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  1. #21
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    However, the coding logistics of removing the GCD for the spell would be a nightmare
    I don't think so. The game already replaces Templar's Verdict with a different Templar's Verdict when 4T15 procs. All they'd have to do is use the same setup for a version of Divine Storm with no GCD.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Just make a minor change to the 4set:

    Paladin T16 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Damaging Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to proc a free Divine Storm.

    As in, 1/4 of the time, after casting a TV or DS, you get a free, instant, passive DS. No GCD, HoPo, or button press required.

    Sound OP? It's about as poweful as the Ele Sham mastery, and the advent of "damaging" to HoPo consumers means we cant game it with 1HoPo WOG/Inq's. This makes it great passive cleave (which we severely lack), and a minor boost to ST damage (which is already great).

    Plus, swirls.

    Oh, sh!t,

    I just correctly read the bonus.. or maybe You have it explained..!
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    Oh, sh!t,

    I just correctly read the bonus.. or maybe You have it explained..!
    Mine was a suggestion to make the current (proposed) t16 4pc suck less.

    It currently reads as "any finisher gives a 25% chance to make next DS free", which is very different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  4. #24
    I like the idea behind the 4 set bonus. However I think it needs to read like this,

    "Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free and do 50% more damage"

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Mine was a suggestion to make the current (proposed) t16 4pc suck less.

    It currently reads as "any finisher gives a 25% chance to make next DS free", which is very different.

    Yeah, I got confused yesterday night, and I was too stoned..

    And I was so excited, because Your suggestion made the 4s bonus so much more powerful and would help with AoE...
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  6. #26
    make it free and generate a holy power

  7. #27
    I strongly suspect they are 1) placeholder, 2) changing DS in some way to make it worthwhile (they expressed interest in bringing it back into the rotation with the t15 tier set review), 3) trolling.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeoniel View Post
    I strongly suspect they are 1) placeholder, 2) changing DS in some way to make it worthwhile (they expressed interest in bringing it back into the rotation with the t15 tier set review), 3) trolling.
    1) Well, its PTR; everything is placeholder :P
    2) Possible, they hinted that they need to return a niche to melee, since ranged just dominates pretty much all aspects. They suggested/spitballed giving melee far superior cleave as one way to do this. Plus they seem to think every Ret has a love affair with DS (not sure why they keep thinking this, given that we all complain about our shitty, clunky AOE).
    3) Also possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  9. #29
    Our AoE is decent under certain conditions. the problem is that on most fights, we don't get those conditions.

    our AoE needs a range buff. the only class which has worse AoE than us is hunters, and that's purely because they need a target to AoE.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  10. #30
    the bonuses look okay but if you compare them to other bonuses (like 5k haste on dk?) they are crap.
    they look like made for not interfere pvp and give some aoe.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsod View Post
    the bonuses look okay but if you compare them to other bonuses (like 5k haste on dk?) they are crap.
    they look like made for not interfere pvp and give some aoe.
    thing is, our AoE does not really requires a DPS buff. it requires a mechanics buff, as I said above.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  12. #32
    It looks like the set bonus is not final. Here's a blue post from the front page.

    "You're correct, the numbers on set bonuses are actually just place holders for the moment. At this time try focusing your feedback for set bonuses around the actual mechanics rather than the tuning of the numbers"
    So expect Divine Storm to do more damage or something on top of the mechanic.

  13. #33
    Considering Windwalker Monks have a 2-piece that causes Combo Breaker to generate Chi instead of using it, I can't see why they can't make this bonus something along the lines of:

    Your Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to cause your next Divine Storm to restore the Holy Power consumed.

    The Holy Power restored bit removes trying to game procs with 1 HP Inquisition refreshes and WoGs. The tier 5 talents would be very interesting with something like this. Can a Divine Purpose ability proc it? Will it get the 30% bonus from Holy Avenger? Would it even be worth using with Sanctified Wrath? The past two final tiers had set bonuses that altered/improved the playstyle of the class (DS Spin to Win mode/HP on Judgment), and a plain, boring Divine Storm doesn't come close to that.

    Or, now that I've thought for a few more minutes on it, let's borrow something from our Enhancement Shaman buddies:

    Divine Storm will now consume all current Censure stacks on a target, causing 100% additional weapon damage for each stack consumed.

    The weapon damage % is just a placeholder, but if they want Divine Storm in the single target rotation so badly - it better be damned good.
    Last edited by Vanderhuge; 2013-06-13 at 11:09 PM.

  14. #34
    really hope I can get heroic t15 4pc in time for 5.4, cause the t16 bonuses are pretty terrible.

    lets see, a double damage TV at a 40% proc chance off CS, or a free DS at a 25% proc chance when TV is used?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    the only class which has worse AoE than us is hunters, and that's purely because they need a target to AoE.
    Do you actually play this game? Or do you just spew garbage on forums constantly?

  16. #36
    Mechagnome
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    as for a couple posts up, yest DP CAN proc the 4 set, and the 4 set can also STEAL a DP proc it would seem from what i tested. as for the numbers just being place holders, it would not effect its usefulness that much unless it was an empowerment effect on DS that we have not seen yet. yet again, its been like 2-3 days since the PTR just launched so we have QUITE some time before its even set in stone.

  17. #37
    I wouldn't sell this bonus short on the face of it. Looking through the boss list there are a lot of add fights (including Garrosh) and the penultimate encounter is a council boss. DS may not beat CS or Exo on single target, but it sure beats HotR on cleave.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    thing is, our AoE does not really requires a DPS buff. it requires a mechanics buff, as I said above.
    Partly, so do we. HotR powah.. :/

  19. #39
    Mechagnome
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    for pure damage DS does in fact beat CS and judge in damage, you would not use it unless your already at 5 hp ( or 4 if they are on CD and your feeling lucky for procs) people seem to not notice that DS is PURE holy damage, AND procs our mastery. This means it gains power from INQ, and so does the mastery proc. as for pure 1-1 damage on GCDs, DS is stronger, but it gains no HP, which like i said is not an issue when your at 5 hp and getting massive DP+ 4 set procs to spam finishers all day. (hint its very common to get this because on a single finisher you have a 50% to get either one, if not both. and its very fun spamming TVs and Dss at 5 HP for 2 minutes straight.)

    TLDR: holy damage is win, don't discount it... EVER! OR THE TRUEST OF PALADINS WILL SMITE YOU!

  20. #40
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reghame View Post
    for pure damage DS does in fact beat CS and judge in damage, you would not use it unless your already at 5 hp ( or 4 if they are on CD and your feeling lucky for procs) people seem to not notice that DS is PURE holy damage, AND procs our mastery. This means it gains power from INQ, and so does the mastery proc. as for pure 1-1 damage on GCDs, DS is stronger, but it gains no HP, which like i said is not an issue when your at 5 hp and getting massive DP+ 4 set procs to spam finishers all day. (hint its very common to get this because on a single finisher you have a 50% to get either one, if not both. and its very fun spamming TVs and Dss at 5 HP for 2 minutes straight.)

    TLDR: holy damage is win, don't discount it... EVER! OR THE TRUEST OF PALADINS WILL SMITE YOU!
    blah blah blah blah Players don't need a ret 101 course. Comparing this tier T15 4 pieace is what we are doing and the dps drop is dramatic. That a huge issue that requires compensation or a stronger or equal bonus. Period.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 01:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    I wouldn't sell this bonus short on the face of it. Looking through the boss list there are a lot of add fights (including Garrosh) and the penultimate encounter is a council boss. DS may not beat CS or Exo on single target, but it sure beats HotR on cleave.
    To bad your "penultimate encounter" is all useless padding since the Paragons heal to full when one dies.

    We NEED to retain this Divine storm 4 set but it needs implemented far better then It currently is. Autofire? Off the GCD? Off the GCD and does 50% more damage? Consumes no HP but costs a GCD but the Damage is increased 100% or more?. We need to keep our options open and let developers know the bonus isn't terrible but the button needs to feel worthwhile to replace our current one with.

    Implementing this correctly will go a long ways on progression fights like Nazgrim and more importantly Garrosh since he is likely to be like HLK where you try to cleave the adds down while keeping the boss ontop of them. Cleave / dot classes are going to be highly desired for this fight. Make no mistake.

    For now I introduce my FAVORITE version of this tier set and pray everyone has enough decency to unite behind this and propose this to the development team.

    4 set~ When you use 3 HP you have a 40% chance to proc a free Divine storm and causes all targets hit to burn in righteous fire for 150% of the damage delt over 4 seconds.

    This keeps it mechanically intact and just tweaks the numbers and adds something inventive to the bland attack. I would like ANYONE to provide a better set bonus option because looking at our glaring weakness that is AoE. This keeps single target on par and turns one of our weaknesses into a huge strength.

    I'm also redirecting this discussion to the major thread so we can make some progress and come out of the PTR better then we went into it.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ycraft/page167
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-06-15 at 01:59 AM.

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