[5.4] Protection Warrior

[excip]

hey

With this ID we have 3 ids left until 5.4 and I haven't seen actual numbers on protection warriors. At the moment all predictions that I see are more like: " I think.." , " It seems..." so it's all very vague and there is no actual mathematical proof that Stat X gives you the most smoothing for example. If something like that exists please let me know.

So what I would really be interested in is the TMI(Theck-Meloree-Index) values. I messed around with the 530-6 version of simcraft but the results that I get for my EVILTwinPTR just don't make sense whatsoever. So it looks like they haven't implemented the new prot warrior mechanics into the code I guess?

Some question that I want a numerical answer to would be:

What will be the best smoothing stat?

If it's mastery until crit block cap does the stat priority change significantly after that?

which stat gives me the most DPS?

what is the loss in smoothing if I focus on a stat that gives me the most damage?

is there a way to push dps and maintain a good smoothing of the damage?

what exactly is the value of crit in both terms of smoothing and damage especially after crit block cap?

[Deleted]

You should try EJ if you have issues with SimC. The thing is utterly dead, but there was a guy there keeping up the prot warrior module for simcraft. It was the first tank mod that they put up, would be sad if they haven't keep up. Theck also seems to care for all tank mods. What did you get that it didn't make sense, anyways? I simmed it and got: Sta > Mastery > Exp ~= Hit ~= Armor ~= Dodge ~= Str ~= Parry ~= Crit as smoothing stats. Seems solid.

[Deleted]

Haven't seen anyone besides Theck doing the *real* math behind the curtains (not only on his blog but most of the work on simcraft as well) for a long time so it's probably best to ask him for numerical answers.

[Deleted]

what about legendary meta and back?shall we still use dps ones even with the nerf?

[Gliff]

what about legendary meta and back?shall we still use dps ones even with the nerf?

Both tank. No question unless you have literally ZERO chance of dying.

[Tofifi]

Unless I'm getting really raped on some fight (doubt it on 10m) I'll swap to the tank gem just for it, otherwise I'll stick to DPS one. As for the tank cloak the proc is so useless..., unless you are getting one-shotted from 50% health. If it healed you too it would have been better.

[Gliff]

Unless I'm getting really raped on some fight (doubt it on 10m) I'll swap to the tank gem just for it, otherwise I'll stick to DPS one. As for the tank cloak the proc is so useless..., unless you are getting one-shotted from 50% health. If it healed you too it would have been better.

.........The tanking cloak is useless? You never played a Paladin with passive AD did you?

[Nillo]

.........The tanking cloak is useless? You never played a Paladin with passive AD did you?

AD/Purgatory are fairly independant of the size of the hit though whereas the cloak only really works well with a massive attack.
Anywho since the itemization is significantly better than the dps cloak for warriors there isn't really much of a point in using the dps cloak.

[Trubo]

what about legendary meta and back?shall we still use dps ones even with the nerf?

Tank meta due to it working on all types of damage now. As for the cloak I'd use the Tank Cloak if I were afraid of dying, otherwise I'd go with the DPS Cloak even with its reduced proc chance and suboptimal stats.

[Gliff]

AD/Purgatory are fairly independant of the size of the hit though whereas the cloak only really works well with a massive attack.
Anywho since the itemization is significantly better than the dps cloak for warriors there isn't really much of a point in using the dps cloak.

The old AD only healed you to 15% health (I believe). I cant think of any boss on 25 that hits for less then 15% of my health. Especially if I am not stacking stam next patch.

http://www.twitch.tv/gliff_

We are doing the first 4 bosses tonight if anyone wants to check it out.

[Deleted]

After reading Warlock changes on friday, I ran off to a remote cave and cried for the entire weekend. This morning I had to come out to feed and stumbled upon changes of my dormant exmain character. Finally feeling some warm happiness, so if I didn't just pee myself, things are looking bright. Off to read up on the rest.

[Deleted]

Speaking about dps cloak(proc), on average how much dps after the nerfs ? useless like the meta ?

[Tehpounderer]

So what I would really be interested in is the TMI values. I messed around with the 530-6 version of simcraft but the results that I get for my EVILTwinPTR just don't make sense whatsoever. So it looks like they haven't implemented the new prot warrior mechanics into the code I guess?

Some question that I want a numerical answer to would be:

What will be the best smoothing stat?

If it's mastery until crit block cap does the stat priority change significantly after that?

which stat gives me the most DPS?

what is the loss in smoothing if I focus on a stat that gives me the most damage?

is there a way to push dps and maintain a good smoothing of the damage?

what exactly is the value of crit in both terms of smoothing and damage especially after crit block cap?

530-6 of simcraft does not include a functioning Riposte mechanic. You will see the buff uptime, but the crit rating is not being correctly applied. This has been fixed in a revision since then but a new build has not been generated since then so if you want to play with it you will need to download the code and build it yourself. Also, just in the last 4 hours code changes were checked in to model the T16 Prot 2pc bonus. Still outstanding is the 4pc bonus. I will try to get to running some sims when I can and posting the results here.

According to the latest code (simming the PTR - minus this morning's changes) the best smoothing stat by far is Stamina (10), Hit/Exp (8), Mastery (5), Dodge/Parry (4), Strength (1.5). The numbers in parentheses are their approximate weight.

Crit is your best DPS stat (assuming you are Hit/Exp capped)... Crit (14), Wdps (13), Dodge/Parry (11), Strength (10)

My best DPS and TMI were achieved stacking Stamina and Dodge/Parry over Mastery while maintaining high Hit/Exp levels. I think my final T16 BiS gear list (remarkably similar to what has been previously posted) had about 3k mastery total and iirc 22kish dodge/parry. I don't expect the prot 2pc to change this dramatically.

Final note: All this simming was done with an action priority list that attempts to keep up Shield Block and use Barrier with excess rage only (and it still did not prefer Mastery). I haven't fooled around yet with spamming Barrier only. I will warn you that the default APL does not attempt to maximize DPS and is only a basic mitigation rotation. I'll try to get the APL I've been using posted here.

EDIT: The EvilTwinPTR seems off for me too, try simming PTR only rather than both to get numbers that make sense.

- - - Updated - - -

So I rebuilt Simc using the latest code that models the T16 Prot 2pc. I also equipped a set of gear that is very nearly the BiS list posted here recently. I used a set of stat weights that favors Stam > Hit/Exp > Parry/Dodge> Crit > Mastery > Armor > Strength > Haste. You will notice this is a mix of DPS and Survival stats but it likely made little difference as the gear set seems to stay pretty consistent. Also, I did this fast so I have no ownership in the correctness of any of it, feel free to point out mistakes or alternatives. This was run using the T16Q boss which I suspect is a placeholder until they tweak the size of the melee hits. However, for reference, it hit me for 312153 unblocked after mitigation from 80471 armor, if someone wants to do the math. It melees like that every 1.5 seconds. Plus a spell DOT (standard TMI style boss). Also stats below but 1.13m hp raid buffed.


The Gear

Average Item Level: 581.12
Head faceguard_of_the_prehistoric_marauder,id=99409,upgrade=2,gems=indomitable_primal_160parry_ 120sta,reforge=mastery_dodge
Neck blackfuses_blasting_cord,id=105622,upgrade=2
Shoulders pauldrons_of_violent_eruption,id=105416,upgrade=2,gems=160parry_160mastery_320mastery_120p arry,enchant=300sta_100dodge
Chest earthbreakers_steaming_chestplate,id=105512,upgrade=2,gems=160parry_120sta_160dodge_120sta _240sta,enchant=300sta
Waist untarnishable_greatbelt,id=105587,upgrade=2,gems=320exp_160hit_120sta_240sta,addon=nitro_b oosts,reforge=mastery_dodge
Legs legguards_of_the_prehistoric_marauder,id=99410,upgrade=2,gems=160dodge_120sta_160dodge_120 sta,enchant=430sta_165dodge
Feet ominous_mogu_greatboots,id=105588,upgrade=2,gems=240sta,enchant=140mastery
Wrists bracers_of_sordid_sleep,id=105415,upgrade=2,gems=240sta,enchant=170dodge
Hands shockstriker_gauntlets,id=105435,upgrade=2,gems=160parry_120sta_240sta_240sta,enchant=150s ta,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
Finger1 galakrond_control_band,id=105492,upgrade=2,gems=240sta
Finger2 ring_of_the_iron_tomb,id=105536,upgrade=2,gems=160dodge_120sta,reforge=hit_parry
Trinket1 curse_of_hubris,id=105645,upgrade=2
Trinket2 vial_of_living_corruption,id=105568,upgrade=2
Back qianying_fortitude_of_niuzao,id=102250,upgrade=2,gems=320exp,enchant=200sta,reforge=master y_dodge
Main Hand encapsulated_essence_of_immerseus,id=105417,upgrade=2,gems=320exp,enchant=rivers_song
Off Hand hellscreams_shield_wall,id=105693,upgrade=2,gems=320exp_320exp,enchant=170parry,reforge=ma stery_parry


My Stats, Raidbuffed

Raid-Buffed Unbuffed Gear Amount
Strength 26011 24772 24772
Stamina 70345 62139 51471
Health 1131233 1016349 0
Att Power 57466 49764 240
Melee Hit 6.89% 6.89% 2341
Melee Crit 10.01% 5.01% 0
Expertise 14.47% 14.47% 4920
Armor 80471 80471 64377
Tank-Miss 3.00% 3.00% 0
Tank-Ddge 17.86% 17.62% 12390
Tank-Parry 41.51% 40.54% 14621
Tank-Block 22.26% 19.92% 0
Tank-Crit -6.00% -6.00% 0
Mastery 41.49% 30.49% 3514

My Action Priority List (about 290k dps with this and the gear).

actions.precombat=flask,type=earth
actions.precombat+=/food,type=great_pandaren_banquet
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/stance,choose=defensive
actions.precombat+=/battle_shout
actions.precombat+=/berserker_rage
actions.precombat+=/mogu_power_potion

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=auto_attack
actions+=/berserker_rage,if=buff.enrage.down&rage<=rage.max-10
actions+=/shield_wall,if=incoming_damage_2500ms>health.max*0.6
actions+=/last_stand,if=incoming_damage_2500ms>health.max*0.6&buff.shield_wall.down
actions+=/run_action_list,name=dps_cds,if=stat.attack_power>health.max*0.20
actions+=/run_action_list,name=normal_rotation


actions.normal_rotation=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up
actions.normal_rotation+=/shield_slam,if=rage<75
actions.normal_rotation+=/revenge,if=rage<75
actions.normal_rotation+=/battle_shout,if=rage<80
actions.normal_rotation+=/shield_block
actions.normal_rotation+=/shield_barrier,if=buff.shield_barrier.down&rage>80
actions.normal_rotation+=/thunder_clap,if=target.debuff.weakened_blows.down
actions.normal_rotation+=/demoralizing_shout
actions.normal_rotation+=/impending_victory,if=talent.impending_victory.enabled
actions.normal_rotation+=/victory_rush,if=!talent.impending_victory.enabled
actions.normal_rotation+=/devastate

actions.dps_cds=/mogu_power_potion
actions.dps_cds+=/avatar,if=talent.avatar.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/bloodbath,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/blood_fury,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/dragon_roar,if=talent.dragon_roar.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/shattering_throw
actions.dps_cds+=/skull_banner
actions.dps_cds+=/recklessness
actions.dps_cds+=/storm_bolt,if=talent.storm_bolt.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/run_action_list,name=normal_rotation

Basically, makes sure you don't die with Last Stand and Shield Wall, blows DPS cooldowns is vengeance is high enough, otherwise normal rotation.

DPS Stat Weights

Hit 7.77
Exp 7.68
Crit 3.58
Parry 2.81
Dodge 2.67
Str 2.05
Haste 1.12

Smoothness Stat Weights (TMI) are useless at this gear level with this boss. With a TMI in the hundreds where you are basically in NO danger of dying, the weights are of little value, yet here they are.

Hit/Exp -0.05
Mastery -0.03
Parry/Dodge -0.02
Str -0.01
Sta -0.00

If you are wondering why they are negative numbers, read Theck's explanation of TMI at sacred duty.



NOTES: I'm a blacksmith/engineer so you see extra slots and synapse springs, etc on the gear, just take it off if you need to. Also, the two sets of stat weights are unrelated to each other. It is only useful for seeing that Hit/Exp and Dodge/Parry are both extremely useful for DPS and TMI. Coorelating and weighting the two I will leave for someone smarter than me (if it can even be done).

[Deleted]

Updated Diminishing Returns Coefficients – All Tanks
In case you missed the updated DR thread:

http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/08/08...nts-all-tanks/

So, to summarize for Warriors:

$k = 0.9560000(78) \pm 0.000000011$
$C_d = 90.64254(65) \pm 0.0000052$
$C_p = 237.1860(91) \pm 0.000057$
$C_b = 150.375(68) \pm 0.00015$

Warriors also get 1% parry from 951.158596 strength and 1% dodge from 10000 agility.

$Q_s = 951.158596
$Q_a = 10000

parry rating 885 = 1%
dodge rating 885 = 1%

Dictionary

• $C_p is the parry cap
• $C_d is the dodge cap
• $C_b is the block cap
• $k is the scale factor
• $Q_s is the strength-to-parry conversion factor
• $Q_a is the agility-to-dodge conversion factors, this is assumed to be exact based on fitting residuals
• ${\rm Parry}$, ${\rm Dodge}$, and ${\rm Block}$ are your post-DR parry, dodge, and block values (on the character sheet).
• ${\rm preParry}$ and ${\rm preDodge}$ are the pre-DR values given in the parry and dodge tooltips.
• ${\rm roundedBlock = ROUND(128*preBlock)/128}$ is the 8-bit binary-rounded block value used in the Block DR equation.
• ${\rm preBlock}$ is your pre-DR block percentage rounded in binary form (for paladins this is just their mastery, i.e., if you have 20% mastery, ${\rm preBlock}=20$; for warriors it’s ${\rm masteryPercent}*0.5/2.2$).
• ${\rm Str}$, and ${\rm Agi}$ are your character sheet strength and agility values.
• ${\rm baseStr}$ is your base strength (naked, unbuffed).

Dodge, parry, block caps

dodge = 90.64254
parry = 237.186
block = 150.375

Spreadsheet

I think the spreadsheet has the current numbers in already. Some are off at the last didgit but that should do no harm.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jYk52akE#gid=0
Source

DR Formulas

Source:
http://www.sacredduty.net/2012/07/02...in-mop-part-1/
http://www.sacredduty.net/2012/07/04...in-mop-part-2/
http://www.sacredduty.net/2012/07/06...in-mop-part-3/
http://www.sacredduty.net/2012/09/14...-mop-followup/

Parry Diminishing Returns

${\rm Parry} = 3 + \frac{\rm baseStr}{Q_s} + \left (\frac{1}{C_p} + \frac{k}{({\rm Str}-{\rm baseStr})/Q_s+{\rm preParry}}\right)^{-1}\large$

Dodge Diminishing Returns

${\rm Dodge} = 3 + 2 + \frac{\rm baseAgi}{Q_a} + \left (\frac{1}{C_d} + \frac{k}{({\rm Agi}-{\rm baseAgi})/Q_a+{\rm preDodge}} \right)^{-1}\large$

Block Diminishing Returns

${\rm Block} = 3 + 10 + \left(\frac{1}{C_b}+\frac{k}{\rm roundedBlock} \right )^{-1}\large$

Important, the link is from last year. Values may have changed. Formulas have not. Make sure to use the current values.

Formulas (readable )

--constants
SCALE_FACTOR          = 0.9560000
RATING_PER_PERCENT    = 885
PARRY_CAP             = 237.1860
STRENGTH_PARRY_FACTOR = 951.158596
DODGE_CAP             = 90.64254
AGILITY_DODGE_FACTOR  = 10000

--parry data
BASE_PARRY            = 3
NAKED_STRENGTH        = 200
CHAR_STRENGTH         = 14000
CHAR_PARRY_RATING     = 10000

--dodge data
BASE_DODGE            = 5
NAKED_AGILITY         = 100
CHAR_AGILITY          = 100
CHAR_DODGE_RATING     = 5000

--formulas
PARRY_WITHOUT_DR      = BASE_PARRY + NAKED_STRENGTH/STRENGTH_PARRY_FACTOR + (CHAR_STRENGTH - NAKED_STRENGTH)/STRENGTH_PARRY_FACTOR + CHAR_PARRY_RATING/RATING_PER_PERCENT
PARRY_AFTER_DR        = BASE_PARRY + NAKED_STRENGTH/STRENGTH_PARRY_FACTOR + (1/PARRY_CAP + (SCALE_FACTOR/(((CHAR_STRENGTH - NAKED_STRENGTH)/STRENGTH_PARRY_FACTOR) + CHAR_PARRY_RATING/RATING_PER_PERCENT)))^-1

DODGE_WITHOUT_DR      = BASE_DODGE + NAKED_AGILITY/AGILITY_DODGE_FACTOR + (CHAR_AGILITY - NAKED_AGILITY)/AGILITY_DODGE_FACTOR + CHAR_DODGE_RATING/RATING_PER_PERCENT
DODGE_AFTER_DR        = BASE_DODGE + NAKED_AGILITY/AGILITY_DODGE_FACTOR + (1/DODGE_CAP + (SCALE_FACTOR/(((CHAR_AGILITY - NAKED_AGILITY)/AGILITY_DODGE_FACTOR) + CHAR_DODGE_RATING/RATING_PER_PERCENT)))^-1

- - - Updated - - -

I made a spreadsheet for myself aswell.

- - - Updated - - -

So I took the values a bit further. The following shows the rating to percentage conversion for dodge and parry. Since parry is under the effect of str conversion different str sizes are observated.



- - - Updated - - -

Now comes the most important graphic. It compares the net avoidance gain of dodge vs. parry under certain strength scenarios. And it shows quite an interesting effect.



With 0 STR it is NEVER better to gem Dodge > Parry.
With 15k STR there is a sweet spot at around 12k rating.
With 30k STR the sweet spot is at around 20k rating.

[Deleted]

@zork
You're late to the party. We already had the convo about updated DR numbers a few days back, Theck's post is three weeks old

[...] Depending on your strength and your dodge/parry there is actually quite a huge avoidance difference and whoever said you should gem DODGE > PARRY is right. This is especially true the higher your STR value is going. Characters with 30k strength need a ton of dodge rating to compensate.

I thought the difference is small. It is not, it's huge!

Tehpounderer has some sort of fully upgraded BiS gear there one post above with 26000 strength raidbuffed, but let's stick to your 30k strength:

at 25k rating it's (parry:dodge in k)
15:10 vs 10:15 = 0.32% difference

at 30k rating it's
20:10 vs 10:20 = 0.35% difference

But both being extreme ends. With some more optimisation you could reach the optimal post-DR D/P ratio with 13650:16350 and we'd talk about 0.5% gained avoidance. But we're also talking about 57% total avoidance post DR already. Can you really notice the difference between 56.5%, 57% and 57.5% avoidance outside of a graph or character sheet? I'll avoid every second hit on average an that's about it, nothing to rely on but enough to make a reasonable impact on our defensive play and the AM usage depending on the situation we're into.

[Deleted]

Yes you are correct. The difference is smaller than my graph made me believe it is. So I revert that assumption.

ratio: 25/0     ratio: 20/5     ratio: 15/10    ratio: 10/15    ratio: 5/20     ratio: 0/25
57,58           59,35           60,32           60,59           60,26           59,31
3,01            1,24            0,27            0               0,33            1,28

ratio: parry / dodge rating
example with 30k str and 25k rating

[Deleted]

Nerfed our Lolstorm from 240% wep dmg to 160%? This is pretty weird nerf as the current version is shit? Or do they fear some prot warrior could actually use it? I hope its an error..

[Deleted]

No such a nerf is mostly PvP related.

[Deleted]

edit: figured it out, 240% with a onehander, 120% with a twohander. They changed only that in T14.

Nerfed our Lolstorm from 240% wep dmg to 160%?

Due to the high amount of aoe fights in SoO bladestorm was actually quite strong for it's cooldown/uptime, netting you roughly 15% of your total damage for hitting a button every minute.

So yes, it's a nerf.

[Damosapien]

seems awfully big considering BS was a dps loss compared to roar and shockwave for the entirety of mop so far as prot