[5.4] Protection Warrior

[Deleted]

It's not really a bug tbh - he doesn't melee, just spams Hew. The more annoying part is that dodged or parried Hews don't give vengeance, so if you go avoidance you both have low crit and low vengeance for Skeer.

Rikal doesn't give it either :<

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Is the simc TMI standard boss values bugged ?
T1610H is ~440k vengeance which doesn't seem right.

Eddy, when you say proper rotation, im guessing the one in simc(build 4) is not optimal ?
Can't we just sticky this thread until a proper guide comes out (if it does) ? It's pretty much de facto prot thread anyways

Was the paragons riposte bug fixed ?

TMI seems to have a very random variable on Simcraft for some reason yeah

Trouble with simcraft is that it spams barrier too much and doesn't use heroic strike optimally, with a bit of tweaking with the priority you can easily increase DPS by around 30% on Simcraft

[Tehpounderer]

Trouble with simcraft is that it spams barrier too much and doesn't use heroic strike optimally, with a bit of tweaking with the priority you can easily increase DPS by around 30% on Simcraft

Eddy could you suggest some improvements to the default APL, please? It used to be terrible but I went to some trouble to improve it in the latest release (540-4). The only thing I know of that is obviously wrong at the moment is the reference to the armor potion (although some might debate this) and the ridiculous conditional on Blood Fury referencing Colossus Smash (but shouldnt really be an issue since it will never hit this conditional). The dps cooldowns could be re-organized to be more optimal but I don't see a 30% improvement.

If there are things that should be changed to increase dps by 30% please share so we can improve it.

[Promdates]

Rikal doesn't give it either :<

The trick with Rikal is to not stop the Injections, and just let it start stacking on you. I was doing it last night and it was giving me 230k+ vengeance on my monk. Granted on normal there really isn't a reason to let the injections fade off you and release the parasites, but on heroic there is. So there is a way to at least gain vengeance tanking that boss itself. Can't say there's a way with the others.

[Deleted]

The trick with Rikal is to not stop the Injections, and just let it start stacking on you. I was doing it last night and it was giving me 230k+ vengeance on my monk. Granted on normal there really isn't a reason to let the injections fade off you and release the parasites, but on heroic there is. So there is a way to at least gain vengeance tanking that boss itself. Can't say there's a way with the others.

On 10 heroic I sometimes fucked it up and had to let it urn for half of rik'kals health that gave me 300-400k vengeance

[Deleted]

Since Blackfuse is the popular encounter now on the thread... have you guys really been using Stormbolt on him? Yes, stack burst, and all that. But look at logs of people using it (almost everyone and his mother, taking one of the first on wordoflogs):

23:07:08.663] Automated Shredder gains Death From Above from Automated Shredder
[23:07:09.635] Vakaria Storm Bolt Automated Shredder 515490
[23:07:11.599] Vakaria Dragon Roar Automated Shredder Immune
[23:07:11.599] Vakaria casts Dragon Roar
[23:07:11.850] Vakaria Dragon Roar Automated Shredder *4706040*

Bloodbath seems to outshine it brutally, only the 6 secs tick for Dragon Roar already outdoes the damage of Storm Bolt (and done at the first gcd, it will tick fully before a new overload). That's without adding the previous ticks you got from Bloodbath, the GCD you use instead of Storm Bolt, and the rest of ticks of skills you fit into the burst. We do scale horridly with weapon damage. Don't know why everyone went with that talent.

[Warriorsarri]

You can use StormBolt just before the shredder gain the buff, as it has a travel time, meaning you can fit an extra global inside the damage bonus window.

[Deleted]

And even so... will it outweight Bloodbath? I was disregarding the GCD you replaced Storm Bolt with and the additional ticks from other hits, and it was breaken even "if" Storm Bolt would have critted.

[Gliff]

I used avatar. It worked well killing the Shredder with low stacks.

[Deleted]

Has anyone brought paragons bugs to blizzards attention ?
not giving vengeance this long after release is just insane.
only noticed horrible uptime on riposte, still had ~96% vengeance, cant remember what i tanked.

Tehpounderer, not sure if your the right person to ask, but could you check if the TMI profiles (specially T16H10) is correct ? Not often I have ~440k veng and the custom only gives 120k. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Theck had messed up a decimal or something and it would be corrected in an upcoming build, but not 100% sure.

Eddy, would be awesome if you could share your beast APL, 30% is no little increase

[Deleted]

The trick with Rikal is to not stop the Injections, and just let it start stacking on you. I was doing it last night and it was giving me 230k+ vengeance on my monk. Granted on normal there really isn't a reason to let the injections fade off you and release the parasites, but on heroic there is. So there is a way to at least gain vengeance tanking that boss itself. Can't say there's a way with the others.

Exactly what I do :P

@SiegeCrafter I *did* try stormbolt for a bit but found using Bloodbath + Dragonroar to be vastly superior using a high stack strategy. It eventually gets to the point where you kill your shredder before Dragon Roar is up again and before it does death from above and you can then just dump that massive damage into the mines instead. Dragon Roar also lines up perfectly, 60 seconds, between each death from above so its the clear winner for me

Simcraft APL that I use which has a more realistic use of HS but does remove the usage of barrier so you can simply drop HS's for Barriers on Live;

actions.precombat+=/food,type=chun_tian_spring_rollsactions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/stance,choose=defensive
actions.precombat+=/battle_shout
actions.precombat+=/mogu_power_potion


actions=auto_attack
actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=(target.health.pct<20&buff.recklessness.up)|target.time_to_die<=25
actions+=/blood_fury,if=buff.bloodbath.up|(!talent.bloodbath.enabled&debuff.colossus_smash.up)
actions+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|buff.glyph_incite.up|rage>=rage.max-15
actions+=/berserker_rage,if=buff.enrage.down&rage<=rage.max-10
actions+=/shield_block
actions+=/shield_wall,if=incoming_damage_2500ms>health.max*0.6
actions+=/last_stand,if=incoming_damage_2500ms>health.max*0.6&buff.shield_wall.down
actions+=/run_action_list,name=dps_cds,if=buff.vengeance.value>health.max*0.20
actions+=/run_action_list,name=normal_rotation


actions.dps_cds=avatar,if=talent.avatar.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/bloodbath,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/blood_fury
actions.dps_cds+=/dragon_roar,if=talent.dragon_roar.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/shattering_throw
actions.dps_cds+=/skull_banner
actions.dps_cds+=/recklessness
actions.dps_cds+=/storm_bolt,if=talent.storm_bolt.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/shockwave,if=talent.shockwave.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/bladestorm,if=talent.bladestorm.enabled
actions.dps_cds+=/run_action_list,name=normal_rotation


actions.normal_rotation=shield_slam
actions.normal_rotation+=/revenge
actions.normal_rotation+=/thunder_clap,if=glyph.resonating_power.enabled|target.debuff.weakened_blows.down
actions.normal_rotation+=/demoralizing_shout
actions.normal_rotation+=/impending_victory,if=talent.impending_victory.enabled
actions.normal_rotation+=/victory_rush,if=!talent.impending_victory.enabled
actions.normal_rotation+=/devastate

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If you want to be extremely scummy you could probably remove shattering throw from it as well :P Also this is without the undending rage glyph and if you had that, you could probably change;

actions+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|buff.glyph_incite.up|rage>=rage.max-15

to

actions+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|buff.glyph_incite.up|rage>=rage.max-30

[sirmo7]

guys

today i will start tanking first 3 bosses on HC (10 man)

any tips on how to maximize my dps and special things for warrior?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...adwar/advanced

[Damosapien]

avatar is bad, get rid of it.
i prefer having the thunder clap damage increase glyph to the 20+ rage, as i find you can use block as a dps cd to maximize the chance of getting 2 slams in one 6 second window, lessening the rage you need, and clap enters your single target rotation above devastate,
also depending on how good your healers are you can heroic strike whenever 90-100 rage, its a nice increase,
also if your only on the first 3 hc then wear a dps cloak, the proc is far better than the tank one that is wasted more often than not, or doesn't work the rest of the time.
also execute, alot.
these are of course dps centric, so if your having an issue with survival you probably shouldnt do a couple of these things

[Tehpounderer]

Tehpounderer, not sure if your the right person to ask, but could you check if the TMI profiles (specially T16H10) is correct ? Not often I have ~440k veng and the custom only gives 120k. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Theck had messed up a decimal or something and it would be corrected in an upcoming build, but not 100% sure.

540-5 of Simcraft is out. The TMI Boss melee and spell DOT values haven't been changed since 540-4. Here are the last changes Theck checked in and this (the right side) reflects the current state of the code.



You can see the original typo that I circled that was active in 540-3 where the spell DOT from the T1625H boss was hitting for 600,000 instead of 60,000.

The order of the values above correlates with this boss list: TMI_NONE, TMI_T15LFR, TMI_T15N, TMI_T15H, TMI_T16_10N, TMI_T16_25N, TMI_T16_10H, TMI_T16_25H so the T1610H values are the second from the end, i.e. melee of 1.9m on 1.5s swing timer and spell DOT of 85,000 I believe applied every 2 seconds. Also, be aware that the melee values are +/-10% so the actual values could be anywhere from 1.71m to 2.09m.

The TMI bosses are set up this way to allow for more accurate calculation of TMI and may not reflect what you will commonly see because most bosses don't simply melee and spell DOT. They stop meleeing at times to do other things, etc. The values do, however, reflect observed values from logs (according to Theck).

Finally, you can see this information in the Simcraft report. At the bottom, is a section for the boss. There is a subsection there called Abilities and you can see lots of information about each ability the boss used (see image below).



Hope this helps.

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Ran T1625H sims using Eddy's APL on 540-4. DPS increased from 591k to 616k. Heroic strikes went from 38 to 106. DTPS went from 75k to 141k due to the loss of barrier. Eddy, I assume you are NOT recommending I incorporate those changes into the current APL?

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Also, to be clear, I am not one of the Simcraft project members. I just keep an eye on what they are doing and harass them a lot, and I'm more than happy to bring them feedback from this group. I know some of the project members haunt this thread at times too.

[Deleted]

Well it depends on the fight in all honesty

The DTPS delta is so high just because of how simcraft is having that static dot at all times, in practice you will not see a change as drastic as that imho
Its a more offensive playstyle but still pretty damn strong on mitigation as it does enforce maximum shield block uptime and only dumps unnecessary rage into HS's

I think it would be nice to see the option for both, one for calculating an accurate TMI and one for actual DPS simulations

[Deleted]

Hello, a few questions from someone who never really bothered to delve deeper into tank stats mechanics.

1) How do diminishing returns from avoidance work? According to stochastics, amassing one stat at the expense of another would be a more feasible approach:
If I had 50% parry and 0% dodge, I would avoid all damage 50% of the time (50% hit chance * 100% hit chance = 50% hit chance), but if I had 25% each, I would only avoid all incoming damage 43,75% of the time (75% hit chance * 75% hit chance = 56,25% hit chance). Obviously I missed something, but what?

2) Would stacking mastery at the expense of dodge, while still retaining parry rating, work? That way, I'd benefit from
- the 2 t16 bonus due to mastery
- revenge glyph due to parry
- and still partially riposte
I would aim for at least 50% mastery (raid buffed) and 30-35% parry (before reduction due to higher boss levels) while neglecting dodge.
Since I assume people who put a lot more thought into tanking mechanics than me already thought of this and discarded it - what's the reason why this would be notably worse than going full avoidance?

[idefiler6]

You can get pretty close the 50% mastery raid-buffed without really stacking it. Otherwise yes it's fine to ignore dodge if you want to maximize HtR while keeping good riposte numbers. I'm around 40% mastery unbuffed just going for straight avoidance. If you want max gain from T16 then going full mastery would be your friend, I guess.

[Deleted]

1) How do diminishing returns from avoidance work? According to stochastics, amassing one stat at the expense of another would be a more feasible approach:
If I had 50% parry and 0% dodge, I would avoid all damage 50% of the time (50% hit chance * 100% hit chance = 50% hit chance), but if I had 25% each, I would only avoid all incoming damage 43,75% of the time (75% hit chance * 75% hit chance = 56,25% hit chance). Obviously I missed something, but what?

Just to complete, you are assuming that the game check two times whether the hit connected, one for parry and one for dodge. The game checks one time (imagine it rolls 1-100, 1-25 would be dodge, 26-50 parry, 50-100 hit. And once it hits, it checks whether it's a block or not).

[Tehpounderer]

Just to add on to this. Because block is on the second roll, stacking parry or dodge reduces the chance to get a block, thereby reducing the value of mastery.

[mongoose6]

DR works by decreasing the percentage base of avoidance you get with higher actual rating. ie (random numbers) If you're sitting at 500 parry rating, adding 100 more parry would give you 1% more parry chance but if you're sitting at 1000 parry rating, adding 100 more parry would only give you .5% parry chance. This is the reason you attempt to even out your dodge and parry. Having the ratings close to each other will result in more net avoidance percentage than having one much higher than the other.

[Tehpounderer]

Well it depends on the fight in all honesty

The DTPS delta is so high just because of how simcraft is having that static dot at all times, in practice you will not see a change as drastic as that imho
Its a more offensive playstyle but still pretty damn strong on mitigation as it does enforce maximum shield block uptime and only dumps unnecessary rage into HS's

I think it would be nice to see the option for both, one for calculating an accurate TMI and one for actual DPS simulations

I'll take a look at the bosses to see what can be done. Maybe melee with a spell nuke and a react conditional on barrier would favor your APL and be a more accurate model of what we see in the logs. I'll think on it and keep you posted if I come up with anything interesting.