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  1. #1921
    Quote Originally Posted by kaerthon View Post
    So, I'm working on Siegecrafter HC and I'm having trouble with killing my add..


    But seriously, I've just switched from Full avoidance to Mastery > Crit. We're only a few bosses deep in heroic progression ( 25m ) and since my guild is pretty casual I want to do my best to remain competitive but ultimately smooth the incoming damage ( hence the change ). Previously I was having no problems in normals parsing high on World of Logs, while staying alive.. Its been a fun patch . I'm pretty resourceful and have been looking around for guides, reading threads and whatnot, but I can't seem to find any concrete advice on how to approach the Mastery>Crit build.

    What I've tried thus far was looking up mastery>crit warriors on Proraiders, and using Simcraft. With Simcraft i'm having it return values on each stat, then plugging them in to AskMrRobot. Would you guys be able to point me to maybe a blogger, or maybe just confirm I'm doing this right before our raid next week.

    *edit* And yeah I haven't swapped the metagem yet. But the gear you see on my armory is all of my mastery/crit gear.
    Tank gemming mostly comes down to a combination of what level content you are doing in relation to your gear, how confident you are in your own skills, and how confident you are in your healers' skills. One example is siegecrafter, where you can very easily get way with dps gemming because tank survivability is really only in question at specific points of the fight (electro charge) and that's easily fixed by smart cooldown management. The extreme on the otherside of that is if you were one of those 2nd week of content release ToT progression guilds that got to Ra-den with a 520-530 ilevel and had to stack stamina to deal with the massive amounts of tank damage that he put out. I know its kind of a very situational example, but the point is that it's really up to your discretion with regards how much you think you can get away with. If you, and by extension your healers, feel comfortable with all crit vs all mastery, then there's no reason not to play full crit.
    Last edited by Jetjaguar; 2014-01-31 at 04:52 AM.
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    <WHATEVER WERE AWESOME> - 14/14 Heroic US 4th West 16th 25m Always Recruiting

  2. #1922
    Stood in the Fire
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    You can pretty much just blow all cds on the first add, second add should die easily with higher stacks. Then 3rd onwards you can blow the add up in melee instantly with the help from your other tank. You never need to reset stacks, you can let the dpsers get the first charge on pull You can be full parry gemmed, i dont really see point in mastery/crit. Full crit makes you too squishy to make up for the +5% ish up in damage.

    Prot warrior is so OP in siege adds that you shouldnt have problems if you execute it right. A common mistake i see is the addkiller standing ready for the add, then taunting it and trying to kill it.. I just tell them to stop tanking alltogether if theyre so daft trying to kill the add with zero vengeance

    This is 25man, dont know if the add is harder or easier on 10man.

  3. #1923
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    This is 25man, dont know if the add is harder or easier on 10man.
    10H: 17,798,982
    25H: 22,975,288

    So the add has just over 5m more hp on 25H compared to 10H, but you do have more vengeance going into it to make up for it.



  4. #1924
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    You can pretty much just blow all cds on the first add, second add should die easily with higher stacks. Then 3rd onwards you can blow the add up in melee instantly with the help from your other tank. You never need to reset stacks, you can let the dpsers get the first charge on pull You can be full parry gemmed, i dont really see point in mastery/crit. Full crit makes you too squishy to make up for the +5% ish up in damage.

    Prot warrior is so OP in siege adds that you shouldnt have problems if you execute it right. A common mistake i see is the addkiller standing ready for the add, then taunting it and trying to kill it.. I just tell them to stop tanking alltogether if theyre so daft trying to kill the add with zero vengeance

    This is 25man, dont know if the add is harder or easier on 10man.
    How does full crit make you squishy?

  5. #1925
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    How does full crit make you squishy?
    You lose about 35% avoidance? avoidance is RNG sure, but it makes you less squishy.

  6. #1926
    35% avoidance? I think you've overblown it a bit or you've been looking at the % you get before diminishing returns. Using the well known Mastery/Crit build that Fagatha uses versus your warriors build for an example.

    Mastery/Crit build:
    Fagatha

    Dodge: 8.97%
    Parry: 34.09%
    Avoidance: 43.06%
    Block: 26.24%
    Total: 69.3%

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gatha/advanced

    Riposte build:
    Cleaveandrun/Spacebubble

    Dodge: 16.31%
    Parry: 45.34%
    Avoidance: 61.65%
    Block: 19.87%
    Total: 81.62%

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ndrun/advanced

    Avoidance difference: 18.59%
    Avoidance + block diff: 12.32%

    Yes Fagatha is a NElf though your warrior is also a warrior who benefits from Mace spec so I've just left any racials out of it.

  7. #1927
    Has anybody got some info where I can find more out about a Crit and Mastery build for my Warrior tank? I'd love to look into it and give it a go, but can't find much helpful info on the net about it.

  8. #1928
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Avoidance difference: 18.59%
    Avoidance + block diff: 12.32%

    Yes Fagatha is a NElf though your warrior is also a warrior who benefits from Mace spec so I've just left any racials out of it.
    Ewwww those numbers....
    1) The difference is between getting hit 100-61.65% of the time vs 100-43.06% of the time -> that's about 33% less attacks hitting you.
    2) since block is on a second roll you can't just add them up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thychiz View Post
    Has anybody got some info where I can find more out about a Crit and Mastery build for my Warrior tank? I'd love to look into it and give it a go, but can't find much helpful info on the net about it.
    You equip gear that has crit and mastery on it and be done with it?
    But seriously why would you do that rather than just using the avoidance build °_°
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #1929
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Ewwww those numbers....
    1) The difference is between getting hit 100-61.65% of the time vs 100-43.06% of the time -> that's about 33% less attacks hitting you.
    2) since block is on a second roll you can't just add them up.

    - - - Updated - - -


    You equip gear that has crit and mastery on it and be done with it?
    But seriously why would you do that rather than just using the avoidance build °_°
    I don't think it's that simple.... gems come into play.... and I was asking if anybody had details on the pros, cons and recommended setup, so I could test it out for myself.
    Because mastery has it's merits, and i'd like to see if I can improve my dps since I have zero suitability issues O.o (Unlike mah squishy monk)
    Everyone on the internet has to be a critic... :/

    Edit - Might just copy Fagatha's gem / setup or as similar as possible, see how that goes. If it sucks whoopdy do, I wasted a few hundred g regemming and reforging..

  10. #1930
    I've gone crit/mastery on Siegecrafter and I got absolutely destroyed. It may not seen like a big difference but it is.

  11. #1931
    Quote Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
    I've gone crit/mastery on Siegecrafter and I got absolutely destroyed. It may not seen like a big difference but it is.
    How did you get destroyed?

  12. #1932
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    How did you get destroyed?
    Its basically 1/3 more chances to die through melee hits and siegecrafter and the add hit quite hard, which is way too much for progression boss. Atleast for a very minor dps up. If it even is any kind of up to go with a mix of crit/mastery.

  13. #1933
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Its basically 1/3 more chances to die through melee hits and siegecrafter and the add hit quite hard, which is way too much for progression boss. Atleast for a very minor dps up. If it even is any kind of up to go with a mix of crit/mastery.
    Melee hits aren't the problem though, it's the spike from the special abilities. Melee swings don't worry healers, they come at a repetitive time and damage.

  14. #1934
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Melee hits aren't the problem though, it's the spike from the special abilities. Melee swings don't worry healers, they come at a repetitive time and damage.
    Except that on this fight he enrages/frenzies, and his melee hits come in really quick succesion which will potentially kill you/get you low in order to take the debuff.

    I've never had to go crit/mastery (but I don't raid 10 man), so I can't comment on how squishy it is personally but I'd avoid going down a road where I take more damage at all costs generally.
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  15. #1935
    There is no benefit in going crit mastery at all in 10 man.

  16. #1936
    That's just one build. I go for the highest % of crit when riposte is active which is dodge/parry gear, crit/x gear, crit gems. Never had any survivability issues in 10m.

  17. #1937
    9 -14 SoO Hc progression here. I think mastery > avoidance / crit.
    Rage is only as valueable as many shield blocks / barriers you can push out. As long you have enough rage to keep shield block on cooldown and are able to use barrier when needed you actually do not need more rage. It is much better to reduce the incomming damage instead rather then get this little more rage that will just go into shield barrier. Which is in an avoidance case reduced to 0 damage instead.
    It is just like playing Arms and stack haste over crit and mastery. So you end up spending all that rage on heroic strikes anyways.

    And who says taking melee damage ain't important. If you check recount almost every boss has their melee damage on top.
    Ofcourse you might not die with the other builds. But really. With less spiky damage incomming you save your healers much better with reducing the times of using expensive catch up heals or give them more time keep attention to other things like mechanics or your team.

    Even the 2 set bonus screams to go mastery.
    High mastery gives you enough rage to keep block and barrier up. After that you can enhance your survival even further to take avoidance.
    And as said before. There is a small icd between enrages anyways.

    Yes i have been running avoidance for quite some time. And the burst you sometimes get is ridicilous. And those low mastery blocks aint gonna save that unparried/ dodged attacks. How many times you keep up block just to parry/ dodge everything and kind of waste your shielblock just to get some rng full swings in your face when it is on cooldown.
    Last edited by Pinka; 2014-02-02 at 11:53 PM.

  18. #1938
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinka View Post
    -snip-
    If you play well with Avoidance you're going to take less overall damage, not more. You're also going to be less spiky - barrier is going to be almost constantly up. Think about how the fight is going to pan out and plan accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinka View Post
    ust to parry/ dodge everything and kind of waste your shielblock just to get some rng full swings in your face when it is on cooldown.
    The point is to save some rage until it's down, where you Sbarr the unblocked hits. You should never spend those 3 seconds with nothing up if you can help it.
    Frozendruid of Temerity - 14/14HC @ 12 hours/week.

  19. #1939
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinka View Post
    How many times you keep up block just to parry/ dodge everything and kind of waste your shielblock just to get some rng full swings in your face when it is on cooldown.
    Except mastery is a lot worse than dodge/parry while shield block is down o0?
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  20. #1940
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Except mastery is a lot worse than dodge/parry while shield block is down o0?
    Both specs provide shield barrier to cover up that time. Avoidance is supported by its parry/ block during that time. And mastery with passive block.

    Checking out Askmrrobot.com
    From going to a mastery build to avoidance. I gain 9.61% avoidance but lose 37.35% mastery.
    In rough theory i would benefit from avoidance every 10 swings but from mastery every 3.

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