1. #1121
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago View Post
    Thanks man! Sould I macro BR with anything specific or just hit it when rage is below 90?

    I've been using Avatar for extra threat, but since the buff this patch, I'll switch for BB and also should I macro it with something, perhaps DR?
    I wouldn't personally macro two abilities together tbh as its nice to have control over each individual one, like zerker rage for example if you get feared off anything its annoying if a macro then puts it on CD for you
    Same with BB / DR, I'd keep them separate but a great combo is to pop Skull Banner and BB then go with a big DR then pop reck and continue smashing away with a HR'ed Shield Slam, the numbers are quite gorgeous :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    I killed it easily in NM the first week while I didn't know you could reflect his spells.
    Yeah I had no idea either tbh, on heroic either for the first reset... just interrupted or ate like a hero lol :P

  2. #1122
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    I wouldn't personally macro two abilities together tbh as its nice to have control over each individual one, like zerker rage for example if you get feared off anything its annoying if a macro then puts it on CD for you
    Same with BB / DR, I'd keep them separate but a great combo is to pop Skull Banner and BB then go with a big DR then pop reck and continue smashing away with a HR'ed Shield Slam, the numbers are quite gorgeous :P
    Thanks again Eddy.

  3. #1123
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    any way to get this thread stickyed? Whenever i see some one ask about prot war basics or want info to prot wars I always refer to this site and thread but at time's it looks like it does not exist as there is only the dps one sticked for 5.4 atm.

  4. #1124
    We hesitated to sticky this thread as a proper Guide would be better. For now, there is a link to this thread into the "Warrior discussion" sticky.

    It is not set in stone and maybe this thread will eventually be stickied but we're more thinking about writing our own guide to have a proper sticky for the spec.
    Warrior soloing spreadsheet.

    Ittle Dew (Any%): 12:13
    Super Meat Boy (Any%): 21:50

  5. #1125
    Mechagnome
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    Thanks for the help guys, I won't be able to tell you if it worked, he is no longer raiding with us. =]

  6. #1126
    I'd gladly compile everything and forge it into a proper guide, if you guys wanted. I'd just need a few days (and maybe a helper or two) to sift through the thread and get everything.

  7. #1127
    What are the numbers on Shield Block and Barrier after all these changes and with an avoidance build, concerning mitigation and smoothing?

    I find that on Garrosh for example my health will be more stable if I spend more rage on Barrier, that's anecdotal evidence though. Perhaps it is because Barrier will give you more value upfront, while Shield Block's value is strewn over 6s? I feel more in control of my health % by just popping barrier when I am in danger, i.e. < 60% hp.

  8. #1128
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow-cleave View Post
    I'd gladly compile everything and forge it into a proper guide, if you guys wanted. I'd just need a few days (and maybe a helper or two) to sift through the thread and get everything.
    Pretty sure one of the mods is already working on one.

  9. #1129
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnome Tank View Post
    What are the numbers on Shield Block and Barrier after all these changes and with an avoidance build, concerning mitigation and smoothing?

    I find that on Garrosh for example my health will be more stable if I spend more rage on Barrier, that's anecdotal evidence though. Perhaps it is because Barrier will give you more value upfront, while Shield Block's value is strewn over 6s? I feel more in control of my health % by just popping barrier when I am in danger, i.e. < 60% hp.
    My rule is that as long as I'm not in danger of dying to non-autohit damage priority goes to Shield Block just because it's more dps and already does a decent job at autohit damage reduction.
    Haven't tanked Garrosh on my war yet so my guess would be to swap to SBar in p2 at 1-2 dot stacks.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  10. #1130
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnome Tank View Post
    What are the numbers on Shield Block and Barrier after all these changes and with an avoidance build, concerning mitigation and smoothing?

    I find that on Garrosh for example my health will be more stable if I spend more rage on Barrier, that's anecdotal evidence though. Perhaps it is because Barrier will give you more value upfront, while Shield Block's value is strewn over 6s? I feel more in control of my health % by just popping barrier when I am in danger, i.e. < 60% hp.
    Check https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...S1mRUZ6eV9IVWc
    and http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e#post22517083

    Armor reduction, Vengeance and Stamina play quite an important factor.

    The higher the armor reduction the more beneficial the reduction of barrier will become. That is because it is an absolute reduction and no percentage reduction like block.

    Mostly in an avoidance build you are low on mastery thus a 60% block can not be counted on.

    Lets assume we are encountering a hard-hitter.

    3,000,000 damage every 1,5seconds
    600k Vengeance
    50,000 Stamina
    65.00% Armor Reduction

    Reduction comparsion:
    block = 30%
    crit block = 60%
    20rage barrier = 46%
    40rage barrier = 91%
    60rage barrier = 137%

    You can even combine both.

    But as you can tell already...if you do not crit-block and are sitting on high armor a simple barrier can be >45% reduction. The more rage you put in the barrier the more it will absorb.

    Important...the reduction on barrier is bound to your Vengeance until your fall under the stamina part of the shield barrier formula. Thus if your armor reduction is static you keep the 46% reduction for the full Vengeance range. Same goes for block.

    Shield barrier is veeeery good, but you need to take that with a grain of salt. A block will safe you for 6 seconds.
    A barrier will just eat up one hit. You may be lucky and get a Revenge/SS in the global and get another 20 rage for a new barrier but that cannot be kept on forever and normally you do not want to be catched without any sort of mitigation ever.

    I would use block all the time and on block downtime use barrier/demo.

    But...as Theck mentioned in one of his writeups. If you already took a large hit you may need to buy your healers time to get you back up. A block may not safe your ass, but a barrier can.

    But in the end it is close.

    A 60rage barrier = 137% reduction. Over 6 seconds and if you assume 4 enemy hits (aka 1.5sec hit timer) block will add up to 120-240% reduction. If you can gain over 80 rage in 6 seconds you could do a 60 rage barrier and a 20 rage barrier netting you 183% reduction over the course of 6 seconds. Getting 80 rage is not impossible with all the enrage procs nowadays.

    Slow enemy hits+hard hits = 60 rage barrier
    Fast enemy hits = block+barrier

    On the damage done front you probably want to optimize HR buff uptime.
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-10-02 at 08:23 AM.
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  11. #1131
    Well if you're so low on vengeance that stamina is the deciding factor for SBar you generally don't need to worry about reducing damage anyway -> Shield Block all the way.


    Also those numbers are completely inflated.
    65% armor is insane - that's like 85k armor
    600k vengeance also completely inflated - the only fight I'd get close to that is the slow stacking dot on normal IJ - everything else with that magnitude of damage will kill you period.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-10-02 at 08:20 AM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  12. #1132
    I edited my text. Vengeance doesn't matter. Once you surpass the stamina part on the barrier formula the values flat out on a percentage that is based on your armor reduction. You are right for armor reduction but Sco is already at 63% with ilvl 570.

    If you assume 62% armor reduction (even I have nearly 61%) your barrier values will be 42%, 84% and 126%. That is not a big difference.

    200k Vengeance scenario:


    The benefit of Shield Barrier is that you "could" spend 80rage per 6 seconds on defense. Shield Block cannot do this for you. You can only spend 60rage per 6 seconds (with later gaps of 3 seconds). The more rage you have left over the better Shield Barrier becomes damage taken wise.

    What you want to use depends on the encounter your are playing, the build you are playing (avoidance vs. mastery) and the situation your are currently at health-wise (big hit incoming?, etc).
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-10-02 at 08:53 AM.
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  13. #1133
    Btw that 85k was against a lvl 90 target a boss level target (93) would require 108.4k armor to get a 65% reduction.
    Your 70k armor against a 93 target would merely provide a ~ 55% damage reduction.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  14. #1134
    Can you post the formula for that? I know that miss/parry/dodge change by 1.5 per level but how do you calculate armor reduction?

    What you wrote would have quite an impact on Shield Barrier (for physical damage, aka damage affected by armor reduction).
    Last edited by zorker; 2013-10-02 at 11:23 AM.
    | Simple is beautiful.
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    "I wonder what the non-pathetic people are doing tonight?" - Rajesh Koothrappali (The Big Bang Theory)

  15. #1135
    DR% = Armor / (Armor + 400 + 85 * AttackerLevel + (4.5 * (AttackerLevel -59)) + (20 * (AttackerLevel - 80)) + (22 * (AttackerLevel - 85)); )
    Simplified, the formula becomes: DR% = Armor / (Armor + (467.5 * AttackerLevel - 22167.5))

    shameless copied from, http://wowpedia.org/Armor
    Only make passive aggressive posts when it doesn't make you look like a dumbass.

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  16. #1136
    http://wowpedia.org/Armor
    lvl 90 138,773 armor 75%
    lvl 93 175,110 armor 75%
    so what does 75% armor reduction mean? It means you only take 25% or 1/4 of damage thus your EH is 400% of what it was.
    This means that 175110 armor increases your EH by 300% or 175110/3 (some 57kish) increases your EH by 100% (and is thus equal to the base armor against a 93 target)

    Then you calculate 1 - base/(base + 70k) to see how much damage reduction you get at 70k armor.
    Or you calculate base/.35 to find out how much 'total' armor you need for 65% reduction or (base/.35)-base to find out how much actual armor you need.

    More stuff:
    going from 60% to 64% damage reduction means going from 40% to 36% damage taken which is a damage reduction of 10% or in other words you need 1(1-.1) -1 = 1/9 ~11% more total armor (that is from your current armor plus the 50kish base) to get from 60 to 64% (which is more than 10k armor)
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  17. #1137
    Warrior
    Class Armor
    Tier-16 Protection 2-piece set bonus should no longer be healing the Warrior before the damage has been applied.
    - 5.4 Hotfixes: October 2

    Great news, it seems the bug has been fixed.
    Warrior soloing spreadsheet.

    Ittle Dew (Any%): 12:13
    Super Meat Boy (Any%): 21:50

  18. #1138
    Great job everyone. if we hadnt caught that it may have never been fixed.

  19. #1139
    Re barrier vs block: I run block unless it is on cd or I have just taken a large spike or the non blockable damage starts to way exceed the blockable damage. This is an aspect of prot warriors that make us so fun. It is not mindless blackout kick spam. We can make decisions during the fight with trade offs. Same with our gearing. There is no cookie cutter way to play prot in 5.4. Just communicate with your healers. Prot is in a great place with play style, raid utility, dtps, and dps.

  20. #1140
    Thanks for the insight zorker. It appears that for avoidance builds, barrier comes ahead, but block is still very valuable.

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