[Balance] 5.4 Changes and Thoughts

[Deleted]

does someone know how much of a dps increase the new 4pc will be?

[Deleted]

does someone know how much of a dps increase the new 4pc will be?

Thats extremely difficult to answer due to how Shooting Stars works, your raid buffed crit %, the number of targets, and finally how well you manage your SS procs.

As i said earlier, from testing its a very nice dps increase on low target numbers, but as we get to the high end of 4+ it gets to the point where it loses its effectiveness.

Like slippy said earlier, we will probably end up only empowered dotting targets of this number.

Anyways, we need to evaluate stat weights etc, which i am sure slippy will do soon, and i will have a look in the near future. I really think crit is going to get devalued, which is contradictory to what others have said, and we will stack alot of int, which in turn will push more damage in alot of situations.

[lappee]

the 4-set just changes SS proc chance from 0,3 to 0,5. Doing that in wrathcalcs (as well as increasing SS wastage by 50%) increases the dps by ~7% at current tier bis gear, also crits value was increased by ~17% (mastery value increased by ~7% and haste decreased by ~2%)

this as a result of 5min playing with wrathcalcs

[Glurp]

I would really like to have Starsurge work on a charge system like Hand of Gul'dan, it would help SS proc wastage go down a lot. It's a bit weird being balanced around losing procs and it allows for people using 3rd party key spamming programs to get ahead with no consequence, because seriously, Blizzard won't ban for that even though they say they will.

[Fleuria]

Can quite easily see this set bonus getting another redisgn or a toning down, don't think they intend for it to make starsurge go up in total damage by ~10-15% depending on targets etc.

Just on thok alone, most druids i know were quite easily battering every other class just because of the way higher chance to get a starsurge chain going.

[Stommped]

Can quite easily see this set bonus getting another redisgn or a toning down, don't think they intend for it to make starsurge go up in total damage by ~10-15% depending on targets etc.

Just on thok alone, most druids i know were quite easily battering every other class just because of the way higher chance to get a starsurge chain going.

I did very well on Thok, but not even in the same universe as the fire mage. Can't compete with 700k (on average) combustion ticks. But that was due to amplify trinket obv. There were several pulls where I was out for where Combustion alone did more damage than the rest of the raid combined.

[Glurp]

Can quite easily see this set bonus getting another redisgn or a toning down, don't think they intend for it to make starsurge go up in total damage by ~10-15% depending on targets etc.

Just on thok alone, most druids i know were quite easily battering every other class just because of the way higher chance to get a starsurge chain going.

The design of the 4set is easy to see, increase Single Target DPS. However when the new 4set is brought into an AoE situation then it becomes a little bit silly.

[Aboubacar]

The design of the 4set is easy to see, increase Single Target DPS. However when the new 4set is brought into an AoE situation then it becomes a little bit silly.

The 4set atm is well designed IMO, but of course that's relative to the previously proposed 4set. Hopefully AE changes come in the form of mushroom damage buffs later on or changes to they way mushrooms are used for balance. Currently a nearly dead spell and it really needs some attention, but unfortunately not seeing Blizzard interested in changing them atm.

[Abdir]

How do you use treants "propperly" ?

[Fleuria]

The 4set atm is well designed IMO, but of course that's relative to the previously proposed 4set. Hopefully AE changes come in the form of mushroom damage buffs later on or changes to they way mushrooms are used for balance. Currently a nearly dead spell and it really needs some attention, but unfortunately not seeing Blizzard interested in changing them atm.

Well it may need more ptr bosses but in general it felt like playing balance back from beta and that's why i think it might be nerfed to 10% instead of 20%, wrecking people by a good %age margin other than say mage but with the trinket nerf this might be balanced out.

Either way the real issue in general is the fact our 5+ target aoe needs a buff to be competitive as atm we just fall horribly behind compared to mage / ele etc. never really got why they nerfed shrooms then to just give an equal aoe to warriors in roar.

[xtramuscle]

Well it may need more ptr bosses but in general it felt like playing balance back from beta and that's why i think it might be nerfed to 10% instead of 20%, wrecking people by a good %age margin other than say mage but with the trinket nerf this might be balanced out.

Either way the real issue in general is the fact our 5+ target aoe needs a buff to be competitive as atm we just fall horribly behind compared to mage / ele etc. never really got why they nerfed shrooms then to just give an equal aoe to warriors in roar.

Doesn't roar have a 1min cd? Mushrooms is like 10 seconds?

[Deleted]

Doesn't roar have a 1min cd? Mushrooms is like 10 seconds?

Doesnt roar take the push of 1 button and 0 prep time (meaning no rotational dps is lost), and mushrooms takes 4 buttons and about 5 seconds (meaning significant rotation can be lost)?

Now how about we dont write silly things to compare moves we all know are completely different.


It really would be nice if blizz could do something for our aoe, i have already made suggestions, like the storm / hurricane being like rain of fire, or we could have a Cooldown which makes our dots splash on ticks, or we could have storm / hurricane not benefit from NG and then rebalance the damage to be equal so that we can channel for longer periods.

[xtramuscle]

Doesnt roar take the push of 1 button and 0 prep time (meaning no rotational dps is lost), and mushrooms takes 4 buttons and about 5 seconds (meaning significant rotation can be lost)?

Now how about we dont write silly things to compare moves we all know are completely different.


It really would be nice if blizz could do something for our aoe, i have already made suggestions, like the storm / hurricane being like rain of fire, or we could have a Cooldown which makes our dots splash on ticks, or we could have storm / hurricane not benefit from NG and then rebalance the damage to be equal so that we can channel for longer periods.

Except mushrooms are baseline, and roar is a dps CHOICE over shockwave or something else. Which makes it situational. You choose it when it will be better; we always have mushrooms. I wouldn't want to see them stronger at the exspense of a longer cooldown; they just need to be more dynamic. To help with our sustained aoedps - something neither the current build of mushroom or dragon roar provide.

[Fleuria]

Except mushrooms are baseline, and roar is a dps CHOICE over shockwave or something else. Which makes it situational. You choose it when it will be better; we always have mushrooms. I wouldn't want to see them stronger at the exspense of a longer cooldown; they just need to be more dynamic. To help with our sustained aoedps - something neither the current build of mushroom or dragon roar provide.

Except in t14 all warriors took it and you could easily rape an add wave pretty quickly now however they buffed the other talents to be more viable, this was all i based it on bit old now anyway.

Wish they would come up with a nice way to reinvent our aoe.

[Deleted]

ok lets throw some oil on the fire xD.

Seeing how people like/dislike the new 4 set bonus and/or the idea of shooting stars stacking up (lets take to the maximum of 2).

Now if you had to choose what would you personally prefer the 50% proc chance which would bring a more steady amount of proccs of starsurges and well makes having to wreck our starsurge button once we pop cd's or the shooting stars stacking which would allow us to play a little more with starsurge like saving 2 up for movement or for some on demand burst in case a trinket proccs.

and what about astral communion? you ok with it being able to be cast on the move as a pvp set bonus or do you want it baseline??? I could find multiple occasions where that would come in handy in a pve situation (lei shen hc phase 3 much?).

anyway I like how the specc is looking right now although I wouldn't mind seeing a change to mushrooms and our 5-8 target cleave (especcialy when stacked up).

I would love to know your opinions on that matter since i'm a lil puzzled after reading other peoples thinkin here

[Deleted]

How is spirit looking on gear so far? We're practically overflooding in it right now, so I hope they will reduce the amount.

[Dubalazi]

How is spirit looking on gear so far? We're practically overflooding in it right now, so I hope they will reduce the amount.

Set has 0 spirit items - we will be fine.

[Slippykins]

How is spirit looking on gear so far? We're practically overflooding in it right now, so I hope they will reduce the amount.

Once the items and stat allocation is finalised, should have a more definite answer. Otherwise, Bloomy is right in that our set pieces don't have spirit on them. Spirit on weapons might be a problem, but we'll have to see later. When WrathCalcs and SimCraft update their stuff with the new gear (as I said requires the gear finalised), I'll start up the normal and heroic BiS lists again.

[mikoslav]

Except mushrooms are baseline, and roar is a dps CHOICE over shockwave or something else. Which makes it situational. You choose it when it will be better; we always have mushrooms. I wouldn't want to see them stronger at the exspense of a longer cooldown; they just need to be more dynamic. To help with our sustained aoedps - something neither the current build of mushroom or dragon roar provide.

how about making moonkin mushrooms similar to resto ones, they would be placed and charged with channeled hurricane/AS, each hurricane cast would double dmg done on detonation.

[huth]

how about making moonkin mushrooms similar to resto ones, they would be placed and charged with channeled hurricane/AS, each hurricane cast would double dmg done on detonation.

*sets down shrooms, channels a few hurricanes, onehits boss*

Exponential growth is fun. Not a very good idea for these mechanics, though. But it would be nice if we could do something with them beyond just blowing them up. Even if it was just cosmetic stuff. (Glyph of the colorful Sporecloud etc.)