsurge in a fight is very unlikely, but in 90% of the fight its true. and in most movement parts of fights (eg lei shen thunderstruck) i dont reapply dots, but just smash my ss button and hope for procs. and in most cases i get one or even two procs. so fuck rng, our crit lvl atm is so high that we get our procs.

[Fleuria]

play on my lvl and you know iam right.

Play on your lvl? to use a 3rd party program you must be pretty bad in general.

[Gliron]

Play on your lvl? to use a 3rd party program you must be pretty bad in general.

i got my top ranks (1-5) in every hc encounter (cheese or no cheese) this tier. the program just improves my dps. its not my fault i feel forced to use it (horridon, council pull, primordius, animus,twins). the ss mechanic sucks.

[Fleuria]

i got my top ranks (1-5) in every hc encounter (cheese or no cheese) this tier. the program just improves my dps. its not my fault i feel forced to use it. the ss mechanic sucks.

The fact you need a program to play and rank says it all, guessing if you didn't use the program your dps would be a good 10-20% lower and Idk how bad on progress.

Oh well its your choice.