1. #2401
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...2&end=14219782

    You aren't using enough CD's. The vigilance is being applied way too early along with your Last Stand. You are using your SBarriers too early when Vengeance is still low and before it even starts. You also used a SBlock in there which wasted 60 rage. The armour potion does nothing because as was discussed a page back the Blood Rage ignores Armour. You don't use Demo Shout or mention about using it later.

    - You need to coordinate Externals to cover the entire period and make sure they come at the right time. Set up Weakaura or TMW to track these so you know what is on your and how long it has left.

    - Know your own CD's and use them to cover the entire period as well. If you know your raid can kill it before the 2nd Blood Rage then glyph Shield Wall for the extra 20% DR.

    - Use your rage wisely. Go in with close to max rage and use a Barrier after the first hit when you have vengeance.

  2. #2402
    Take 120 Rage Glyph then and pool it up before Blood Rage, although I prefer SW one and just faceroll it. With a huge amount of vengeance you prolly don't need to go for 60r SBars it still will take a lot of damage then just build it up to cover any sec's that will lack a CD or have a weaker one.

  3. #2403
    In my experience you LS and barrier just as he casts first swipe, I enraged regen, the SW, Rooks, Demo, etc to cover most of the space, other warriors do crossover demo/rally/vig (we have 5 in our 25m), other externals as well. More damage mit > dieing. Oh, spam even 20 rage barriers as much as possible. Every bit helps.

    Then after pop all DPS CDs and lol your way to crit heaven.

    Its all about working out how long lasts for and crossing over/ overlapping. The CD process only lasts 20s so don't be afraid to pop the "end CDs" right on the 5s mark.

  4. #2404
    Thanks for the input guys. We downed him last night which was a massive relief. I'm getting the hang of the fight now and it will only get easier with practice.

    @Khorm - The way that you broke down the logs really helped me. It was like a mini tutorial on WL use and allowed me to adapt it for my next fights. Is there a way to save a pin like that so that you can apply it from week to week and not have to reform it for each of the different buffs that you receive? I've got demo shout macroed to my shield slam which is a hang over from normals where survival wasn't an issue an i never needed it to stay alive. To be completely honest i'd forgotten about that and i'll have to unmacro it for the rest of heroic progression. Thanks for bringing that up.

    I've contemplated the SW glyph but we always hit the second blood rage so I prefer to keep the normal SW so that I have it for both fights. We are still dual tanking it as it's easier for everyone to keep us up and as it progresses we will look and single tanking it.

  5. #2405
    The issue for the second tank is that he should still sit at ~+150% damage taken from the 15ish debuffs, so him eating the blood rage along with you isn't something really desirable (outside of vengeance of course). But if he's dead and you can make it work like that every other week i'd just stick to it honestly.

    Getting a second bloodrage is something i'd work on, if you don't have the dps to beat him before that you'll have some serious problems with everything else (except for spoils maybe). And make sure that everyone is playing for execution, not for ranking (ie: Bas & Eshara both dieing to the first bloodrage is no go, similar to three people dieing in the breath and one in a slam).

    Oh and what's about the adds? Did nobody mention that they apply a horrible debuff? Why is your sole ret paladin contributing for 10% of the total damage dealt to them with 20 people dps'ing? http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...e=62&by=target Most of them didn't bother with them at all, only cloak doing their job. He's ahead of a warrior who used three bladestorms over a 5.30 cleave fight (but the cleave trinket, jeez!)

  6. #2406
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    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    The issue for the second tank is that he should still sit at ~+150% damage taken from the 15ish debuffs, so him eating the blood rage along with you isn't something really desirable (outside of vengeance of course). But if he's dead and you can make it work like that every other week i'd just stick to it honestly.
    I did some maths for one of my guilds on this, to prove it, but yeah, you can tell just by looking at the percentages that the basic conclusion is if you have one tank with 0 debuffs and one tank with 15 debuffs tanking the cleaves, the tank with 15 debuffs will actually take MORE damage while sharing it between two people than the tank with 0 debuffs would take ALONE. And then your healers are more stretched because they have two targets to heal instead of one. It's just a bad idea for everyone.

  7. #2407
    @Klausistklaus - We've been so focused on the blood rage and surviving that it looks like we've lost the overview of the fight. I will talk to the RL about it and get them to keep an eye on the DPS spread on the adds. Eshara soaks the blood rage with us to split some of the damage from the tanks. I've no idea why Bas died during it as he's not supposed to be in that position. We are an oceanic server and sometimes we suffer from pretty hectic lag. None of us are under 200ms and some days it spikes up to 400ms for a lot of the guys. The joys of playing from Aus with no Australian servers. That's no excuse really and it may be that Bas just derped it.

    @Kae I'll take all of that into account though and let our Blood DK solo tank with the rogues on the next pull as i will have the stacks and he will be clear going into blood rage.

  8. #2408
    Hey guys,

    Just wondering if someone can look over these logs from tonight; our third kill on siege crafter and I finally feel comfortable with the fight. I went over the logs myself (from the little I know how to learn from them ) and compared myself to my RL's old guild's prot war. Theres a huge gear difference, i believe he is 587 or something similar but i figured its a good thing to compare (our fight lengths were like exactly the same length ) and we are also both in 25man guilds.


    Heres my armory for reference- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...eavåge/simple


    My logs from tonight: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...G#type=summary
    and his logs from their farm on Tuesday :http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...1&type=summary

    I THINK my main issue was not devastating enough which made me have less hold the line uptime which meant less shieldslam.....i know bad right? but looking to where if theres anything i can improve on


    thankyou!

  9. #2409
    Unfortunately you're in fury gear, so nothing to say on your gear

    Your deep wounds uptime is 81% compared to his 97%, so that could be improved. He's definitely using devastate more, about 2x as much, and yes he did 33% more shiled slams than you. It also looks like he kept more vengeance uptime, 99% compared to your 92%. He used Heroic Strike much more, which means he probably wasn't as worried about surviving as you were so he had the rage to dump.

    I don't see any damage from Bloodbath, are you taking Avatar instead? I tend to go for Bloodbath since it lines up with Dragon Roar perfectly.

  10. #2410
    DERP! I totally forgot I had been messing around with some of my OS gear last night. Ill be sure to log out in the correct gear so by the time this is read it should be fixed.

    And yeah I've been taking avatar because I was struggling quite a bit getting the add down prior to DFA and being able to execute it and get back to the boss for the fourth stack. Im sure with being more comfortable with the fight I'll mess around with the talents some more although I was under the impression that storm bolt was the better choice but i could be completely wrong.


    And yeah it was kind of a moment of clarity las night when comparing the logs- I knew the mechanics of devastate-->more slams but i guess it didn't click until i saw the differences in casts- so I will definitely be working on that as a priority

    Also the vengeance difference- is that just me taking too long to get back to the boss and my vengeance falling off vs him getting back faster and maintaining the vengeance? Im assuming thats exactly what it means.


    one last question regarding how you typically handle the adds on H-SC; what percent are you able to get the add down to before DFA (assuming only 3 stacks of electrostatic?) Do you pop both BB and DR after DFA or use BB to help knock its health down before DFA?


    Thanks for looking into these for me! much appreciated
    Last edited by Lanorala; 2014-08-01 at 10:02 PM.

  11. #2411
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanorala View Post
    Also the vengeance difference- is that just me taking too long to get back to the boss and my vengeance falling off vs him getting back faster and maintaining the vengeance? Im assuming thats exactly what it means.
    He is probably also making better use of intervene/safeguard while you're tanking to keep his vengeance up.\

    Use Bloodbath before DFA to help knock his HP down since it'll only live like 3 globals after DFA.

  12. #2412
    Just use Bloodbath on the boss, no need for it on the shredder. Shield Slam/HS + Execute/HS gets it down.

    Why is it taking you so long to get back to the boss? You should be taking him just outside of healing range and then charge will do the rest.

    If you aren't press Devastate when SS and Rev are on CD then what are you pressing?

  13. #2413
    hmmm. I have yet to master the ways of killing it without CD's- even with resonating power glyph I still feel my slams aren't hitting it hard enough but maybe thats just me. It's also probably taking me so long to get back to the boss since like I said I sometimes struggle with killing the add after DFA (sometimes a poorly timed SB wears off while he's in the air so my SS isn't buffed) so that could be why.

    And i think out of habit I've been using proc'd heroic strikes just because previously i didn't put two and two together that devastate was what I should have been prioritizing for increased DPS (more devastates could= more SS's!) but i'll definitely try to work on this tomorrow and Monday.

    I'll also have to start working on using intervene better you're right :P thanks again !

  14. #2414
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanorala View Post
    And i think out of habit I've been using proc'd heroic strikes just because previously i didn't put two and two together that devastate was what I should have been prioritizing for increased DPS (more devastates could= more SS's!) but i'll definitely try to work on this tomorrow and Monday.
    What do you mean by that? Heroic strikes don't have a conflict with devastate. Devastate is the lowest priority button, so there is only one way of not using it enough: having empty GCDs.

  15. #2415
    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    having empty GCDs.
    that there is probably my issue. ill be working to improve it

  16. #2416
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    How big of a difference is the TMI values ? Like say 87k to 90k ?
    And why doesn't any of the options model vengeance to how it is on live ?
    I either get 140k or 500k :s

    Has anyone simmed BS vs DR for ST, utilizing it in a similar fashion to fury/arms ? Big difference in dps ? (tired of DR and would like to scrap it completely, if its a negligible difference)

  17. #2417
    BS on single target is lower than simply using devastates in the globals instead. One of the reasons as to why it works for Fury / Arms is that they have open globals and some leeway in regards to when to use things, prot has neither.
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  18. #2418
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    Yeh, i know. I asked how big the difference was ? I just like bladestorm and the small pause it provides is nice

    I truly hate math and suck at it.
    For simplicity, lets assume 3x devastates vs 4 ticks of bs, 5 if i delay SS by 0.5 sec

    Hitting the dummy unbuffed my dev seem to average 50k with my bladestorm ticks at 30k.
    So 150k vs 120k or 150k vs 150k if i delay SS. Thats only 150k damage over a 5-6 minute fight.

    I have no idea how to factor in vengeance levels, snb procs, rev procs etc etc, whats why i come to ask.
    It looks negligible at first but i honestly have no idea

  19. #2419
    Well, using Bladestorm is worse that simply leaving the talent point unspent. And it only gets worse with more vengeance. Math will probably say that spending the point on BS or not spending it is more or less equal, but not using DR for single target is sizeable. If no one does the fine math for it, I will throw a 4% of damage lost in DR vs BS in single target. Don't think it will too far away from that. If we are talking about "unoptimizing", we don't really need decimals, don't we?

    Having 90k instead of 87k TMI means that you could get spiked for 90% of your health instead of for 87% of it.

  20. #2420
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    Thats perfect, all i wanted to know. No need for decimals, had no idea the gap was that large. Gonna stick with DR :P
    Thanks for clarifying tmi aswell <3

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