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  1. #1

    [5.4] Protection Warrior

    As no guide has been written yet for the Protection spec, this useful thread has been stickied as un up-to-date state of the spec.
    Do not hesistate to ask questions, even if we don't have a guide we have plenty of people able to help.
    - Senen



    Protection Warrior FAQ
    Source: Gliff

    Edited: 09/21/13
    Q: I heard about this new ability called Riposte that makes avoidance stat stacking viable in 5.4, but I also heard that Protection Warriors benefit from Crit right now. Should I stack Avoidance or Crit or Mastery?

    A: At the moment there is no wrong answer. There are pluses and minuses to each and you should really decide what works for you and your raid.

    Mastery:
    + The physical damage intake is very smooth with almost no spikes
    + Higher Mastery stats in 5.4 resulting in many crit blocks which in turn give 10 rage
    - Lower benefit from Riposte since your avoidance will be much lower then someone who is stacking avoidance

    Parry/Dodge:
    + Lowest overall damage taken
    + Damage done increases significantly
    + High rage generation due to high crit from Riposte (Shield Slams and Devastates crits = 10 rage) and revenge spam due to revenge CD resetting when you dodge/parry and attack
    -Spikes in damage taken which may result in being more difficult to heal

    Crit:
    +Highest overall DPS
    +Great for off-tanking when you will not be tanking for the vast majority of the fight
    -Highest overall damage taken

    Q: So I decided to stack avoidance. How should I balance my parry and dodge rating?

    A: First of all, whenever you are talking about balancing Parry and dodge rating, you always want to use rating NOT percentage.

    There are 2 ways to approach this.
    1: Balance them using something like THIS to have an "optimal" balance for diminishing returns. (Source: Muuku)

    2. Throw as much into Parry as possible to take advantage of the HOLD THE LINE GLYPH. The downside is that you lose out on some avoidance due to the DR on parry although the amount you lose is very little (a few 10ths of a percentage of avoidance).

    Q: I'm planning on playing my Warrior as Protection this patch, but my tank set is very undergeared. Would it be better to use my DPS gear until I can upgrade to higher ilvl tanking gear?

    A: The DPS gear will be just fine. As mentioned above, crit stacking may not be ideal for your situation, but it is better then using tanking gear that is a tier or 2 behind.

    Q: Should I still Hit/Exp hard-cap?

    A: YES!!! Always

    Q: What is the difference between Shield Block and Shield Barrier? Should I be spamming Shield Barrier if I am stacking avoidance stats?

    A: No matter how you are gearing, you want to keep a 100% possible uptime on you Shield Block if there is any blockable damage incoming. The extra rage should be used on Barriers in between your Shield Blocks.

    There are exceptions to this as always.
    -If high unblockable damage is incoming then it may be a good idea to pool your rage to have full Shield Barriers up for that ability
    -If your vengeance level is high enough that you can spam barriers and take literally zero damage
    -If you are dangerously close to dying, Barrier can be used as an "Oh Shit" button


    Q: What are the BIS trinkets?

    A: Trinkets, as always, are very situation. 90% of the time there will never be 2 BIS trinkets that you use for every fight.

    Q: I heard Glyph of Resonating Power puts Thunder Clap in our single target rotation. Is that true?

    Yes, it would be ahead of devastate.

    Original Post (Leaving this here for the sake of clarity if you choose to read the entire thread.)
    After many posts and (quite a few) complaints, it looks like Blizzard has finally smiled down upon us. I'm sure it will take time to math out what is the most appropriate but the possibility of a Crit>Mastery>*.* or Mastery>Crit>*.* setup sounds absolutely fantastic. It'll be interesting to see how it will play out on the PTR but the possibilities sounds amazing.

    Combining
    Devastate and Shield Slam critical strikes and critical blocks Enrage you, generating 10 Rage and increasing physical damage done by 10% for 6 sec.
    along with
    Item - Warrior T16 Protection 2P Bonus (New) You heal for 30% of all damage blocked with a shield and 30% of all damage absorbed by Shield Barrier.
    could make for some amazing setups, regardless or physical or magical heavy damaging bosses.

    Can you be giddy over patch notes? I am! Here's to hoping it's as good as it looks.

    *STARES AT THECK*
    Last edited by Pariah; 2014-02-24 at 01:40 PM.

    Xpariah
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  2. #2
    Only positive changes! Love them.
    Hopefully this Enrage thingy gets us a bit higher on the damage meters.
    Especially like DPS 4 set and Protection 2 set. Storm bolt looks delicious too.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Confucius's Avatar
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    finally, we're getting some love... I missed crits. 2 set is very nice, probably no point getting the 4 set unless you're flushed with gear and can tiddle around

  4. #4
    Is it just me or does 30% of blocked damage as heal look extremely strong? Makes crit blocks essentially an 80% damage reduction on blockable attacks that don't oneshot you? Combine that with 5.4 mastery levels.

  5. #5
    Dreadlord
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    Let´s say you receive 100 damage, which you block. that would be 30 damage. 30% of those 30 damage would be gained as heal, which would be ROUGHLY 10 damage. 10 damage are 1/10th of the damage total. If you block criticylly, you´d heal yourself for 20 points, being 1/5th of the damage total. still means you´d take 60 damage to the face instead of 70 (normal block) or 20 damage to the face instead of 40 (critical block).

    This. is. awesome.

    Now I wondern, and this is my real question: What will performe nicest? Mastery over all, ignoring hit and exp, hit/exp still > mastery or, our new candidate.. crit. Since Devestate, which is our filler, and Shieldbash will trigger enrage (which makes you gain rage, just reminding), it would be a boost to our damage and survivability. I´m really excited how this works out.
    Quote Originally Posted by magnuzze View Post
    considering that TG warriors was here since Vanilla, and DK's got into the World of warcraft in WoTLK... you can say that they have been stealing 2-handed from us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    There is a reason you don't just pull numbers out of your ass and throw them on the forums. People will show you wrong. Ass numbers are useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrien View Post
    I can't believe warriors wine about their defensive capabilities. DK's and warrs are even on heals.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Sne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delath View Post
    Is it just me or does 30% of blocked damage as heal look extremely strong? Makes crit blocks essentially an 80% damage reduction on blockable attacks that don't oneshot you? Combine that with 5.4 mastery levels.
    Yes it does sound op if it will count for critblocks as i currently can get about 70% mastery buffed, imagine with the coming gear! And thank god for enraged regen going back

  7. #7
    Actually I see no love from the crit change. Prot warriors have 5% chance to crit flat. We may see an increase in enrage uptime of 2-3%.
    In offtank scenarios we will benefit the most since atm we do not get enraged as a tank when not tanking.

    You are allowed to take crit/haste as secondary stats if your defensive abilities profit from it. (Monk, Paladin). Warriors just don't.

    A tank is a tank, is a tank. If there is no benefit from crit other then doing more dps stay away from it or you are playing the wrong role/class!
    Vengeance-whoring is soooo bad. We got tanks that actually sit down to take are crit or sit in fire. WTF. That is retarded.

    I tank with a monk buddy. He sits in full crit + dps meta. I sit in full mastery + tank meta. Of course I'm greedy. His dps is insane and his defensive abilities don't loose much in value. If he is not tanking I can barely keep up in threat with just doing my default rotation as best as I can while actually keeping defensive abilities up. Kind of hilarious atm :/.

    The first T16 tank bonus is absurd...I doubt it will make it through. Totally OP.
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-06-12 at 09:00 AM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    Actually I see no love from the crit change. Prot warriors have 5% chance to crit flat. We may see an increase in enrage uptime of 2-3%.
    In offtank scenarios we will benefit the most since atm we do not get enraged as a tank when not tanking.

    You are allowed to take crit/haste as secondary stats if your defensive abilities profit from it. (Monk, Paladin). Warriors just don't.

    A tank is a tank, is a tank. If there is no benefit from crit other then doing more dps stay away from it or you are playing the wrong role/class!
    Vengeance-whoring is soooo bad. We got tanks that actually sit down to take are crit or sit in fire. WTF. That is retarded.

    I tank with a monk buddy. He sits in full crit + dps meta. I sit in full mastery + tank meta. Of course I'm greedy. His dps is insane and his defensive abilities don't loose much in value. If he is not tanking I can barely keep up in threat with just doing my default rotation as best as I can while actually keeping defensive abilities up. Kind of hilarious atm :/.

    The first T16 tank bonus is absurd...I doubt it will make it through. Totally OP.
    Crit = Enrage = More Rage = Active Mitigation

    It's hard to see what will be the best stat prio but yeah, changes looking good so far.

  9. #9
    I'm sorry that is just not true.

    Enrage does not proc rage back-to-back. There is a 3 second delimiter that prevents rage from generating rapidly. That is basically to prevent the rage-spam when fighting 20 white mobs.

    Additionally it is no problem at all to do the full Shield Block rotation. The only benefit would be that you could now use Shield Barrier ontop of a block.

    But who actually tried doing that knows that there is a problem. Once your block is on CD and you are sitting on 40-60 rage and use barrier you will deplete your rage pool completly. This will most likely delay your next Shield Block because you will find it very hard to get your rage back up to 60 quickly. That is especially the case if a mob is casting and thus not generating revenge procs or if you got a bad luck with procing SS from Devastate.
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-06-12 at 09:42 AM.
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    "I wonder what the non-pathetic people are doing tonight?" - Rajesh Koothrappali (The Big Bang Theory)

  10. #10
    Biggest problem now is if i'll take the DPS or Tanking cloak tonight when I get home... >.< GAH!

    Mastery, Crit, Haste vs Mastery, Parry, Dodge.
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  11. #11
    Even tho Parry/Dodge feels outdated (I still like parry), I don't think you'll benefit enough from the crit/haste for it to be worth taking. The DPS meta gem is another story tho.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    I'm sorry that is just not true.

    Enrage does not proc rage back-to-back. There is a 3 second delimiter that prevents rage from generating rapidly. That is basically to prevent the rage-spam when fighting 20 white mobs.

    Additionally it is no problem at all to do the full Shield Block rotation. The only benefit would be that you could now use Shield Barrier ontop of a block.

    But who actually tried doing that knows that there is a problem. Once your block is on CD and you are sitting on 40-60 rage and use barrier you will deplete your rage pool completly. This will most likely delay your next Shield Block because you will find it very hard to get your rage back up to 60 quickly. That is especially the case if a mob is casting and thus not generating revenge procs or if you got a bad luck with procing SS from Devastate.
    Well, they will probably keep the icd of rage for crit blocks, but will make rage gain from crit specials not tied to it. If it were tied crit would have next to zero def value, and then... Why would they bother to do the change?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by zorker View Post
    I'm sorry that is just not true.

    Enrage does not proc rage back-to-back. There is a 3 second delimiter that prevents rage from generating rapidly. That is basically to prevent the rage-spam when fighting 20 white mobs.
    It's possible that they'll change that so that that's only Enrages from crit blocks. I wouldn't be surprised to see that, but we'll have to see testing to be sure.

  14. #14
    I agree with Zorker, wrote a post about it earlier today http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-5-4-PTR-notes.

    The size of the Enrage pie is fixed at 100%. With a well geared tank and a fight where the boss is on you 100% of the time you can expect a 45%-55% enrage uptime from critical block alone leaving a potential 45%-55% additional enrage time. Assuming crit was the second most valuable secondary stat behind mastery (I don't belive it is) it would have to compete with mastery for enrage generation.

    The problem is these stats act negatively, that is the more mastery you have the less value you get from crit for dps and vice versa due to overlapping enrages. As Zorker pointed out the only time you would get max benefit from crit for dps is when off tanking since mastery based enrages are removed.

    The above is of course not taking in to effect the base damage increase from crit, only enrage damage.


    As for the defensive benefits of crit I calculated the rage per second generation for both crit and mastery for the following logs. They arn't my own as I am taking a break from serious raiding atm.

    www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-f6pk0qjhjjq2iwnh/



    Jin'rokh the Breaker 25H (03:02)
    Rage per Second (1000 Crit) - 0.0274725274725275
    Rage per Second (1000 Mastery) - 0.006399750153754



    Horridon 25H (09:35)
    Rage per Second (1000 Crit) - 0.0550724637681159
    Rage per Second (1000 Mastery) - 0.0263335806326643



    Tortos 25H (05:40)
    Rage per Second (1000 Crit) - 0.0490196078431373
    Rage per Second (1000 Mastery) - 0.0411089833405845



    Megaera 25H (07:45)
    Rage per Second (1000 Crit) - 0.0609318996415771
    Rage per Second (1000 Mastery) - 0.0025048484472758



    The variations in mastery rage generation can be attributed to % of combat time with boss on the warrior tank as well as shield block usage. I feel the best two to use are Tortos and Megaera since the tank has close to 100% incoming damage.

    Aoe damage aside incoming damage for tortos is 100% melee. In this situation where shield block usage is high we can see that crit just outperforms mastery in terms of rage regeneration. This does not of course take in to consideration masteries primary usage which is block.

    With Megaeta shield barrier is used more often and we can see rage return from mastery is much lower. In truth on this encounter crit is competing more with dodge and parry though I can't think of a way to compare these stats without modeling.



    So in a situation where mastery is being used to its full potential we see crit barely outperforming it in rage generation. When you take in to consider rage generation is just a benefit of mastery rather than it's primary purpose I think its safe to say that crit will be a very poor defensive stat.

    Which leads me to the question I posted originally earlier today. What is this change meant to address. We are not going to want crit on our gear nor will the change bring us anywhere near close to the damage output of other tanks. I hope they don't use this change as a license to put crit gear on our tier.

  15. #15
    No chances that would warrant me switching back to my warrior after jumping onto the Monk train.. Hope blizz makes this awesome somehow.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dodonpachi View Post
    Which leads me to the question I posted originally earlier today. What is this change meant to address. We are not going to want crit on our gear nor will the change bring us anywhere near close to the damage output of other tanks. I hope they don't use this change as a license to put crit gear on our tier.
    Someone said it before, maybe it's *something* for the situation when we're offtanking. Can't see how we don't want to just cap mastery (~ 22k IIRC) and add more stamina (45% of your maximum hitpoints healed with each impending victory!) and/or avoidance afterwards.

    2 piece looks really solid, that's a bonus we can expect from the final tier. But that bonus alone can't save us, where are the much needed changes to keep all tanks in line?

  17. #17
    We're going to see more ramp up if this doesn't play out the way we initially think.

    This is very much an attempt to change the protection warrior to follow the model of the other tanks, especially Monks and Paladins. The change to Enrage ICD based on SS & Deva crits I think is a foregone conclusion. If this change does not make it justifiable, or even semi-justifiable, then more will come. This is all perfectly align with my prediction that dodge/parry will be removed from gear in 6.0. Everything seems to point towards it.

    Also, I'm willing to give up some mitigation to be a competitive DPS in my raid as a protection warrior. We're already an excellent mitigation tank-- if I need to throw some of that away: I'm fine with it, as I imagine other progression based protection warriors are.

    We need to keep talking about this though. We need to make sure Blizzard knows what the consensus is before 5.4 drops and the buff wasn't significant enough.
    Last edited by Pariah; 2013-06-12 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Spelling

    Xpariah
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  18. #18
    It's a step in the right direction making crit borderline useful for prot warriors, but as others pointed out it might not be enough, maybe if crit contributed in a small way to Crit block chance or the ammount blocked by crit blocks.

    Since Monks get the whole dps + mitigation cakes and get to eat them too, it would only be fair to give prot warriors (and DKs and pallies) the same offensive gearing option. Avoidance gear is a totally outdated concept anway, no gives a crap about parry/dodge these days.

    Why the hell should a mainspec monk dps be able to switch to his tank spec and do exceptionally well with the same gear set, but as a mainspec dps warrior I get shafted hard going prot? It's fun tanking in dps gear, but it's disheartening that none of the crit or haste on my gear can contribute AT ALL to my survival.

    And I don't see why a prot warrior should be doing less than half the dps of a Brewmaster with avoidance/mastery gear when they can also mitigate just as well as a warrior (propably better.. they can stagger HC Lei Decapitates to the face over and over rotating small cds, warrior is lucky to survive 1 with all cds up).

    So after crit they also need to figure out how to make haste a thing. They could always bring back auto-attack rage, but then again rage gen is already spread all over the place as it is.. Maybe if auto-attacks could proc Sword and Board? Would be pretty sweet.
    Ikelos@Argent Dawn EU

  19. #19
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    as a DPS warrior, its like you prot warriors are mexicans crossing the border:

    "Dey took our gears!"

    I hope the changes go through. I have been tanking LFR in my DPS gear and it has been a blast. This 'should' make prot warriors very desireable. On topic: are we still looking like we can mastery cap and how would the t15 dps 4 DPS set bonus play out with active mitigation in the new model?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    2 piece looks really solid, that's a bonus we can expect from the final tier. But that bonus alone can't save us, where are the much needed changes to keep all tanks in line?
    I think its safe to assume the 2pc won't stay in its current form. Lets look;

    - 100% critical block reachable
    - Critical Block reduces damage by 60%
    - 2pc Heals additional 18%
    - Actual damage to tank 22% of hit for every blockable hit during shield block
    Last edited by dodonpachi; 2013-06-12 at 02:18 PM.

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