1. #2441
    Quote Originally Posted by Promdates View Post
    7) Again, show me wrong that you can get 79% crit
    I haven't looked back at where this discussion started from but just for the laugh I went and tried to get as much Crit% as possible while disregarding common sense and it came out at 81.79% buffed unless I'm totally off with something which is probably true.

    This is with Riposte up and without procs like Windsong or River's Song or cooldowns like Recklessness. This is with Crit Supression taken into account.

    Using DPS Legendary Meta, DPS Cloak, 200 Crit Food, Elixir of Mirrors + Mad Hozen Elixir, Primordius' Talisman of Rage + Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal, Avenger's Trillium Waistplate and the rest 588 Parry/Dodge > Crit/X Gear. With BS and JC as professions. The Dodge reforged into Crit and the X Stat of the Crit/X gear reforged into Parry.


    With this you are going to be 14.5% off Exp cap and 3.06% off Hit cap so you would be quite short of 79% if you were to meet these caps.


    Again, napkin math just for fun.
    Last edited by Cloudwolfe; 2014-08-06 at 12:27 AM.

  2. #2442
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudwolfe View Post
    I haven't looked back at where this discussion started from but just for the laugh I went and tried to get as much Crit% as possible while disregarding common sense and it came out at 81.79% buffed unless I'm totally off with something which is probably true.

    This is with Riposte up and without procs like Windsong or River's Song or cooldowns like Recklessness. This is with Crit Supression taken into account.

    Using DPS Legendary Meta, DPS Cloak, 200 Crit Food, Elixir of Mirrors + Mad Hozen Elixir, Primordius' Talisman of Rage + Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal, Avenger's Trillium Waistplate and the rest 588 Parry/Dodge > Crit/X Gear. With BS and JC as professions. The Dodge reforged into Crit and the X Stat of the Crit/X gear reforged into Parry.


    With this you are going to be 14.5% off Exp cap and 3.06% off Hit cap so you would be quite short of 79% if you were to meet these caps.


    Again, napkin math just for fun.
    Nice try but wrong gear selection.

    But of course you will swap def gear with offensive parts where it is reasonable to achieve crit capping. Playing with full def gear especially after the 4/4 itemupgrade is just a waste of stats.

  3. #2443
    What is def gear?

  4. #2444
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie21 View Post
    Nice try but wrong gear selection.

    But of course you will swap def gear with offensive parts where it is reasonable to achieve crit capping. Playing with full def gear especially after the 4/4 itemupgrade is just a waste of stats.
    I don't know what you are referring to when you say "def gear" but Parry/Dodge gives more Crit than Crit/anything when it comes to secondary stats on gear with Riposte.

    An ungemmed Rage-Blind Greathelm (1802 Parry/1082 Dodge into 720 Crit) will give an effective 2883 Crit Rating.
    An ungemmed Helm of the Night Watchman (1968 Crit/912 Haste into 608 Parry) will give an effective 2424 Crit Rating.

  5. #2445
    Maybe we can reduce the whole discussion to the following mindset.

    >> Jugg actually gives you 1.94% for the RF 0/4 version ((1552*.75)/600) to ((2714*.75)/600) 3.39 for a 4/4 HWF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie21 View Post
    That is incorrect. Thats only a theoretical value you gain IF riposte is up a 100% of the time. Show me a fight where this is possible. It's a rare commodity. Even if you one tank fights you will have riposte downtimes because of fight mechanics. Two tanking encounters increases downtimes even more.


    I read multiple times about the advantage of 4/4 upgrades regarding gear choices but you seem to forget to mention the more relevant part about it: bosses die SUPER fast. You can ignore most mechanics when your raid has the instance on farm for half a year, use one tanke instead of two (three) and more.

    Immerseus: gimmick fight after all, if you leave some adds up beating on you riposte won't run out but it doesn't matter after all
    Protectors: one tank, riposte 100%
    Norushen: riposte might be down when you're in the other world, else you can just tank him all the time
    Sha of Pride: 90ish % uptime possible with intervene, IJ trinket would still be at over 3% theoretical crit. We made a different approach from the very beginning and just had one tank eat all his stacks while the stronger one dps'ed him netting 100% riposte all time.
    Galakras: 100% uptime as long as you're tanking, the faster your raid the more uptime between waves (but more baseline crit won't help you then either)
    IJ: 100% uptime with a fast raid, if your team is to slow more baseline crit will help you for the first time out of six bosses
    Shamans: 100% uptime
    Nazgrim: 100% uptime
    Malkorok: 100% uptime if your team is really fast (read: kill him before first bloodrage), else you'll have some downtime point taken
    Spoils: 100% uptime while tanking
    Thok: 90%+ uptime, you just leave the jailer up as long as possible which further helps your raid with dps'ing the boss
    Siegewiper: 100% uptime, just eat all the stacks *nomnom*
    Klaxxi: 100% uptime
    Garrosh: 100% uptime while tanking (outside of cutscenes etc.)

    So that's (Sha,) Thok and if your raid isn't that fast IJ & Malkorok. Not to many and clearly not enough to prove your point, imho. While all those examples are the prime ones and require some clever use of mechanics it should be only fair when we're talking about maximum dps, shouldn't it?
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2014-08-06 at 10:20 AM.

  6. #2446
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    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7Hv4K6MNBaJRykrX

    How to improve my dps? Without reforging mastery/dodge into crit.

  7. #2447
    Are you kiting adds in normal?

  8. #2448
    Quote Originally Posted by Karjis View Post
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7Hv4K6MNBaJRykrX

    How to improve my dps? Without reforging mastery/dodge into crit.
    -> Use off cloak & off meta gem.
    -> You are using far to less shield slam. 9 minutes fight -> 90 Slams minimum
    -> USE Execute! Prio inside Execute-phase is: SS > Execute. If too few rage use revenge but only then - everything on cd safe battleshout for that situation.
    -> Thunderclap glyph is a must. As is Heavy Repercussions & HtL.
    -> makro DR and BB and use it ! (p1 into adds after that on cd)
    -> 3 rogues an only 1 tricks at the pull is bad. make a rota and have them tricks you on cd
    -> use Skeers Trinket (you use thoks already which is a great choice. combine it with skeers.)

    With the right timing in p1 (DPS cds on adds) and maximizing SS and execute in p2 you should aim at 1.2-1.3 m dps in p1 (two add waves) and 1.1m dps in p2. I once had 1.5 m in p1 but that was when the second wave of adds was living too long.

    Your gear:
    -> Wrists: Dodge enchant
    -> use off Str/Crit shoulder enchant
    -> chest: all stats
    -> boots: +hit
    -> You have too much parry. DR is too hard on you. go up with dodge a bit.
    -> never ever reforge into mastery. If you decided to play avoidance then do it. Don't combine builds.

    Thats it for the beginning. Hope it helps. Good luck!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudwolfe View Post
    I don't know what you are referring to when you say "def gear" but Parry/Dodge gives more Crit than Crit/anything when it comes to secondary stats on gear with Riposte.

    An ungemmed Rage-Blind Greathelm (1802 Parry/1082 Dodge into 720 Crit) will give an effective 2883 Crit Rating.
    An ungemmed Helm of the Night Watchman (1968 Crit/912 Haste into 608 Parry) will give an effective 2424 Crit Rating.
    Def gear has defensive stats on it. Off gear has offensive stats on it ...................

    Treads of Unchained Hate http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/105414
    or
    Greaves of sub. Superiority http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/105478

    What gives more crit ?


    I could argue against rage bling Greathelm because the one from Garrosh is way better regarding crit. Like i could argue against every Dodge/Parry item compared with an Exp/Crit item or an Hit/Crit item. The latter are always superior when it comes to pure crit value.

    You ask why? Its just the opposit reason all classes gem Exp so they can reforge into their best second stat on items: You wear exp items so you are able to gem more crit. Compared to an item which has Dodge/parry where you can reforge only one stat into crit you lose alot of expertise which you have to get back throu gemming or reforging other items. Which in the end will net you fewer crit.

    But i wont go too far. Because rigth now i dont like the way of the discussion. That is not meant because of your post or against you. Its just the way people act regarding my posts.

    If people have another opinion its one thing to post your opinion. Another thing is to turn things around like promdates does just to put himself into a better light. Or other who make a joke out of what i said.

    See i posted here because someone had a question about best DPS trinkets and i answered it. We all argeed i posted the right trinket. If you all feel that wearing def gear is way better for dps then wearing crit based gear - your choice.

    Go on, play on and have fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    Maybe we can reduce the whole discussion to the following mindset.

    >> Jugg actually gives you 1.94% for the RF 0/4 version ((1552*.75)/600) to ((2714*.75)/600) 3.39 for a 4/4 HWF.


    I read multiple times about the advantage of 4/4 upgrades regarding gear choices but you seem to forget to mention the more relevant part about it: bosses die SUPER fast. You can ignore most mechanics when your raid has the instance on farm for half a year, use one tanke instead of two (three) and more.

    Immerseus: gimmick fight after all, if you leave some adds up beating on you riposte won't run out but it doesn't matter after all
    Protectors: one tank, riposte 100%
    Norushen: riposte might be down when you're in the other world, else you can just tank him all the time
    Sha of Pride: 90ish % uptime possible with intervene, IJ trinket would still be at over 3% theoretical crit. We made a different approach from the very beginning and just had one tank eat all his stacks while the stronger one dps'ed him netting 100% riposte all time.
    Galakras: 100% uptime as long as you're tanking, the faster your raid the more uptime between waves (but more baseline crit won't help you then either)
    IJ: 100% uptime with a fast raid, if your team is to slow more baseline crit will help you for the first time out of six bosses
    Shamans: 100% uptime
    Nazgrim: 100% uptime
    Malkorok: 100% uptime if your team is really fast (read: kill him before first bloodrage), else you'll have some downtime point taken
    Spoils: 100% uptime while tanking
    Thok: 90%+ uptime, you just leave the jailer up as long as possible which further helps your raid with dps'ing the boss
    Siegewiper: 100% uptime, just eat all the stacks *nomnom*
    Klaxxi: 100% uptime
    Garrosh: 100% uptime while tanking (outside of cutscenes etc.)

    So that's (Sha,) Thok and if your raid isn't that fast IJ & Malkorok. Not to many and clearly not enough to prove your point, imho. While all those examples are the prime ones and require some clever use of mechanics it should be only fair when we're talking about maximum dps, shouldn't it?
    I know all of that. Its just the discussion was about something else. But (with most points) you are right.

    A tactics tailored for maximizing tank dps (with vengeance mechanics in mind) is always better then maximizing your gear stats and with that playing for example with three tanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    What is def gear?
    Def gear has defensive stats. Go figure!
    Last edited by Moxie21; 2014-08-07 at 03:46 AM.

  9. #2449
    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie21 View Post
    You ask why? Its just the opposit reason all classes gem Exp so they can reforge into their best second stat on items: You wear exp items so you are able to gem more crit. Compared to an item which has Dodge/parry where you can reforge only one stat into crit you lose alot of expertise which you have to get back throu gemming or reforging other items. Which in the end will net you fewer crit.
    If you go back and reread his post, you'll notice he was ignoring Exp/Hit in favor of reaching as high crit% as possible with Riposte up. In that scenario, avoidance pieces will give you more crit than crit/x pieces in nearly every slot.

    It's obviously not a suggestion for how to gear, just something done for fun.

  10. #2450
    Quote Originally Posted by Toroq View Post
    If you go back and reread his post, you'll notice he was ignoring Exp/Hit in favor of reaching as high crit% as possible with Riposte up. In that scenario, avoidance pieces will give you more crit than crit/x pieces in nearly every slot.

    It's obviously not a suggestion for how to gear, just something done for fun.
    I know and i fully understood.
    Its just not the right way to ignore Exp/Hit dmg wise.

  11. #2451
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaflare View Post
    Hey guys, does anyone make sure of a shield barrier weakaura that shows the predicted shield absorb amount based on current vengeance? I've looked all over and the only thing I've come up with is strings that show the absorb amount currently left. I know it's possible because I've seen screenshots but I've turned up nothing when it comes to strings.
    SlamAndAwe does the trick for me.

  12. #2452
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaflare View Post
    Hey guys, does anyone make sure of a shield barrier weakaura that shows the predicted shield absorb amount based on current vengeance? I've looked all over and the only thing I've come up with is strings that show the absorb amount currently left. I know it's possible because I've seen screenshots but I've turned up nothing when it comes to strings.
    Try this string In Weakaura di02eaGifPlHuQgLs6ukLvPI6vkaZcjULcQDPq1VOskdJOCmK0YqQEMcIPHuY1ue2McsFtbQXPi6Dkr3drAFiLYbjI fQcpKkjMivs1fvGCsvKvsKUjIyNQs)uH0qriwkcEQOPc0vPs8vfqZvHYEH(lIAWKomHftL6XaMSs1LPSzP6ZkQrJqD AHEncPzl42QIDtv)wkdNkwUk9CqtxY1vvBxj8DKIXRqCEIQ1tLK2pQrQiiMrmp5l72fa2yNaAE4yr)cYqIJwyNSSbJ jet6JlB8bJ5dM7yUJGyoYO9o0k8DyQuNatGpSApG2ifM9VhOIn)6glLvwzL1qdqey1TaAuy1Pbp(9ofw928XV3zLuw DXhljvjaikrA0y31PobHC7oDBjlLvwzL1qdqey16DdOIlmwjLv3cOX6ay1Pbp(9oRdGvVnF879LSuwzLvwdnarGv3c OLGeOWkSevcsGcRon4XV3tqcuy1BZh)EpbjWkPS6IpwzjQ1PobHC7oLc1TLSuwzLvwdnarGv3cOLGsiHcRWsujOesO WQtdE879eucjuy1BZh)EpbLqcRKYQl(yLLOwN6eeYT7ukdzBjlLvwzL1qdqey1PrJDzLuwDXhlI0OXURtDcc52D62s wkRSYkRXoRRonASlR0gPSouzBSweBEwkRSYkRSYkRSET6F9S2dT2D9rmYk9ZRwVBavCHn8kSevcs4m9TnkSclrLGsi 5m9XNyBBjlLvwzLvlanwkRSYkRSYkRSET6F9S2dT2D9rmYk9ZRwVBavCHn8kSevcs4m9TnkSclrLGsi5m9XNy78QtJ g76Adv222swkRSYkRMFNLA(DmLpAVdTcFhMoDzyw348SDrqml5ogMWsuFiMFVTW8fMIF1W0wy(ctjavS5z1fOWDWW8 dnYFFSWdm)qJm0XcHxXJHhyc8Hv7HmXXDdZk(y7ycDSq4v8y4lvQ0LrRjXctIT4mXf(oPmmdnXocI5hAK92c7IUXe6 yaiiMWOFoy47qWcZp0ideeqiEG5TfmeeZNFOIiiwyH5hAKHogaEGjqqaHiiMWOFoyyoqjeiCAucy(8dvebXCGsiq40 OeWdSWcZp0id0EClk8aZp0i7fpg6glm7nFLrx1WxQtG5Ee6eeYZsaquiM0oaMxBo28GYDmmJanpMXDmZdXftAI7fX4 7KYWuSVhRyZlcKRBCE2Uqeelm9)hWBCE2Uq8LkMFFDJZZ2fbXe6yHWR4XWxQuPlJwtIfM7rOtqi)eqZJ5jFz3UaWg7 eqZdhtI7yiwYj76w387yclbarHePf9fMUYGEbhebSWCb(sLwuLHfIa

  13. #2453
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    Any1 got custom lua script to make the Shield barrier absorb amount 130,000 or 130k not 130000

  14. #2454
    Hi all, another question for the people who know warrior stuff better than I. Would 10m heroic garrosh be easier to SOLO tank with an avoidance build or a mastery build? Specifically the 2nd and 3rd phases where the stacks are building up. thanks in advance.

  15. #2455
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    Quote Originally Posted by beat View Post
    Hi all, another question for the people who know warrior stuff better than I. Would 10m heroic garrosh be easier to SOLO tank with an avoidance build or a mastery build? Specifically the 2nd and 3rd phases where the stacks are building up. thanks in advance.
    Avoidance build.

  16. #2456
    Hey guys, got a few questions/looking for some advice

    I currently tank 25m H 576ilvl with avoidance build. We are progressing on H garry with our best attempts being at 1-5% in phase 3. For pull, we usually have the monk tank pull to get him into position, while I shattering throw, taunt and heroic throw. Thing is, I can't seem to keep threat even after all of that. Essentially I'm trying to shield slam right after heroic throw but between the GCD of throw and slam I'm losing threat. not a huge issue because I can usually get it back by the time adds come out, but this isn't the only fight where i have the issue. Any advice or tips? He's using rushing jade wind so not sure if that is the issue. I believe we are similarly geared as well. Every now and then I don't have threat issues with him but I'm starting to get really frustrated with it!

    My second question is in regards to vengeance; is there a way to keep vengeance during the ToEs transition if we are doing the skip it stand in the back strat? I tried soaking the swirls and that seemed to drop my vengeance every time although that could have also been the timer running out as well. Is there any way to keep vengeance if you are not doing anything during this phase? maybe rally a few adds up ? I'm not sure that would work but maybe someone has some input for that

    Lastly; I know its been asked a million times before but i wanted to clarify, for soaking annihilates I'm doing shield wall right before the first one, demo shout as its about to run out as well as sbar after that; I tend to struggle with having enough rage for good barriers for the last two so we have a pain suppression ready just in case. Is there something better I can do for this part?


    thanks for all your help- let me know if you need links to logs or character armories or anything

  17. #2457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanorala View Post
    Hey guys, got a few questions/looking for some advice

    I currently tank 25m H 576ilvl with avoidance build. We are progressing on H garry with our best attempts being at 1-5% in phase 3. For pull, we usually have the monk tank pull to get him into position, while I shattering throw, taunt and heroic throw. Thing is, I can't seem to keep threat even after all of that. Essentially I'm trying to shield slam right after heroic throw but between the GCD of throw and slam I'm losing threat. not a huge issue because I can usually get it back by the time adds come out, but this isn't the only fight where i have the issue. Any advice or tips? He's using rushing jade wind so not sure if that is the issue. I believe we are similarly geared as well. Every now and then I don't have threat issues with him but I'm starting to get really frustrated with it!
    Are you solotanking and the Monk is there just to kite the adds? If so you should start casting shattering throw when pull timer is at 3, then Charge at 1 and taunt + SS, also helps if rogues/hunters are tricksing/MDing you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanorala View Post
    My second question is in regards to vengeance; is there a way to keep vengeance during the ToEs transition if we are doing the skip it stand in the back strat? I tried soaking the swirls and that seemed to drop my vengeance every time although that could have also been the timer running out as well. Is there any way to keep vengeance if you are not doing anything during this phase? maybe rally a few adds up ? I'm not sure that would work but maybe someone has some input for that
    Why do you need to keep vengeance up there? When you come back and garrosh hits you 2-3 times your vengeance is back up at 300k+
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanorala View Post
    Lastly; I know its been asked a million times before but i wanted to clarify, for soaking annihilates I'm doing shield wall right before the first one, demo shout as its about to run out as well as sbar after that; I tend to struggle with having enough rage for good barriers for the last two so we have a pain suppression ready just in case. Is there something better I can do for this part?


    thanks for all your help- let me know if you need links to logs or character armories or anything
    Last part it really comes from experience. Personally I use Shield Wall right before the first one hits, then Last Stand + enraged regen; pooling rage. Demoshout later with few barriers, then Painsupp and few barriers for the rest.
    Last edited by Createk; 2014-08-12 at 11:23 PM.

  18. #2458
    Karjis

    I have been having difficulty charging garrosh and somehow charging through him; I end up having to reorient myself and coupled with the lag at pull have a hard time getting him to our mark before adds start ti arrive. Thats why monk has been pulling and getting him into position while I sometimes shout/charge meet him half way then taunt and all that jazz. Gonna try using zerk rage before SS and HT and see if that helps with my threat.


    I was only asking about vengeance for that phase because we are cutting the DPS check to skip a second empowered whirling pretty close; whereas if I could squeeze out a bit more damage it might be helpful to push the phase ( we have some people popping pots and whatnot to try and pus the phase before lusting )

    I'll have to check out what my vengeance is after transition phase 2 because it has always seemed quite low even right before empowered whirl #1



    also, is it me or do you spend most of the time trying to stand IN annihilates vs actually doing damage to him during transition 1? I'm always running all over the place

  19. #2459
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanorala View Post
    also, is it me or do you spend most of the time trying to stand IN annihilates vs actually doing damage to him during transition 1? I'm always running all over the place
    You can actively dps him while standing in annihilates. You have a few seconds between casts where he spins and throws down the animation on the ground. Don't stand too far out from him as it will increase your time between running to the next slam spot.

  20. #2460
    Tip: You can use your abilities while running.

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