1. #2441
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie21 View Post
    That is incorrect. Thats only a theoretical value you gain IF riposte is up a 100% of the time. Show me a fight where this is possible. It's a rare commodity.
    Even if you one tank fights you will have riposte downtimes because of fight mechanics. Two tanking encounters increases downtimes even more.
    So are you reforging the dodge to parry or to crit? I'm assuming crit since you bring up riposte having an uptime (and make no mention of it in your original post), and a HWF 4/4 Jugg's gives you 1.8% crit if reforged to crit (and another 2.035 with riposte up). Should honestly specify that you're reforging to crit over parry (the probably more common reforge).

    Again you seem to not pay attention to what i wrote. My point was (still is) being crit capped even before the inital stack. You are trying to show me someone can be capped within the proc. Thats out of question.

    So where is your point ? Trying hard to prove that i am wrong ? I dont get it.
    What Protection Warrior is running around with 79% crit? That's the crit cap for white attacks (103% for specials). So you're telling me that there's a Prot Warrior somewhere that's crit capped before riposte (which is probably impossible, 22k crit rating gives you around 36.67% crit. You would need 44.4k crit rating to reach 74% crit before the 5% buff), unless you were factoring in Recklessness in there.

    For reference, Skeer's has an average uptime of 17.33% (1.13*0.92*10/60). So before you get all angry and upset because I was pointing out information that you were obviously lacking in your posts (or making large assumptions by leaving that information out), perhaps being more upfront and communicating what you are referring to would cause less issues for you in the future.



  2. #2442
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    One small point Moxie. 100% log uptime is irrelevant for vengance/riposte. It only matters in relation to time on the boss anyway. So if you can't DPS during a phase, but don't have riposte up during that phase as a result, it is irrelevant.

    It's like Fury enrage. It doesn't matter if it isn't near 100%, as long as its up when you are actually DPSing.

    You need to consider, and may have in fact done so, more than simply the log numbers.

  3. #2443
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    One small point Moxie. 100% log uptime is irrelevant for vengance/riposte. It only matters in relation to time on the boss anyway. So if you can't DPS during a phase, but don't have riposte up during that phase as a result, it is irrelevant.

    It's like Fury enrage. It doesn't matter if it isn't near 100%, as long as its up when you are actually DPSing.

    You need to consider, and may have in fact done so, more than simply the log numbers.
    Thats what i tried to explain to promdates...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Promdates View Post
    So are you reforging the dodge to parry or to crit? I'm assuming crit since you bring up riposte having an uptime (and make no mention of it in your original post), and a HWF 4/4 Jugg's gives you 1.8% crit if reforged to crit (and another 2.035 with riposte up). Should honestly specify that you're reforging to crit over parry (the probably more common reforge).
    it does not matter which way i reforge. All that matters is reading what i wrote and not stating that i wrote something that i did not. Maybe trying to understand what i wrote os also important.

    But if youd like to know: i dont wear that trinket at all. In the beginning i liked it alot (when everybody else was flaming me because they said the trinket is crap) The reforge to parry was just great for an avoidance spec. As i said nowadays a would not wear it anymore. There are better trinkets to use.

    But i wrote that already. Just read my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Promdates View Post
    What Protection Warrior is running around with 79% crit? That's the crit cap for white attacks (103% for specials). So you're telling me that there's a Prot Warrior somewhere that's crit capped before riposte (which is probably impossible, 22k crit rating gives you around 36.67% crit. You would need 44.4k crit rating to reach 74% crit before the 5% buff), unless you were factoring in Recklessness in there.
    I don't tell you anything. Believe what you want to believe. If you think its not ok to play with alot of crit. Do it your way.

    All i said is that Skeers' the best DPS trinket out there crit wise. And it doesnt matter if you are crit capped or not. AND that it is possible to be crit capped even before the Skeer proc. Again you are writing i did wrote that this is possible without riposte. I never said that.

    You have a big problem. Read what i write. Try to understand. And after that answer to my posts or ask me a question. I will try to explain you the best way i can if i have the feeling you actually start listening.

    I am not the allpro-theoretican and i dont have the motiviation to be one. Because my playstyle seems good enough comared to others when i look at rankings and logs. I do think i know 1 or 2 things about playing prot and doing some dmg with it.

  4. #2444
    1) The info that Darkfiend posted was already known by me, you made no mention towards it to me. Try again.
    2) If you are giving out information, it's pretty important to specify which reforge you are using for it. Saying that reforging Jugg's gives you 1.x% crit is wrong UNLESS you are reforging to crit (which you did not mention, but whatever).
    3) You're right, there are better trinkets to wear than Jugg's. This has no part of any of the posts we've directed towards each other.
    4) If you can reach 79% crit with base crit and riposte, then grats. Show us, prove me wrong.
    5) I never said that people shouldn't play with a lot of crit, many people gear for crit.
    6) Not arguing that Skeer's isn't one of the best dps trinkets to wear, that's probably why I've been wearing a 4/4 HWF for a long time.
    7) Again, show me wrong that you can get 79% crit

    Either way, I'm done with this. All I was trying to do, was point out that you failed to include valuable information regarding what you posted. THAT'S ALL THIS CAME FROM.



  5. #2445
    Quote Originally Posted by Promdates View Post
    1) The info that Darkfiend posted was already known by me, you made no mention towards it to me. Try again.
    2) If you are giving out information, it's pretty important to specify which reforge you are using for it. Saying that reforging Jugg's gives you 1.x% crit is wrong UNLESS you are reforging to crit (which you did not mention, but whatever).
    3) You're right, there are better trinkets to wear than Jugg's. This has no part of any of the posts we've directed towards each other.
    4) If you can reach 79% crit with base crit and riposte, then grats. Show us, prove me wrong.
    5) I never said that people shouldn't play with a lot of crit, many people gear for crit.
    6) Not arguing that Skeer's isn't one of the best dps trinkets to wear, that's probably why I've been wearing a 4/4 HWF for a long time.
    7) Again, show me wrong that you can get 79% crit

    Either way, I'm done with this. All I was trying to do, was point out that you failed to include valuable information regarding what you posted. THAT'S ALL THIS CAME FROM.
    I failed. You are right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaflare View Post
    Hey guys, does anyone make sure of a shield barrier weakaura that shows the predicted shield absorb amount based on current vengeance? I've looked all over and the only thing I've come up with is strings that show the absorb amount currently left. I know it's possible because I've seen screenshots but I've turned up nothing when it comes to strings.
    I never had use for that kind of aura so, sorry cant help with an wa.
    But maybe this addon can help (till you get your wa): http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/protwarbar

    PS: I dont use that addon. Just did a quick google-search.
    Last edited by Moxie21; 2014-08-05 at 11:05 PM.

  6. #2446
    Quote Originally Posted by Promdates View Post
    7) Again, show me wrong that you can get 79% crit
    I haven't looked back at where this discussion started from but just for the laugh I went and tried to get as much Crit% as possible while disregarding common sense and it came out at 81.79% buffed unless I'm totally off with something which is probably true.

    This is with Riposte up and without procs like Windsong or River's Song or cooldowns like Recklessness. This is with Crit Supression taken into account.

    Using DPS Legendary Meta, DPS Cloak, 200 Crit Food, Elixir of Mirrors + Mad Hozen Elixir, Primordius' Talisman of Rage + Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal, Avenger's Trillium Waistplate and the rest 588 Parry/Dodge > Crit/X Gear. With BS and JC as professions. The Dodge reforged into Crit and the X Stat of the Crit/X gear reforged into Parry.


    With this you are going to be 14.5% off Exp cap and 3.06% off Hit cap so you would be quite short of 79% if you were to meet these caps.


    Again, napkin math just for fun.
    Last edited by Cloudwolfe; 2014-08-06 at 12:27 AM.

  7. #2447
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudwolfe View Post
    I haven't looked back at where this discussion started from but just for the laugh I went and tried to get as much Crit% as possible while disregarding common sense and it came out at 81.79% buffed unless I'm totally off with something which is probably true.

    This is with Riposte up and without procs like Windsong or River's Song or cooldowns like Recklessness. This is with Crit Supression taken into account.

    Using DPS Legendary Meta, DPS Cloak, 200 Crit Food, Elixir of Mirrors + Mad Hozen Elixir, Primordius' Talisman of Rage + Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal, Avenger's Trillium Waistplate and the rest 588 Parry/Dodge > Crit/X Gear. With BS and JC as professions. The Dodge reforged into Crit and the X Stat of the Crit/X gear reforged into Parry.


    With this you are going to be 14.5% off Exp cap and 3.06% off Hit cap so you would be quite short of 79% if you were to meet these caps.


    Again, napkin math just for fun.
    Nice try but wrong gear selection.

    But of course you will swap def gear with offensive parts where it is reasonable to achieve crit capping. Playing with full def gear especially after the 4/4 itemupgrade is just a waste of stats.

  8. #2448
    What is def gear?

  9. #2449
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie21 View Post
    Nice try but wrong gear selection.

    But of course you will swap def gear with offensive parts where it is reasonable to achieve crit capping. Playing with full def gear especially after the 4/4 itemupgrade is just a waste of stats.
    I don't know what you are referring to when you say "def gear" but Parry/Dodge gives more Crit than Crit/anything when it comes to secondary stats on gear with Riposte.

    An ungemmed Rage-Blind Greathelm (1802 Parry/1082 Dodge into 720 Crit) will give an effective 2883 Crit Rating.
    An ungemmed Helm of the Night Watchman (1968 Crit/912 Haste into 608 Parry) will give an effective 2424 Crit Rating.

  10. #2450
    Maybe we can reduce the whole discussion to the following mindset.

    >> Jugg actually gives you 1.94% for the RF 0/4 version ((1552*.75)/600) to ((2714*.75)/600) 3.39 for a 4/4 HWF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie21 View Post
    That is incorrect. Thats only a theoretical value you gain IF riposte is up a 100% of the time. Show me a fight where this is possible. It's a rare commodity. Even if you one tank fights you will have riposte downtimes because of fight mechanics. Two tanking encounters increases downtimes even more.


    I read multiple times about the advantage of 4/4 upgrades regarding gear choices but you seem to forget to mention the more relevant part about it: bosses die SUPER fast. You can ignore most mechanics when your raid has the instance on farm for half a year, use one tanke instead of two (three) and more.

    Immerseus: gimmick fight after all, if you leave some adds up beating on you riposte won't run out but it doesn't matter after all
    Protectors: one tank, riposte 100%
    Norushen: riposte might be down when you're in the other world, else you can just tank him all the time
    Sha of Pride: 90ish % uptime possible with intervene, IJ trinket would still be at over 3% theoretical crit. We made a different approach from the very beginning and just had one tank eat all his stacks while the stronger one dps'ed him netting 100% riposte all time.
    Galakras: 100% uptime as long as you're tanking, the faster your raid the more uptime between waves (but more baseline crit won't help you then either)
    IJ: 100% uptime with a fast raid, if your team is to slow more baseline crit will help you for the first time out of six bosses
    Shamans: 100% uptime
    Nazgrim: 100% uptime
    Malkorok: 100% uptime if your team is really fast (read: kill him before first bloodrage), else you'll have some downtime point taken
    Spoils: 100% uptime while tanking
    Thok: 90%+ uptime, you just leave the jailer up as long as possible which further helps your raid with dps'ing the boss
    Siegewiper: 100% uptime, just eat all the stacks *nomnom*
    Klaxxi: 100% uptime
    Garrosh: 100% uptime while tanking (outside of cutscenes etc.)

    So that's (Sha,) Thok and if your raid isn't that fast IJ & Malkorok. Not to many and clearly not enough to prove your point, imho. While all those examples are the prime ones and require some clever use of mechanics it should be only fair when we're talking about maximum dps, shouldn't it?
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2014-08-06 at 10:20 AM.

  11. #2451
    The Patient
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    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7Hv4K6MNBaJRykrX

    How to improve my dps? Without reforging mastery/dodge into crit.

  12. #2452
    Are you kiting adds in normal?

  13. #2453
    Quote Originally Posted by Karjis View Post
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7Hv4K6MNBaJRykrX

    How to improve my dps? Without reforging mastery/dodge into crit.
    -> Use off cloak & off meta gem.
    -> You are using far to less shield slam. 9 minutes fight -> 90 Slams minimum
    -> USE Execute! Prio inside Execute-phase is: SS > Execute. If too few rage use revenge but only then - everything on cd safe battleshout for that situation.
    -> Thunderclap glyph is a must. As is Heavy Repercussions & HtL.
    -> makro DR and BB and use it ! (p1 into adds after that on cd)
    -> 3 rogues an only 1 tricks at the pull is bad. make a rota and have them tricks you on cd
    -> use Skeers Trinket (you use thoks already which is a great choice. combine it with skeers.)

    With the right timing in p1 (DPS cds on adds) and maximizing SS and execute in p2 you should aim at 1.2-1.3 m dps in p1 (two add waves) and 1.1m dps in p2. I once had 1.5 m in p1 but that was when the second wave of adds was living too long.

    Your gear:
    -> Wrists: Dodge enchant
    -> use off Str/Crit shoulder enchant
    -> chest: all stats
    -> boots: +hit
    -> You have too much parry. DR is too hard on you. go up with dodge a bit.
    -> never ever reforge into mastery. If you decided to play avoidance then do it. Don't combine builds.

    Thats it for the beginning. Hope it helps. Good luck!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudwolfe View Post
    I don't know what you are referring to when you say "def gear" but Parry/Dodge gives more Crit than Crit/anything when it comes to secondary stats on gear with Riposte.

    An ungemmed Rage-Blind Greathelm (1802 Parry/1082 Dodge into 720 Crit) will give an effective 2883 Crit Rating.
    An ungemmed Helm of the Night Watchman (1968 Crit/912 Haste into 608 Parry) will give an effective 2424 Crit Rating.
    Def gear has defensive stats on it. Off gear has offensive stats on it ...................

    Treads of Unchained Hate http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/105414
    or
    Greaves of sub. Superiority http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/105478

    What gives more crit ?


    I could argue against rage bling Greathelm because the one from Garrosh is way better regarding crit. Like i could argue against every Dodge/Parry item compared with an Exp/Crit item or an Hit/Crit item. The latter are always superior when it comes to pure crit value.

    You ask why? Its just the opposit reason all classes gem Exp so they can reforge into their best second stat on items: You wear exp items so you are able to gem more crit. Compared to an item which has Dodge/parry where you can reforge only one stat into crit you lose alot of expertise which you have to get back throu gemming or reforging other items. Which in the end will net you fewer crit.

    But i wont go too far. Because rigth now i dont like the way of the discussion. That is not meant because of your post or against you. Its just the way people act regarding my posts.

    If people have another opinion its one thing to post your opinion. Another thing is to turn things around like promdates does just to put himself into a better light. Or other who make a joke out of what i said.

    See i posted here because someone had a question about best DPS trinkets and i answered it. We all argeed i posted the right trinket. If you all feel that wearing def gear is way better for dps then wearing crit based gear - your choice.

    Go on, play on and have fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Maybe we can reduce the whole discussion to the following mindset.

    >> Jugg actually gives you 1.94% for the RF 0/4 version ((1552*.75)/600) to ((2714*.75)/600) 3.39 for a 4/4 HWF.


    I read multiple times about the advantage of 4/4 upgrades regarding gear choices but you seem to forget to mention the more relevant part about it: bosses die SUPER fast. You can ignore most mechanics when your raid has the instance on farm for half a year, use one tanke instead of two (three) and more.

    Immerseus: gimmick fight after all, if you leave some adds up beating on you riposte won't run out but it doesn't matter after all
    Protectors: one tank, riposte 100%
    Norushen: riposte might be down when you're in the other world, else you can just tank him all the time
    Sha of Pride: 90ish % uptime possible with intervene, IJ trinket would still be at over 3% theoretical crit. We made a different approach from the very beginning and just had one tank eat all his stacks while the stronger one dps'ed him netting 100% riposte all time.
    Galakras: 100% uptime as long as you're tanking, the faster your raid the more uptime between waves (but more baseline crit won't help you then either)
    IJ: 100% uptime with a fast raid, if your team is to slow more baseline crit will help you for the first time out of six bosses
    Shamans: 100% uptime
    Nazgrim: 100% uptime
    Malkorok: 100% uptime if your team is really fast (read: kill him before first bloodrage), else you'll have some downtime point taken
    Spoils: 100% uptime while tanking
    Thok: 90%+ uptime, you just leave the jailer up as long as possible which further helps your raid with dps'ing the boss
    Siegewiper: 100% uptime, just eat all the stacks *nomnom*
    Klaxxi: 100% uptime
    Garrosh: 100% uptime while tanking (outside of cutscenes etc.)

    So that's (Sha,) Thok and if your raid isn't that fast IJ & Malkorok. Not to many and clearly not enough to prove your point, imho. While all those examples are the prime ones and require some clever use of mechanics it should be only fair when we're talking about maximum dps, shouldn't it?
    I know all of that. Its just the discussion was about something else. But (with most points) you are right.

    A tactics tailored for maximizing tank dps (with vengeance mechanics in mind) is always better then maximizing your gear stats and with that playing for example with three tanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    What is def gear?
    Def gear has defensive stats. Go figure!
    Last edited by Moxie21; 2014-08-07 at 03:46 AM.

  14. #2454
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie21 View Post
    You ask why? Its just the opposit reason all classes gem Exp so they can reforge into their best second stat on items: You wear exp items so you are able to gem more crit. Compared to an item which has Dodge/parry where you can reforge only one stat into crit you lose alot of expertise which you have to get back throu gemming or reforging other items. Which in the end will net you fewer crit.
    If you go back and reread his post, you'll notice he was ignoring Exp/Hit in favor of reaching as high crit% as possible with Riposte up. In that scenario, avoidance pieces will give you more crit than crit/x pieces in nearly every slot.

    It's obviously not a suggestion for how to gear, just something done for fun.

  15. #2455
    Quote Originally Posted by Toroq View Post
    If you go back and reread his post, you'll notice he was ignoring Exp/Hit in favor of reaching as high crit% as possible with Riposte up. In that scenario, avoidance pieces will give you more crit than crit/x pieces in nearly every slot.

    It's obviously not a suggestion for how to gear, just something done for fun.
    I know and i fully understood.
    Its just not the right way to ignore Exp/Hit dmg wise.

  16. #2456
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaflare View Post
    Hey guys, does anyone make sure of a shield barrier weakaura that shows the predicted shield absorb amount based on current vengeance? I've looked all over and the only thing I've come up with is strings that show the absorb amount currently left. I know it's possible because I've seen screenshots but I've turned up nothing when it comes to strings.
    SlamAndAwe does the trick for me.

  17. #2457
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaflare View Post
    Hey guys, does anyone make sure of a shield barrier weakaura that shows the predicted shield absorb amount based on current vengeance? I've looked all over and the only thing I've come up with is strings that show the absorb amount currently left. I know it's possible because I've seen screenshots but I've turned up nothing when it comes to strings.
    Try this string In Weakaura di02eaGifPlHuQgLs6ukLvPI6vkaZcjULcQDPq1VOskdJOCmK0YqQEMcIPHuY1ue2McsFtbQXPi6Dkr3drAFiLYbjI fQcpKkjMivs1fvGCsvKvsKUjIyNQs)uH0qriwkcEQOPc0vPs8vfqZvHYEH(lIAWKomHftL6XaMSs1LPSzP6ZkQrJqD AHEncPzl42QIDtv)wkdNkwUk9CqtxY1vvBxj8DKIXRqCEIQ1tLK2pQrQiiMrmp5l72fa2yNaAE4yr)cYqIJwyNSSbJ jet6JlB8bJ5dM7yUJGyoYO9o0k8DyQuNatGpSApG2ifM9VhOIn)6glLvwzL1qdqey1TaAuy1Pbp(9ofw928XV3zLuw DXhljvjaikrA0y31PobHC7oDBjlLvwzL1qdqey16DdOIlmwjLv3cOX6ay1Pbp(9oRdGvVnF879LSuwzLvwdnarGv3c OLGeOWkSevcsGcRon4XV3tqcuy1BZh)EpbjWkPS6IpwzjQ1PobHC7oLc1TLSuwzLvwdnarGv3cOLGsiHcRWsujOesO WQtdE879eucjuy1BZh)EpbLqcRKYQl(yLLOwN6eeYT7ukdzBjlLvwzL1qdqey1PrJDzLuwDXhlI0OXURtDcc52D62s wkRSYkRXoRRonASlR0gPSouzBSweBEwkRSYkRSYkRSET6F9S2dT2D9rmYk9ZRwVBavCHn8kSevcs4m9TnkSclrLGsi 5m9XNyBBjlLvwzLvlanwkRSYkRSYkRSET6F9S2dT2D9rmYk9ZRwVBavCHn8kSevcs4m9TnkSclrLGsi5m9XNy78QtJ g76Adv222swkRSYkRMFNLA(DmLpAVdTcFhMoDzyw348SDrqml5ogMWsuFiMFVTW8fMIF1W0wy(ctjavS5z1fOWDWW8 dnYFFSWdm)qJm0XcHxXJHhyc8Hv7HmXXDdZk(y7ycDSq4v8y4lvQ0LrRjXctIT4mXf(oPmmdnXocI5hAK92c7IUXe6 yaiiMWOFoy47qWcZp0ideeqiEG5TfmeeZNFOIiiwyH5hAKHogaEGjqqaHiiMWOFoyyoqjeiCAucy(8dvebXCGsiq40 OeWdSWcZp0id0EClk8aZp0i7fpg6glm7nFLrx1WxQtG5Ee6eeYZsaquiM0oaMxBo28GYDmmJanpMXDmZdXftAI7fX4 7KYWuSVhRyZlcKRBCE2Uqeelm9)hWBCE2Uq8LkMFFDJZZ2fbXe6yHWR4XWxQuPlJwtIfM7rOtqi)eqZJ5jFz3UaWg7 eqZdhtI7yiwYj76w387yclbarHePf9fMUYGEbhebSWCb(sLwuLHfIa

  18. #2458
    The Patient
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    Any1 got custom lua script to make the Shield barrier absorb amount 130,000 or 130k not 130000

  19. #2459
    Hi all, another question for the people who know warrior stuff better than I. Would 10m heroic garrosh be easier to SOLO tank with an avoidance build or a mastery build? Specifically the 2nd and 3rd phases where the stacks are building up. thanks in advance.

  20. #2460
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    Quote Originally Posted by beat View Post
    Hi all, another question for the people who know warrior stuff better than I. Would 10m heroic garrosh be easier to SOLO tank with an avoidance build or a mastery build? Specifically the 2nd and 3rd phases where the stacks are building up. thanks in advance.
    Avoidance build.

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