[Balance] 5.4 Changes and Thoughts

[Arkamedis]

Hi guys tell me what to do next tier cause I don't PTR or read patch notezzz

Dont be a smart ass. It was a legitimate question or questions to ask, I'm not the first or the last. Kindly shove your head back up your ass and never post again.

Thanks.

Edit: infracted. Please don't flame other users.

[Baltruid]

I am pretty sure it has said many times over that this should be a respectful thread. I know I do not post much, but if you read through this thread, especially the latter portion, you will find the exact answers and more to your questions. It is getting to the end of PTR before 5.4 becomes live so, as it has been asked in the pages you choose not to read, please keep this respectful and constructive for those of us here researching and for trail/error rather than a waste of time while we filter through peoples' misery.

[Stevecow]

"For the new DOC opener:
Pre-pull:
- Healing Touch (10sec)
- AC into Solar (6sec)
- Healing Touch (5sec)
- Starfall + pre-pot (2sec)
- Starsurge... (1sec)

Opener:
- ...Starsurge (on "1" for countdown)
- Wrath until *Trinket Procs*
- Celestial Alignment
- Normal CA playstyle
- Use NS if you don't have the MetaGem+NG up for HT. (With NG: 0.67sec saved) (With Meta: 0.47sec saved) (With Meta+NG: 0.28sec saved)
- Don't use HT if you're going to CA immediately after entering Solar Eclipse :: Have NS up for these moments."

Had a couple questions about this. Why do we begin the fight going into solar eclipse and not lunar like it has been? Also, I thought it was best to use CA at the end of an eclipse or the zero on the bar. I don't see any Incarnation in there. Is that talent going away and if not, will we still be using it at the start of a lunar eclipse or at the start of a solar eclipse with the opener you have? I may have missed this information in all these post but I read a lot of post that has nothing to do with anything other than bickering and I just stopped reading it all.

[Sepe]

Dont be a smart ass. It was a legitimate question or questions to ask, I'm not the first or the last. Kindly shove your head back up your ass and never post again.

Thanks.

Was speaking for myself but thanks for jumping to conclusions. If I was referring to you I would have quoted you. But if you feel it was directed at you then that's your own issue.

[Zareth]

Had a couple questions about this. Why do we begin the fight going into solar eclipse and not lunar like it has been? Also, I thought it was best to use CA at the end of an eclipse or the zero on the bar. I don't see any Incarnation in there. Is that talent going away and if not, will we still be using it at the start of a lunar eclipse or at the start of a solar eclipse with the opener you have? I may have missed this information in all these post but I read a lot of post that has nothing to do with anything other than bickering and I just stopped reading it all.

It depends. With SotF, Inc and FoN all being viable options next tier, it is possible that we might go with SotF + DoC for AoE fights. Numbers aren't set in stone, but it's looking like SotF + DoC will be overall strong AoE, Inc + DoC for good AoE burst and FoN + HotW will be king for single-target.

We have been doing the Solar opener for quite some time now, with popping CA at the start. Not for every fight, of course, but the reasoning behind it is that if you have RPPM trinkets, the meta etc, they will all likely pop within a cast or two at the beginning of an encounter. This will no longer be the case in 5.4, as they are setting the proc rate to 90 seconds when you pull (meaning each RPPM trinket/meta/weapon enchant etc will have a chance to proc equal to not having a proc in 90 seconds).

Also, if you're going with Force of Nature now, you would start in Solar eclipse anyway.

[Gliron]

Also, if you're going with Force of Nature now, you would start in Solar eclipse anyway.

why solar?

[Cyous]

why solar?

To get to Lunar faster for more Starfalls.

[Deleted]

To get to Lunar faster for more Starfalls.

I think his question was more directed to why we would start in solar because of FoN, the answer is that there is no reason for that, the treants wraths does not scale with solar eclipse - the reason is what Cyous says and to fish for all trinkets procs/meta ect in initiate.

[Deleted]

Dont be a smart ass. It was a legitimate question or questions to ask, I'm not the first or the last. Kindly shove your head back up your ass and never post again.

Thanks.

How about reading this and the T16H BiS list threads to get your answers instead of asking about things that have already been discussed.

[Stommped]

Just want to make sure my math is right- DoC adds a flat percentage to Eclipse before any Incarnation bonus is calculated correct? So if an Eclisped Starfire hits for 100k, DoC buffed Starfire would hit for 125k and Incarnation + DoC buffed Starfire would hit for 156,250?

[earthwormjim]

Just want to make sure my math is right- DoC adds a flat percentage to Eclipse before any Incarnation bonus is calculated correct? So if an Eclisped Starfire hits for 100k, DoC buffed Starfire would hit for 125k and Incarnation + DoC buffed Starfire would hit for 156,250?

The order doesn't matter, it's all multiplicative (cumulative property).

(Base dmg)*(Eclipse from mastery bonus)*(Incarnation bonus)*(DoC bonus)

Flip those around any way you want, you'll get the same answer.

[Deleted]

eh no, it adds 25% to the eclipse bonus, not 25% bonus dmg. it's equal to flat mastery rating. If your base eclipse dmg bonus is 50% with doc it would be 75% with doc (which is only a 16,67% dmg increase)

[huth]

The order doesn't matter, it's all multiplicative (cumulative property).

(Base dmg)*(Eclipse from mastery bonus)*(Incarnation bonus)*(DoC bonus)

Flip those around any way you want, you'll get the same answer.

No, it's not, because DoC is additive with Mastery.

[Deleted]

The order doesn't matter, it's all multiplicative (cumulative property).

(Base dmg)*(Eclipse from mastery bonus)*(Incarnation bonus)*(DoC bonus)

Flip those around any way you want, you'll get the same answer.

Better example would be:

Non eclipsed Starfire Hits for 100k. In eclipse, it gets a 50% bonus from your mastery without DoC, let's say. With DoC you'll get a 25% bonus to your eclipse.
For comparison:
Non eclipses SF: 100k
Eclipsed SF: 150k
DoC SF: 175k
Incarnation DoC SF: 218.75k
Incarnation SF: 187.5k

[halfawake]

Soul of the Forest is way too RNG for my liking. Also, DoC needs an indicator for when eclipse is actually buffed. You can move through eclipse so quickly with both DoC and SotF that you sometimes forget to cast ht and don't know if your eclipse is actually buffed, would be nice to see it.

Anyway, with the amount of RNG on SotF I'm not sure I would ever enjoy using it. I sometimes get no procs for 5 eclipse cycles and then get 3 within a single one. RNG might be helped if dots worked toward the proc as well (only application of them not ticks... so it could work well on multi target fights and fix the issue of losing nature's grace uptime..)

[earthwormjim]

No, it's not, because DoC is additive with Mastery.

Hmm you're right, the buff even shows this. My mistake.

[Deleted]

Soul of the Forest is way too RNG for my liking. Also, DoC needs an indicator for when eclipse is actually buffed. You can move through eclipse so quickly with both DoC and SotF that you sometimes forget to cast ht and don't know if your eclipse is actually buffed, would be nice to see it.

Anyway, with the amount of RNG on SotF I'm not sure I would ever enjoy using it. I sometimes get no procs for 5 eclipse cycles and then get 3 within a single one. RNG might be helped if dots worked toward the proc as well (only application of them not ticks... so it could work well on multi target fights and fix the issue of losing nature's grace uptime..)

I fear this very much, i still havent tried it myself but just reading the spell and thinking about these scenarios makes me wonder what fucking moron made this up... this kind of "useless or dumb RNG" is just ridiculously frustrating.

[earthwormjim]

I fear this very much, i still havent tried it myself but just reading the spell and thinking about these scenarios makes me wonder what fucking moron made this up... this kind of "useless or dumb RNG" is just ridiculously frustrating.

If weak auras can display eclipse bonus %, that would be an easy way to tell whether or not your eclipse is buffed.

[Cyous]

...make an Aura that reminds you to cast Healing Touch with an audio and/or visual queue when you reach Direction+Ecplise(-60|60) and be on your way. Add a condition for "if DOC buff is active then \Dont play anything\ " . My DOC is tracked with 2 auras. It's really, really easy to know if I didn't cast Healing Touch yet.

[xtramuscle]

...make an Aura that reminds you to cast Healing Touch with an audio and/or visual queue when you reach Direction+Ecplise(-60|60) and be on your way. Add a condition for "if DOC buff is active then \Dont play anything\ " . My DOC is tracked with 2 auras. It's really, really easy to know if I didn't cast Healing Touch yet.

Surely it would be more efficient to play the audio when meta + ng are active if the doc buff isnt active.