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  1. #1901
    Quote Originally Posted by siccora View Post
    with the add nerf you can kill the add right on top of the boss. just letting your co tank help you with it. but the first one you have to kill it by yourself.
    You were able to do it before for shredders 2+. As long as both tanks have 2-3 stacks of the debuff you were able to kill it with it being next to the boss. On our first kill, we did a 3 tank strat (e.g. Eddy style) and we just stacked my debuffs to 10. Last time we had to go with the regular 2 tank strat and do the alternating stacks like Gliff posted.



  2. #1902
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    Quote Originally Posted by siccora View Post
    with the add nerf you can kill the add right on top of the boss. just letting your co tank help you with it. but the first one you have to kill it by yourself.
    You could kill the first shredder ontop of boss before nerfs, before 4th overload.
    It does force you to go all in, i used reck/avatar/potion. I dont even need cotank to help ;p
    Not that i recommend it but its doable if you want, just take the first 5 stacks and viola.
    Last edited by santa666; 2014-01-30 at 02:50 PM.

  3. #1903
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    You could kill the first shredder ontop of boss before nerfs, before 4th overload.
    It does force you to go all in, i used reck/avatar/potion. I dont even need cotank to help ;p
    Not that i recommend it but its doable if you want, just take the first 5 stacks and viola.
    I hate to be that guy but...... I call bullshit and I won't really believe it unless I see a video or logs.

    I poped everything on the first one (reck/avatar/potion/banner) and was full crit and I still didnt get it below 30% before the death from above. I just can't see anyone killing it with the healing with only 3 stacks.

  4. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    I hate to be that guy but...... I call bullshit and I won't really believe it unless I see a video or logs.

    I poped everything on the first one (reck/avatar/potion/banner) and was full crit and I still didnt get it below 30% before the death from above. I just can't see anyone killing it with the healing with only 3 stacks.
    Thats your problem, the bolded part, if you keep tanking him you'll get 5 stacks

  5. #1905
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    I hate to be that guy but...... I call bullshit and I won't really believe it unless I see a video or logs.
    I don't raid 25 man but I'm inclined to agree... On 10 man atleast No way on earth would you be able to pull off tanking it next to the boss and killing it with only 3 stacks... Only thing I'm not 100% sure of isnt the 3rd overload the one that hits AFTER the DFA? or is that the 4th?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Thats your problem, the bolded part, if you keep tanking him you'll get 5 stacks
    Owkay, in that case the OT also has 0 stacks, so actually having him help out is 100% pointless aswell Wouldn't you get the 5th stack @ the DFA though and therefor always getting the overload he does right when he lands? (Still not sure if 3rd or 4th tbh)
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  6. #1906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    Owkay, in that case the OT also has 0 stacks, so actually having him help out is 100% pointless aswell Wouldn't you get the 5th stack @ the DFA though and therefor always getting the overload he does right when he lands? (Still not sure if 3rd or 4th tbh)
    I didn't kill it before DFA(3rd overload) but you'll do it before 4th overload (think i had a whole second to spare lol)
    This was done during progress, we didn't kill it with this tactic and yes, OT has 0 stacks.

    Again, i dont recommend doing it, doesn't really add any value besides me shutting my cotank up
    Edit. 10man, so you dont have to guess.
    Last edited by santa666; 2014-01-30 at 03:09 PM.

  7. #1907
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Thats your problem, the bolded part, if you keep tanking him you'll get 5 stacks
    Its impossible to get 5 stacks considering the add spawns at 3 stacks and he doesnt do the 5th stack until long after death from above.

    So you are either mistaken/full of shit or you kill the add from 100-0 through the heal in 5 seconds without the death from above extra damage taken debuff.....

    I just dont think it's possible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    I didn't kill it before DFA(3rd overload) but you'll do it before 4th overload (think i had a whole second to spare lol)
    This was done during progress, we didn't kill it with this tactic and yes, OT has 0 stacks.

    Again, i dont recommend doing it, doesn't really add any value besides me shutting my cotank up
    Logs please.

  8. #1908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    Logs please.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/20...alendar/11-13/
    Have fun going trough 329 wipes xD

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    Its impossible to get 5 stacks considering the add spawns at 3 stacks and he doesnt do the 5th stack until long after death from above.

    So you are either mistaken/full of shit or you kill the add from 100-0 through the heal in 5 seconds without the death from above extra damage taken debuff.....

    I just dont think it's possible.
    Why would i lie about it ? And im not misstaken, nor full of shit
    I havent raided for over a month but normal tactic co tank always have 2 stacks when i come back to taunt, which is ~4 seconds after DFA, so i wouldnt say 5th stack is looong after dfa, shit if you take a 4th overload your risking letting stacks fall off.
    Last edited by santa666; 2014-01-30 at 03:18 PM.

  9. #1909
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/20...alendar/11-13/
    Have fun going trough 329 wipes xD

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why would i lie about it ? And im not misstaken, nor full of shit
    I'm gonna go through 329 wipes to prove you are doing something impossible? Ya no. Find the log and I'll believe you. Until then I am willing to bet my account that you are mistaken or full of shit.

  10. #1910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    I'm gonna go through 329 wipes to prove you are doing something impossible? Ya no. Find the log and I'll believe you. Until then I am willing to bet my account that you are mistaken or full of shit.
    Just cause you couldn't do it doesn't make something impossible lol. Maybe 10vs25 man diff ?
    But i feel the same, im not gonna go trough 329 wipes to find the 2 tries where i did it, dont care that much.
    Last edited by santa666; 2014-01-30 at 03:29 PM.

  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Just cause you couldn't do it doesn't make something impossible lol. Maybe 10vs25 man diff ?
    But i feel the same, im not gonna go trough 329 wipes to find the 2 tries where i did it, dont care that much.
    No I'm saying it's impossible because it's impossible. Their health is the EXACT same in 10 and 25 and you are actually at a bigger disadvantage then me because I have more vengeance from the higher auto attack damage in 25 man. You were 569 ilvl on your first kill (which may have been weeks or months from when you accomplished this amazing feat). I was 575 ilvl and full crit build when I got my kill. Like I said, I would not have been anywhere CLOSE to killing it the way you are describing if I had tried.

    I said it before and I'll say it again, I hate being that guy but what you are describing could not and did not happen. But just to be sure (and since I sadly have nothing to do for a few hours) I took 15 minutes and went through the logs you linked.

    I just went through the 108 Heroic Siegecrafter attempts on your logs spread out over 3 months and in not ONE did you take more then 3 stacks in a row to start the fight.

    Sorry man...

  12. #1912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    No I'm saying it's impossible because it's impossible. Their health is the EXACT same in 10 and 25 and you are actually at a bigger disadvantage then me because I have more vengeance from the higher auto attack damage in 25 man. You were 569 ilvl on your first kill (which may have been weeks or months from when you accomplished this amazing feat). I was 575 ilvl and full crit build when I got my kill. Like I said, I would not have been anywhere CLOSE to killing it the way you are describing if I had tried.

    I said it before and I'll say it again, I hate being that guy but what you are describing could not and did not happen. But just to be sure (and since I sadly have nothing to do for a few hours) I took 15 minutes and went through the logs you linked.

    I just went through the 108 Heroic Siegecrafter attempts on your logs spread out over 3 months and in not ONE did you take more then 3 stacks in a row to start the fight.

    Sorry man...
    I'm not saying it's possible. But do remember that if you're tanking the boss for the 4th (and 5th stack) you'll have a lot more vengeance as instead of sitting on ~200k you'll probably have 3-400k + the extra stack. Might be enough with the nerfs if you pop cds and shit.

  13. #1913
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    So, I'm working on Siegecrafter HC and I'm having trouble with killing my add..


    But seriously, I've just switched from Full avoidance to Mastery > Crit. We're only a few bosses deep in heroic progression ( 25m ) and since my guild is pretty casual I want to do my best to remain competitive but ultimately smooth the incoming damage ( hence the change ). Previously I was having no problems in normals parsing high on World of Logs, while staying alive.. Its been a fun patch . I'm pretty resourceful and have been looking around for guides, reading threads and whatnot, but I can't seem to find any concrete advice on how to approach the Mastery>Crit build.

    What I've tried thus far was looking up mastery>crit warriors on Proraiders, and using Simcraft. With Simcraft i'm having it return values on each stat, then plugging them in to AskMrRobot. Would you guys be able to point me to maybe a blogger, or maybe just confirm I'm doing this right before our raid next week.

    *edit* And yeah I haven't swapped the metagem yet. But the gear you see on my armory is all of my mastery/crit gear.
    Last edited by Cyclonus-WOW; 2014-01-30 at 05:49 PM.

  14. #1914
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebubble View Post
    I'm not saying it's possible. But do remember that if you're tanking the boss for the 4th (and 5th stack) you'll have a lot more vengeance as instead of sitting on ~200k you'll probably have 3-400k + the extra stack. Might be enough with the nerfs if you pop cds and shit.
    I have no doubt it is doable NOW after the nerfs and more gear, I'm saying he didnt do it on progression with a 560 ilvl back in October or November when he is claiming to have done it.

  15. #1915
    Well, only speculation remains at this point, but since I like to play with numbers... Maybe it's possible? Before that, AFAIK, 25 man adds did have more of health (in 10m they had 17.8m, 22.8m in 25m?). I guess part of that disbelief comes from there. I was watching the vid from our first kill and on it, and I dropped the add from 60% to 0% with a GCD to spare, bloodbath instead of avatar and the classic 3 stacks. No saw or fire. With 4 stacks the damage is 33% higher, so you could drop him from 80% to 0% in that burst, Avatar, the increased vengeance, and whatever % you managed to drop him to before the burst... The boss healed the shredder 5% each 5 seconds? In my video, the boss healed the add 2 times, if I had remained near the boss it will have healed him 4 times more (+20%), so it would have started at 80%, more or less... Killed it in october, sorry, don't know the ilvl I had then.

    I don't really want to spark a further discussion of whether he did or not, but it doesn't seem >that< impossible. Looking at the numbers, I >think< I could have done it in a reliable way. It's only speculation at this point, but the numbers doesn't seem that bad? Don't know if there is any actual advantage to it, though.
    Last edited by Espada; 2014-01-30 at 06:07 PM.

  16. #1916
    Quote Originally Posted by Espada View Post
    I don't really want to spark a further discussion of whether he did or not, but it doesn't seem >that< impossible. Looking at the numbers, I >think< I could have done it in a reliable way. It's only speculation at this point, but the numbers doesn't seem that bad? Don't know if there is any actual advantage to it, though.
    Bragging rights clearly.

    Well, as I said before, I thought 4th was the DFA one (or well, i was doubting it) adding the extra time I'd not say Impossible, I will say unreliable, dangerous & difficult as fuck, with little to no added advantage if you pull it off.

    (I'd use the word stupid but that seems a bit harsh )
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  17. #1917
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    Bragging rights clearly.

    Well, as I said before, I thought 4th was the DFA one (or well, i was doubting it) adding the extra time I'd not say Impossible, I will say unreliable, dangerous & difficult as fuck, with little to no added advantage if you pull it off.

    (I'd use the word stupid but that seems a bit harsh )
    I guess....

  18. #1918
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    Bragging rights clearly.

    Well, as I said before, I thought 4th was the DFA one (or well, i was doubting it) adding the extra time I'd not say Impossible, I will say unreliable, dangerous & difficult as fuck, with little to no added advantage if you pull it off.

    (I'd use the word stupid but that seems a bit harsh )
    I don't think I understood, why do you say it's not easy to pull off in 10m? You do have the 4th stack for the DfA burst.

  19. #1919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    I have no doubt it is doable NOW after the nerfs and more gear, I'm saying he didnt do it on progression with a 560 ilvl back in October or November when he is claiming to have done it.
    I never mentioned ilvl or date lol. Your making assumptions to validate your belief that its impossible. Whatever floats your boat i guess.
    My first kill was 8th december in 569 gear.

    We had 3 weeks of not even attempting him due to guild issues ^^
    And to really make it clear since its been brought it up multiple times even after me saying it has no advantage.

    It has no real advantage and doesn't add any value, i did it for the sole purpose of shutting my cotank up who insisted of going with a 4/6 stack tactic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    I just went through the 108 Heroic Siegecrafter attempts on your logs spread out over 3 months and in not ONE did you take more then 3 stacks in a row to start the fight.

    Sorry man...
    Scroll back like 5 pages and you'll see the discussion where i explained how stupid the tactic we used to kill him was, i never went above 4 stacks. I'm amazed we spent 3 months on him tho, sick stuff lol.
    Last edited by santa666; 2014-01-31 at 02:07 AM.

  20. #1920
    Quote Originally Posted by kaerthon View Post
    So, I'm working on Siegecrafter HC and I'm having trouble with killing my add..


    But seriously, I've just switched from Full avoidance to Mastery > Crit. We're only a few bosses deep in heroic progression ( 25m ) and since my guild is pretty casual I want to do my best to remain competitive but ultimately smooth the incoming damage ( hence the change ). Previously I was having no problems in normals parsing high on World of Logs, while staying alive.. Its been a fun patch . I'm pretty resourceful and have been looking around for guides, reading threads and whatnot, but I can't seem to find any concrete advice on how to approach the Mastery>Crit build.

    What I've tried thus far was looking up mastery>crit warriors on Proraiders, and using Simcraft. With Simcraft i'm having it return values on each stat, then plugging them in to AskMrRobot. Would you guys be able to point me to maybe a blogger, or maybe just confirm I'm doing this right before our raid next week.

    *edit* And yeah I haven't swapped the metagem yet. But the gear you see on my armory is all of my mastery/crit gear.
    Tank gemming mostly comes down to a combination of what level content you are doing in relation to your gear, how confident you are in your own skills, and how confident you are in your healers' skills. One example is siegecrafter, where you can very easily get way with dps gemming because tank survivability is really only in question at specific points of the fight (electro charge) and that's easily fixed by smart cooldown management. The extreme on the otherside of that is if you were one of those 2nd week of content release ToT progression guilds that got to Ra-den with a 520-530 ilevel and had to stack stamina to deal with the massive amounts of tank damage that he put out. I know its kind of a very situational example, but the point is that it's really up to your discretion with regards how much you think you can get away with. If you, and by extension your healers, feel comfortable with all crit vs all mastery, then there's no reason not to play full crit.
    Last edited by Jetjaguar; 2014-01-31 at 04:52 AM.
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