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  1. #701
    i would like to share my feeling when i switched to parry/dodge build

    i had 85% mastery (raid buff) and clearing tot without problems, but i wanted to try parry/dodge before 5.4, i was really shocked that parry/dodge build was making lotof rage and much better than mastery (i tested it on TOT 10m raid real game not PTR), for first time i was able to use double Sblock + full Sbar ! (dont know if its ez for u)

    now im sure and happy that i will go parry/dodge for 5.4

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by d2klein View Post
    The idea behind going crit after mastery is having more rage for additional barriers (haven't done the math on my own just heard about it) so you can "avoid" when needed and not avoid when avoided and probably useless as you aren't in danger.
    The general idea seems to be right but just from looking at crit vs avoidance in the example above (BiS mastery gear) it's 7% more crits from one hundred (100) ss+devs, that's 70 rage. The big rage gain is actually from all the crit blocks in this build, about every second melee swing (single target) or every 3s (multitarget).

    Quote Originally Posted by d2klein View Post
    Anyway we are discussing extremes that aren't reachable ... you won't be able to completely find a way around mastery in an avoidance build (at least if aiming for t16-2pc) and you won't be able to completely avoid avoidance if going for mastery > crit so the differences are of a more theoretical nature and won't be that high.
    Actually it's possible to go for almost only mastery/x pieces this tier with several mastery/crit and some mastery/exp & mastery/hit pieces allowing you to fill the gemslots with more mastery or crit and further reforges into high crit ratings are achievable. You can't forgo mastery totally (one setpiece with it, on belt & legendary cloak as well) in an avoidance heavy built but after all a) both stats aren't bad for damage mitigation, avoidance only adds something on the offensive side as well b) when we're looking at over 35k secondary stats to spend freely and we end up with 2-3k in the "wrong" area that's nothing we'll be to worried about (for BiS, during progression we probably just pick up whatever drops first especially on 10M).

    @sirmo7
    And you didn't even experience the increased rage from revenge spam, the enrage uptime from ss/dev crits and riposte

  3. #703
    Alright, so I have everything pretty much set up well enough for tomorrow, I think (Still a few gems/pieces to tinker with). Doing 10 mans, so going for a full dodge/parry strategy.

    I just have two last questions.

    I've been thinking about my trinkets. I hadn't had much luck with ToT trinkets (Fort. of the Zandalari was the only one I got from Normal), so I was using the Exp/Strength SPA one for a while. And looking at it, I was thinking to switch out the Jade Warlord Figurine for it. It'd give me a hell-of a lot more Expertise (which I could then shift gems around more), as well as more avoidance stats. Good idea?

    Which brings me to my second question: How should I balance dodge/parry? I've read it doesn't really matter, I've read I should get more parry than dodge. So which is is? As it is, I've been going for Flashing/Subtle in Red/Yellow sockets; should that change?

    I'm starting a new 10 man for 5.4, so won't be going into Normals quite yet (My plan was Flex tomorrow, then ToT since the raid won't be stable and some people aren't geared enough for Normal Siege yet anyways), but I think this set-up would be fine. Thoughts/Concerns/Suggestions?

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post

    Which brings me to my second question: How should I balance dodge/parry? I've read it doesn't really matter, I've read I should get more parry than dodge.
    It really doesnt matter. The difference between going the "optimal" balance and max parry for me is literally .02% avoidance.

    EDIT: I just remembered that I had 2 dodge trinkets on PTR that I (and you) will not have tomorrow. Don't go full parry. It's still not enough to make a huge difference but its a lot more then the .02% I said before.

    EDIT #2: I'm setting up on live right now and gemming the following:

    Red: Parry
    Yellow: Dodge
    Blue: Parry/Stam (for 90+ stam/120+ avoidance)

    Reforging Dodge>Parry: 53.37%
    Reforging Parry>Dodge: 53.30%

    IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.
    Last edited by Gliff; 2013-09-09 at 10:48 PM.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    It really doesnt matter. The difference between going the "optimal" balance and max parry for me is literally .02% avoidance.

    EDIT: I just remembered that I had 2 dodge trinkets on PTR that I (and you) will not have tomorrow. Don't go full parry. It's still not enough to make a huge difference but its a lot more then the .02% I said before.

    EDIT #2: I'm setting up on live right now and gemming the following:

    Red: Parry
    Yellow: Dodge
    Blue: Parry/Stam (for 90+ stam/120+ avoidance)

    Reforging Dodge>Parry: 53.37%
    Reforging Parry>Dodge: 53.30%

    IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.
    Exactly how i planned on Gemming. I stocked up on all the gems as they have been less then 10g on Area 52 for months now so i am gtg there.

    I will be re-gemming, enchanting and reforging tonight, so once i am done ill try and post my stats.

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotsforyou View Post
    Exactly how i planned on Gemming. I stocked up on all the gems as they have been less then 10g on Area 52 for months now so i am gtg there.

    I will be re-gemming, enchanting and reforging tonight, so once i am done ill try and post my stats.
    I'm doing the same, except many of my blue sockets are expertise/stamina.

    Either way, still fiddling around a little. From some quick calculations I've done, I'll have about 12k rating from Riposte added. If I didn't fuck up somewhere, that means I'll have like 30% or so crit raid buffed.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    It really doesnt matter. The difference between going the "optimal" balance and max parry for me is literally .02% avoidance.

    EDIT: I just remembered that I had 2 dodge trinkets on PTR that I (and you) will not have tomorrow. Don't go full parry. It's still not enough to make a huge difference but its a lot more then the .02% I said before.

    EDIT #2: I'm setting up on live right now and gemming the following:

    Red: Parry
    Yellow: Dodge
    Blue: Parry/Stam (for 90+ stam/120+ avoidance)

    Reforging Dodge>Parry: 53.37%
    Reforging Parry>Dodge: 53.30%

    IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.
    120 Sta/160 secondary

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    120 Sta/160 secondary
    He probably means that only going this way when the socket bonus is 90+ stam or 120+ avoidance.


    @Gliff
    In a case where you have a blue socket and a socket bonus not worth taking, does it matter which avoidance gem you use then?
    For example if you got blue and red sockets and bonus of 60 parry (=not worth taking) do you go for 2x 320 parry or 2x 320 dodge?
    I know you just said that this doesn't really matter, but when there is like 3 gem slots in a item and you are not taking the bonus, would you go for parry or dodge gems in that case? I remember something about aiming to have twice more parry than dodge, but is that outdated info?

    Another question for any expert to answer.. Im switching from fury to prot mainspec, and I was wondering if there are some ToT fury items that would be good for tanking in 5.4, Im probably going to use all of my heroic crit fury gear with avoidance gems over 522 not upgraded tanking gear, but for example TF Gaze of the Twins, would that be good for tanking? Im currently using the shado-pan exp trinket (522). Gaze has pretty nice uptime (over 50% if I remember right, so it is a lot of crit.)
    Last edited by Musta Kyy; 2013-09-10 at 02:35 AM.

    i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz | R9 280X | Samsung Evo 250GB

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgsnstuff View Post
    He probably means that only going this way when the socket bonus is 90+ stam or 120+ avoidance.
    Correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgsnstuff View Post
    @Gliff
    In a case where you have a blue socket and a socket bonus not worth taking, does it matter which avoidance gem you use then?
    For example if you got blue and red sockets and bonus of 60 parry (=not worth taking) do you go for 2x 320 parry or 2x 320 dodge?
    I know you just said that this doesn't really matter, but when there is like 3 gem slots in a item and you are not taking the bonus, would you go for parry or dodge gems in that case? I remember something about aiming to have twice more parry than dodge, but is that outdated info?

    Another question for any expert to answer.. Im switching from fury to prot mainspec, and I was wondering if there are some ToT fury items that would be good for tanking in 5.4, Im probably going to use all of my heroic crit fury gear with avoidance gems over 522 not upgraded tanking gear, but for example TF Gaze of the Twins, would that be good for tanking? Im currently using the shado-pan exp trinket (522). Gaze has pretty nice uptime (over 50% if I remember right, so it is a lot of crit.)

    Like I said before, the balance of Parry/dodge doesnt really matter in the realm of DR. Im using Parry gems in sockets that dont matter.

    I would use the Heroic DPS gear over 522 gear you have. The difference in Armor/Strength/Stam between 522 and heroic gear is pretty high. Its obviously not ideal, but you should be fine in DPS gear for normal modes. Both of those trinkets will also be fine. I would suggest replacing that gear with tanking gear asap before you get into heroics.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    Like I said before, the balance of Parry/dodge doesnt really matter in the realm of DR. Im using Parry gems in sockets that dont matter.

    I would use the Heroic DPS gear over 522 gear you have. The difference in Armor/Strength/Stam between 522 and heroic gear is pretty high. Its obviously not ideal, but you should be fine in DPS gear for normal modes. Both of those trinkets will also be fine. I would suggest replacing that gear with tanking gear asap before you get into heroics.
    Thanks for the info! And yeah, I will try to replace those items as a priority, it will probably be couple weeks before my guild clears normal, so my gear situation should be fine then.

    i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz | R9 280X | Samsung Evo 250GB

  11. #711
    i am a complete noob in theorycrafting and item set building, but still i made 2 sets for my normal mode raiding and i hope for some feedback:

    first set: http://ptr.wowhead.com/list=172228/s...-equipment-set
    second set: http://ptr.wowhead.com/list=244221/s...-equipment-set

    was hoping for some feedback, i love mastery build over avoidance build.

    are they viable ? am i missing something ? which one you prefer ?
    Last edited by Mouri Kogorou; 2013-09-10 at 08:02 AM.

  12. #712
    You can go mastery or you can go avoidance. Both work. Mastery may cost you a bit of dps and mastery does nothing for you if you don't block.
    Thus parry/dodge is prefered. But either way you still can change alot of stats around by gemming/reforging.

    What you shouldn't do is go for mastery and respec into crit instead of parry/dodge. This is non-sense. You still gain 75% of that rating as crit and gain avoidance. Same goes for gems. You picked 80STR/160 crit. Picking 320 parry/dodge would have gotten you 320 avoidance and 240 crit rating. So gemming STR/CRIT is fail. Tanks don't gain attackpower from strength. We get attackpower from Vengeance.

    If a plate item has more armor+stamina than your item and tank stats it is an easy pick. The more dodge/parry the better.

    armor+stamina > hit 7.5 > exp 15 > parry=dodge > mastery


    Regarding stats...just keep parry/dodge rating (on gear/gems) even and grab exp/hit caps. Done.
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-09-10 at 08:28 AM.
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  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by mandus View Post
    are they viable ? am i missing something ? which one you prefer ?
    For BiS gear i'd take a look at AMR, the new stat-weights look really solid (thumbs up!), i like them both. You can set up BiS lists for normal/heroic incl. or excluding warforged and more in seconds and even toy around with crit block cap ('show advanced' top right corner of edit weights menu, then scroll all the way down to the bottom).

    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    You can go mastery or you can go avoidance. Both work. Mastery may cost you a bit of dps and mastery does nothing for you if you don't block.
    Thus parry/dodge is prefered. But either way you still can change alot of stats around by gemming/reforging.
    Best (or worst ) case at crit block cap the difference is 25% crit chance which you could translate into roughly 25% more damage dealt. So unless you have serious problems with managing bursts of high, block- & predictable physical damage i'd recommend avoidance as well just due to the fights nature this tier. Do you remember Alysrazor and it's tank mechanic for the hatching birds? You'll face something similar again this tier and killing stuff 1/4 faster when you're the major damage contributor can be a dealbreaker.
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2013-09-10 at 09:26 AM.

  14. #714
    guys, do u really think we will do much better dps now? atm im doing 50-80k dps 524 ilvl in 5.3 patch

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by sirmo7 View Post
    guys, do u really think we will do much better dps now? atm im doing 50-80k dps 524 ilvl in 5.3 patch
    Yes.

    (char limit owned me )
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  16. #716
    Well, I'm happy. Protection warriors and shadow priests get buffed and I play both.

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    Finally went though and did my BIS lists. I never include trinkets because they are so situational. PLEASE COMMENT AND LET ME KNOW IF YOU AGREE/DISAGREE AND WHY. I left off The Heirloom weapons/shield off of Garrosh.

    Boss drop Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nc&usp=sharing

    EDIT: I merged all three into the one link above for convenience.
    Boss drop Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nc&usp=sharing

    As the edit says above, I merged all three into the one link above for convenience.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    For BiS gear i'd take a look at AMR, the new stat-weights look really solid (thumbs up!), i like them both. You can set up BiS lists for normal/heroic incl. or excluding warforged and more in seconds and even toy around with crit block cap ('show advanced' top right corner of edit weights menu, then scroll all the way down to the bottom).


    Best (or worst ) case at crit block cap the difference is 25% crit chance which you could translate into roughly 25% more damage dealt. So unless you have serious problems with managing bursts of high, block- & predictable physical damage i'd recommend avoidance as well just due to the fights nature this tier. Do you remember Alysrazor and it's tank mechanic for the hatching birds? You'll face something similar again this tier and killing stuff 1/4 faster when you're the major damage contributor can be a dealbreaker.
    i see lots of people talk AMR, i have no idea what it stands for and how to calculate it.

  19. #719

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    oh the embarrassment xD.

    yeah i rely on AMR to make my BiS, i am just waiting for it to be updated for 5.4

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