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  1. #41
    I think you guys are not looking at your itemization the next patch. GC tweeted that they are thinking 553 n and 566 H. Add upgrades, 574. Add the occasional bloodsoaked, 580. Add epic gems. You know that we are going to cap hit/exp/mastery while gemming stam. Will you go for 1% avoidance @~1000 rating, considering that a non-avoided attack it's hitting you for 1-0,6*1,3=22% of a normal attack?

    You are going to go for crit after mastery regardless of what crit does. I'm glad that you are being vocal about the first iteration, because you are going to use it. Even if it does nada for defense.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-06-13 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #42

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    You are going to go for crit after mastery regardless of what crit does. I'm glad that you are being vocal about the first iteration, because you are going to use it. Even if it does nada for defense.
    I'm not sure if you posted this before the Riposte change, but avoidance is now looking like the way to go given that it also provides extra critical strike chance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  4. #44
    I posted this on the other thread alredy. First and foremost we need 2550 hit, 5100 exp and 19000 mastery.

    Now...we can convert dodge/parry into crit directly. This will reduce avoidance but gain use more crit/enrage for eventually a better rage gain thus more active mitigation.
    Or...we just keep dodge/parry and just take the passive crit it gives us.

    To actually reach 30% crit raidbuffed with only passive crit boost we would need rougly 50k rating or 3100 rating per item. That is impossible without ilvl 600 items imo.

    A prot warrior that is not going for the 19k mastery is a douchbag imo.
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-06-25 at 10:26 AM.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    A prot warrior that is not going for the 19k mastery is a douchbag imo.
    I've thought about that. We don't know how the fights are designed in SoO just yet (i've only seen 2 out of 12+), maybe we can get away with spamming barrier 24/7 at least on 10M... this would free us from a lot of mastery rating while pushing our crit chance to 30-35% raidbuffed and we could run stamina heavy, too.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    I've thought about that. We don't know how the fights are designed in SoO just yet (i've only seen 2 out of 12+), maybe we can get away with spamming barrier 24/7 at least on 10M... this would free us from a lot of mastery rating while pushing our crit chance to 30-35% raidbuffed and we could run stamina heavy, too.
    Who are you and what have you done with my fellow mitigation machine Klaus?!?!

    More serious note, if that's how it's going to be i'm truely going to be a sad prot warrior It's just.... My job is taking as LITTLE damage as possible, then doing as much as I can damage/utility wise without deminishing how little damage I take. Blizzard should really not make me into some kinda turd that balances between how much damage I take and how much damage I do.

    I do not want!
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    I've thought about that. We don't know how the fights are designed in SoO just yet (i've only seen 2 out of 12+), maybe we can get away with spamming barrier 24/7 at least on 10M... this would free us from a lot of mastery rating while pushing our crit chance to 30-35% raidbuffed and we could run stamina heavy, too.
    That'd be a significant drop in Shield Slam damage which, unfortunately, is the only attack we have that actually does anything.

    It doesn't look viable to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    ...
    Currently you are assuming that tank dps matters so much that you are willing to throw away your own survivability for an increase in self-dps. One can only hope that this will not be the case.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    Blizzard should really not make me into some kinda turd that balances between how much damage I take and how much damage I do.
    There will always be an enrage timer to meet and with us being the weakest link we should already try to deal the most damage while still being barely healable at the same time (thus without healers complaining). And don't forget that hitting barrier != throwing out two heroic strikes, it's still damage reduction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zellviren View Post
    That'd be a significant drop in Shield Slam damage which, unfortunately, is the only attack we have that actually does anything.
    That's a good point. With the strength to parry conversion we already got a decent amount of avoidance without stacking avoidance rating, but is 50% more damage on our hardest hitting ability really enough to offset 10-20% more damage on all styles (via additional crit from riposte) + way more ultimatum proccs? At least on 10M melee damage isn't that scary after all, i regulary eat much more (4:6) unblockable damage over the entire ToT instance.

    And what's with the vengeance cap? Is that still planned, haven't seen a regular patchnote about that outside of that twitter message once. Right now i'd be almost vengeance capped on Durumu & Primordius and if we don't stack stamina we'll only add slighty more hitpoints, maybe reaching 300k cap (or 1 million hitpoints) on 10M. I'd expect to have the new bosses to hit noticeable harder on average, thus 200k+ being the norm not the exception. Adding more stamina via gems & trinkets could open up room for more vengeance/damage but i don't know. I just keep thinking about Eddy's mention of those 350k vengeance and the "undie-able" barrier linked to that. I only encountered those numbers in the end of last tier on Meljarak & Shek'zeer and hitting barrier back then really felt super strong (even after the 10% nerf it should net strong numbers). Now add our new 2 piece bonus into that consideration, working against anything & everything and it's not so odd after all, is it?

    Last thing: for maximum damage you could also stack avoidance rating and still spam block, this would be counter intuitive and should net the highest damage intake of those three approaches but also the highest damage dealt utilising both riposte & heavy repercussion to it's fullest.

    Anyway tldr; -> they should just bake our dps glyphs into the warrior itself (but we all said that before).

    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    Currently you are assuming that tank dps matters so much that you are willing to throw away your own survivability for an increase in self-dps. One can only hope that this will not be the case.
    This has been the case on every heroic fight in the expansion to be honest. Tank dps matters, even more than it did in Cata due to how vengeance helps us overcoming regular dps and bringing strong raidhealing tanks like monk/paladin or hybrid dps with strong self/groupheals gives you the opportunity to bring less regular healers. The real problem is that other tanks don't throw away survivability when they pick up crit (monk/druid) or haste (paladin and to a way lesser extent DK), just generate their defensive resources either differently (ie paladin generates more holy power but his AM is noticeable weaker per se, thus he needs to pay more attention 110% of the time) or the alternatives are lackluster (ie druids mastery, having the option to keep both AM up for ~85% of the time via gearing for crit is simply so much stronger than having slightly more armor). Or take a look at monks unique guard mechanic, the more damage they deal they more they heal the raid and 250k+ absorb shields, thrown at random raidmember and lasting for 30 seconds, isn't something you can talk down.
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2013-06-25 at 02:02 PM.

  10. #50
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    The 2-set bonus might be even better:
    Currently on ptr the heal can crit. So assume you have 100% critblock and a 30 % (there's still the chance, they revert riposte to get us tanks the 30% crit, GC announced) chance to crit and therefor to critheal:

    It should(!) go like this, we have a 200k hit: 60% block = 120k blocked
    =>80k hit. 30% of 120k healed = 36k, but now it crits, that's a 72k heal.
    So we have that 200k blow where 120k got blocked and 72k got healed right afterwards, so there's 8k left....lol^^

    Of course we can't have a 100% shieldblock-uptime, but that would be awesome...that would make us almost paladins or monks^^ so they will definitely nerf it or make an internal cd or something....
    Or they make the important attacks unblockable but still affected by sotr and stagger, so here we go again
    Last edited by Sevona; 2013-06-25 at 10:59 PM.
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  11. #51
    Aehm. Isn't there a difference between spell crit and melee crit, like melee and ranged attackpower?
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    Aehm. Isn't there a difference between spell crit and melee crit, like melee and ranged attackpower?
    They are still based on the same stat from a warrior perspective, i.e. crit rating, so without any melee/spell specific buffs they should be the same?
    Last edited by Delath; 2013-06-26 at 09:43 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevona View Post
    So assume you have 100% critblock and a 30 % (there's still the chance, they revert riposte to get us tanks the 30% crit, GC announced)
    Might have missed it but what did GC say exactly? And revert what? Afaik it's been rating from day 1, so reverting it at this point would be removing it no?
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Delath View Post
    They are still based on the same stat from a warrior perspective, i.e. crit rating, so without any melee/spell specific buffs they should be the same?
    There's a base melee crit chance of 5% other than that you get an insignificant amount of melee crit (agility) and spell crit (int) at a conversion rate of about 10000:1%
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    There's a base melee crit chance of 5% other than that you get an insignificant amount of melee crit (agility) and spell crit (int) at a conversion rate of about 10000:1%
    Don't know if there was some misunderstading, but crit rating is crit rating, and will give both spell and melee crit. That's what he meant.

    @Zellviren, yep, was before Riposte.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-06-26 at 08:28 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    I've thought about that. We don't know how the fights are designed in SoO just yet (i've only seen 2 out of 12+), maybe we can get away with spamming barrier 24/7 at least on 10M... this would free us from a lot of mastery rating while pushing our crit chance to 30-35% raidbuffed and we could run stamina heavy, too.
    I have thought about this as well.

    Sims showed shield barrier provided overall reduced damage intake (not taking in to consideration the damage spike issue) with 522 gear pre 10% nerph. Sims also showed that even after the nerph barrier scales better in the long term. The question is will the plateau be reached with t16 gear. One of the benefits of shield barrier is it does not require secondary stats to be effective unlike shield block which requires mastery allowing us to stack avoidance which with the proposed changes leads to crit.

    Just food for thought, none of this takes in to consideration boss mechanics. Would be interesting to see some sims.

  17. #57
    You cannot say this per se since you cannot block magick damage. It heavily depends on how many blockable damage is part of the encounters.

    That is one of the major drawbacks of mastery. You can gather up 19k mastery and on a magic encounter all those mastery is worth nothing since it affects block only. That is one of the reasons why stamina trinkets are still valuable. You want to switch those in on magic heavy fights. You can easily gather 4-5k stamina that way.

    Well...or you switch in crit trinkets since you get enrage from crits. This generates more barrier uptime.
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-06-27 at 07:23 AM.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    Might have missed it but what did GC say exactly? And revert what? Afaik it's been rating from day 1, so reverting it at this point would be removing it no?
    Sorry for my late reply, here's the tweet from GC:
    https://twitter.com/search?q=We%27re...ften.&src=typd

    Of course this could mean NOTHING. But it is a hint, where they wanted the critchance for tanks to be.
    And 30% for us is only possible when they take our percentage of dodge/parry or when they increase the multiplier from 50% to atleast 100% and still using the dodge/parry-ratings.
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  19. #59
    Well, I wonder how they're going to attempt to balance things if they do not actually make a change like that take effect at some point....

    I mean it's nice that he states it there and what not, and all the other little tweaks and changes, but only Seeing it as a whole would allow us to truely be able to see if what they've done is enough.

    Anyone look at the trinkets btw, the one with cooldown reduction amuses me, the other ones don't do to much for me, they have ALOT of sta trinket though...
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  20. #60
    This is rumored to be the proc on tank legendary cloak http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146193-endurance-of-niuzao. Wonder if there are any restrictions to what it can absorb since it could potentially negate a lot of boss mechanics.

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