1. #1421
    Ok I play an alt warrior and i have a pretty good understanding of avoudance build and an idea of crit build but could you explain me the crit build a bit.
    Do yu go for items from your dps gear with crit or do you just regem and reforge to crit and how much do you reforge to it, is it everything?

  2. #1422
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebubble View Post
    I've gotten my warrior alt rather geared in the past two weeks and am looking to either reroll it now that garrosh is about to go down or at least find a proper heroic raid group for it so I can have some fun. I got 5 runestones this week and hoping to pick up the remaining 7 next week I'll certainly have 'em in 2 weeks time for the cloak.

    I was hoping to get some critique on it's current setup glyphs/gems/enchants/reforges - I like the avoidance build but I'm not so sure on when to gem for dodge etc. nor what kind of socket bonuses are worth taking.

    Oh and to the guy asking about 2 tanking 10man siegecrafter and stacks we ran prot pally(me) and a blood dk and I got 3 then 4 then 5 stacks at which point he would go to 8 and I would reset (he'd kill his only add of the fight and reset his as well) and I would then take 4 stacks to kill my add then get a 5th kill an add and the boss would be dead by then.
    You need to use the revenge glyph and Shield slam glyph. They are pretty much mandatory.

    I use stam gems for my JC epic gems since you get more out of them but it may not be necessary in 10 man.

    Strength socket bonus are not worth it if they require a blue gem. As far as when to gem dodge, it really doesnt matter that much. A super heavy parry build compared to a balanced build that maximizes avoidance is only a couple 10ths of a % off from each other.

    I go for all avoidance bonuses even if it is only 60 dodge with a blue socket required but I'm not sure if I would as a 10 man tank. I like the stam being a 25 tank.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanali View Post
    Ok I play an alt warrior and i have a pretty good understanding of avoudance build and an idea of crit build but could you explain me the crit build a bit.
    Do yu go for items from your dps gear with crit or do you just regem and reforge to crit and how much do you reforge to it, is it everything?
    In a perfect world you want Crit/Mastery gear.

  3. #1423
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    You need to use the revenge glyph and Shield slam glyph. They are pretty much mandatory.

    I use stam gems for my JC epic gems since you get more out of them but it may not be necessary in 10 man.

    Strength socket bonus are not worth it if they require a blue gem. As far as when to gem dodge, it really doesnt matter that much. A super heavy parry build compared to a balanced build that maximizes avoidance is only a couple 10ths of a % off from each other.

    I go for all avoidance bonuses even if it is only 60 dodge with a blue socket required but I'm not sure if I would as a 10 man tank. I like the stam being a 25 tank.
    I actually raid 25s on my warrior (at least at the moment) :P
    By shield slam & revenge glyph I'm assuming you mean 'Hold the Line' & 'Heavy Repercussions'?

  4. #1424
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebubble View Post
    I actually raid 25s on my warrior (at least at the moment) :P
    By shield slam & revenge glyph I'm assuming you mean 'Hold the Line' & 'Heavy Repercussions'?
    Correct.

    In that case get those stam gems in your JC epic gems and any blue socket bonus that is avoidance.

  5. #1425
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Better now? :-)

  6. #1426
    Dodge to bracers and exp to gloves.

    Talents are off from what i would suggest but it may because you were doing other shit.

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  7. #1427
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozendekay View Post
    It's not really a bug tbh - he doesn't melee, just spams Hew. The more annoying part is that dodged or parried Hews don't give vengeance, so if you go avoidance you both have low crit and low vengeance for Skeer.
    Rikal doesn't give it either :<

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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Is the simc TMI standard boss values bugged ?
    T1610H is ~440k vengeance which doesn't seem right.

    Eddy, when you say proper rotation, im guessing the one in simc(build 4) is not optimal ?
    Can't we just sticky this thread until a proper guide comes out (if it does) ? It's pretty much de facto prot thread anyways

    Was the paragons riposte bug fixed ?
    TMI seems to have a very random variable on Simcraft for some reason yeah

    Trouble with simcraft is that it spams barrier too much and doesn't use heroic strike optimally, with a bit of tweaking with the priority you can easily increase DPS by around 30% on Simcraft

  8. #1428
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Trouble with simcraft is that it spams barrier too much and doesn't use heroic strike optimally, with a bit of tweaking with the priority you can easily increase DPS by around 30% on Simcraft
    Eddy could you suggest some improvements to the default APL, please? It used to be terrible but I went to some trouble to improve it in the latest release (540-4). The only thing I know of that is obviously wrong at the moment is the reference to the armor potion (although some might debate this) and the ridiculous conditional on Blood Fury referencing Colossus Smash (but shouldnt really be an issue since it will never hit this conditional). The dps cooldowns could be re-organized to be more optimal but I don't see a 30% improvement.

    If there are things that should be changed to increase dps by 30% please share so we can improve it.

  9. #1429
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Rikal doesn't give it either :<
    The trick with Rikal is to not stop the Injections, and just let it start stacking on you. I was doing it last night and it was giving me 230k+ vengeance on my monk. Granted on normal there really isn't a reason to let the injections fade off you and release the parasites, but on heroic there is. So there is a way to at least gain vengeance tanking that boss itself. Can't say there's a way with the others.



  10. #1430
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    The trick with Rikal is to not stop the Injections, and just let it start stacking on you. I was doing it last night and it was giving me 230k+ vengeance on my monk. Granted on normal there really isn't a reason to let the injections fade off you and release the parasites, but on heroic there is. So there is a way to at least gain vengeance tanking that boss itself. Can't say there's a way with the others.
    On 10 heroic I sometimes fucked it up and had to let it urn for half of rik'kals health that gave me 300-400k vengeance

  11. #1431
    Since Blackfuse is the popular encounter now on the thread... have you guys really been using Stormbolt on him? Yes, stack burst, and all that. But look at logs of people using it (almost everyone and his mother, taking one of the first on wordoflogs):

    23:07:08.663] Automated Shredder gains Death From Above from Automated Shredder
    [23:07:09.635] Vakaria Storm Bolt Automated Shredder 515490
    [23:07:11.599] Vakaria Dragon Roar Automated Shredder Immune
    [23:07:11.599] Vakaria casts Dragon Roar
    [23:07:11.850] Vakaria Dragon Roar Automated Shredder *4706040*

    Bloodbath seems to outshine it brutally, only the 6 secs tick for Dragon Roar already outdoes the damage of Storm Bolt (and done at the first gcd, it will tick fully before a new overload). That's without adding the previous ticks you got from Bloodbath, the GCD you use instead of Storm Bolt, and the rest of ticks of skills you fit into the burst. We do scale horridly with weapon damage. Don't know why everyone went with that talent.

  12. #1432
    You can use StormBolt just before the shredder gain the buff, as it has a travel time, meaning you can fit an extra global inside the damage bonus window.
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  13. #1433
    And even so... will it outweight Bloodbath? I was disregarding the GCD you replaced Storm Bolt with and the additional ticks from other hits, and it was breaken even "if" Storm Bolt would have critted.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-10-29 at 08:28 PM.

  14. #1434
    I used avatar. It worked well killing the Shredder with low stacks.

  15. #1435
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    Has anyone brought paragons bugs to blizzards attention ?
    not giving vengeance this long after release is just insane.
    only noticed horrible uptime on riposte, still had ~96% vengeance, cant remember what i tanked.

    Tehpounderer, not sure if your the right person to ask, but could you check if the TMI profiles (specially T16H10) is correct ? Not often I have ~440k veng and the custom only gives 120k. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Theck had messed up a decimal or something and it would be corrected in an upcoming build, but not 100% sure.

    Eddy, would be awesome if you could share your beast APL, 30% is no little increase
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-10-29 at 10:28 PM.

  16. #1436
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    The trick with Rikal is to not stop the Injections, and just let it start stacking on you. I was doing it last night and it was giving me 230k+ vengeance on my monk. Granted on normal there really isn't a reason to let the injections fade off you and release the parasites, but on heroic there is. So there is a way to at least gain vengeance tanking that boss itself. Can't say there's a way with the others.
    Exactly what I do :P

    @SiegeCrafter I *did* try stormbolt for a bit but found using Bloodbath + Dragonroar to be vastly superior using a high stack strategy. It eventually gets to the point where you kill your shredder before Dragon Roar is up again and before it does death from above and you can then just dump that massive damage into the mines instead. Dragon Roar also lines up perfectly, 60 seconds, between each death from above so its the clear winner for me

    Simcraft APL that I use which has a more realistic use of HS but does remove the usage of barrier so you can simply drop HS's for Barriers on Live;

    actions.precombat+=/food,type=chun_tian_spring_rollsactions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
    actions.precombat+=/stance,choose=defensive
    actions.precombat+=/battle_shout
    actions.precombat+=/mogu_power_potion


    actions=auto_attack
    actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=(target.health.pct<20&buff.recklessness.up)|target.time_to_die<=25
    actions+=/blood_fury,if=buff.bloodbath.up|(!talent.bloodbath.enabled&debuff.colossus_smash.up)
    actions+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|buff.glyph_incite.up|rage>=rage.max-15
    actions+=/berserker_rage,if=buff.enrage.down&rage<=rage.max-10
    actions+=/shield_block
    actions+=/shield_wall,if=incoming_damage_2500ms>health.max*0.6
    actions+=/last_stand,if=incoming_damage_2500ms>health.max*0.6&buff.shield_wall.down
    actions+=/run_action_list,name=dps_cds,if=buff.vengeance.value>health.max*0.20
    actions+=/run_action_list,name=normal_rotation


    actions.dps_cds=avatar,if=talent.avatar.enabled
    actions.dps_cds+=/bloodbath,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled
    actions.dps_cds+=/blood_fury
    actions.dps_cds+=/dragon_roar,if=talent.dragon_roar.enabled
    actions.dps_cds+=/shattering_throw
    actions.dps_cds+=/skull_banner
    actions.dps_cds+=/recklessness
    actions.dps_cds+=/storm_bolt,if=talent.storm_bolt.enabled
    actions.dps_cds+=/shockwave,if=talent.shockwave.enabled
    actions.dps_cds+=/bladestorm,if=talent.bladestorm.enabled
    actions.dps_cds+=/run_action_list,name=normal_rotation


    actions.normal_rotation=shield_slam
    actions.normal_rotation+=/revenge
    actions.normal_rotation+=/thunder_clap,if=glyph.resonating_power.enabled|target.debuff.weakened_blows.down
    actions.normal_rotation+=/demoralizing_shout
    actions.normal_rotation+=/impending_victory,if=talent.impending_victory.enabled
    actions.normal_rotation+=/victory_rush,if=!talent.impending_victory.enabled
    actions.normal_rotation+=/devastate
    - - - Updated - - -

    If you want to be extremely scummy you could probably remove shattering throw from it as well :P Also this is without the undending rage glyph and if you had that, you could probably change;

    actions+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|buff.glyph_incite.up|rage>=rage.max-15

    to

    actions+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|buff.glyph_incite.up|rage>=rage.max-30

  17. #1437
    guys

    today i will start tanking first 3 bosses on HC (10 man)

    any tips on how to maximize my dps and special things for warrior?

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...adwar/advanced

  18. #1438
    avatar is bad, get rid of it.
    i prefer having the thunder clap damage increase glyph to the 20+ rage, as i find you can use block as a dps cd to maximize the chance of getting 2 slams in one 6 second window, lessening the rage you need, and clap enters your single target rotation above devastate,
    also depending on how good your healers are you can heroic strike whenever 90-100 rage, its a nice increase,
    also if your only on the first 3 hc then wear a dps cloak, the proc is far better than the tank one that is wasted more often than not, or doesn't work the rest of the time.
    also execute, alot.
    these are of course dps centric, so if your having an issue with survival you probably shouldnt do a couple of these things
    Damosapien - DPS(whatever spec is better in that teir)/prot Warrior http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...apien/advanced
    Damodrood - Resto/feral(hybrid) Druid http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...drood/advanced
    Damoo - Blood/frost Death knight http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Damoo/simple

  19. #1439
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Tehpounderer, not sure if your the right person to ask, but could you check if the TMI profiles (specially T16H10) is correct ? Not often I have ~440k veng and the custom only gives 120k. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Theck had messed up a decimal or something and it would be corrected in an upcoming build, but not 100% sure.
    540-5 of Simcraft is out. The TMI Boss melee and spell DOT values haven't been changed since 540-4. Here are the last changes Theck checked in and this (the right side) reflects the current state of the code.



    You can see the original typo that I circled that was active in 540-3 where the spell DOT from the T1625H boss was hitting for 600,000 instead of 60,000.

    The order of the values above correlates with this boss list: TMI_NONE, TMI_T15LFR, TMI_T15N, TMI_T15H, TMI_T16_10N, TMI_T16_25N, TMI_T16_10H, TMI_T16_25H so the T1610H values are the second from the end, i.e. melee of 1.9m on 1.5s swing timer and spell DOT of 85,000 I believe applied every 2 seconds. Also, be aware that the melee values are +/-10% so the actual values could be anywhere from 1.71m to 2.09m.

    The TMI bosses are set up this way to allow for more accurate calculation of TMI and may not reflect what you will commonly see because most bosses don't simply melee and spell DOT. They stop meleeing at times to do other things, etc. The values do, however, reflect observed values from logs (according to Theck).

    Finally, you can see this information in the Simcraft report. At the bottom, is a section for the boss. There is a subsection there called Abilities and you can see lots of information about each ability the boss used (see image below).



    Hope this helps.

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    Ran T1625H sims using Eddy's APL on 540-4. DPS increased from 591k to 616k. Heroic strikes went from 38 to 106. DTPS went from 75k to 141k due to the loss of barrier. Eddy, I assume you are NOT recommending I incorporate those changes into the current APL?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, to be clear, I am not one of the Simcraft project members. I just keep an eye on what they are doing and harass them a lot, and I'm more than happy to bring them feedback from this group. I know some of the project members haunt this thread at times too.

  20. #1440
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Well it depends on the fight in all honesty

    The DTPS delta is so high just because of how simcraft is having that static dot at all times, in practice you will not see a change as drastic as that imho
    Its a more offensive playstyle but still pretty damn strong on mitigation as it does enforce maximum shield block uptime and only dumps unnecessary rage into HS's

    I think it would be nice to see the option for both, one for calculating an accurate TMI and one for actual DPS simulations

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